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trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

SeaFoam test
Original Message   Dec 26, 2009 11:52 am

   SeaForm makes many claims about what it can do. 

 

Injector cleaner

Carburetor cleaner

Carbon cleaner,

Fuel stabilizer

Frees lifters – rings

De-icer anti-jell

Upper cylinder lub

Dries oil and fuel

Cleans carbon as you drive.

Cures hesitations ,stalls, pings, and rough idle due to carbon buildup.

Cleans dirty engine part internally by removing harmful gums, varnish and carbon.  WORKS AND PERFORMS INSTANTLY. 

 

   That’s quite a versatile list of claims.  Given the repeated claim for carbon it should do something when contacting carbon.

 

  SeaFoam says 1 pint treats 25 gallons.  That’s a mix of 200 to 1.  If it can clean at that mix it should dissolve carbon easily at full strength.  Below is a picture of carbon put in a class with full strength SeaFrom for several hours with occasional shaking.  There is no breakup of the particles. 

 

   The other picture of a head and piston with carbon.  The loose carbon was wiped off and the rags dipped with SeaFoam and rubbed on the head and piston.  The rags are slightly discolored but not from dissolved particles.  The discolor is just picked up particles of carbon a rag without SeaFoam will pick up. 

 

   Given that it did not dissolve carbon full strength and would not remove carbon with a rag directly on a piston and head it seems doubtful that at a mix or 200 to 1 it will do very much rushing over the head and piston of an engine. 

 

   SeaFoam does not seem to do anything. What went wrong here?  No dissolved carbon in the glass and only slight smudging on the rags with no removal of carbon from the head or piston after rubbing.  What’s going on?  If it does not do anything at full strength how can it work at 200 to 1 where only slight fraction of the 200 to 1 mix will actually contact the carbon when an engine is running
This message was modified Dec 26, 2009 by trouts2
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mech12


Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Points: 273

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #4   Dec 26, 2009 4:54 pm
  HEAT  to work
JohnnyBoyUpNorth


Location: New Brunswick Canada
Joined: Dec 30, 2007
Points: 72

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #5   Dec 26, 2009 7:24 pm
I use it all the time. I have never used it the way you are though. This is the first negative press I've seen on Seafoam.

Contents under pressure....
mkd55


Location: wisconsin
Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Points: 155

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #6   Dec 26, 2009 7:32 pm
for years i never added anything to the gas on any of my small engines including my 1986 ariens 8 hp tecumseh snow thrower.infact i did very little maintenance to the snowthrower at all until about 5 yrs ago when the engine started running rough and it got harder to start.i've dabbled in carbs for 40 plus yrs and took the carb apart and cleaned it all up.i'm sure the biggest problem all these engines have is they are only used seasonal.the carb cleanout  helped to restore some of the running characteristics and thats all i did.i also had a fuel injected chevy truck that had a rough idle as time went by and the miles piled up.i put injector cleaner in the chevy and it cleared up within 10 miles of driving.point being i believe cleaners can be harmful if used the wrong way as well as helpfull to some extent in a lot of instances.this year i had a generator with a 3 1/2 hp briggs that after 15yrs of only being used during dear season approx 30 hrs usage per year started surging and running erratic.i tore the carb off and cleaned and blew everything out with compressed air.it started and ran somewhat better but still had the surging going on.i took the plug out and brought the piston up to top dead center and poured about 1/2 oz of seafoam right down the spark plug hole.i put the used plug back in and let the engine sit about 2 minutes.upon starting the engine it smoked for upwards of 5 minutes running at constant high rpm speed and as it was running i used a squirt bottle to spray seafoam into the carb to stumble it somewhat. after about 8 or 10 squirts in the carb throat the engine smoothed out and started to run at increased rpm without stumble.ran like it did when first bought! i put a volt meter in the ac plugin and reset the governor screw down from 128 volts to 124 volts.when i got all done i shut the engine down and pulled the plug to look at the piston top.the piston was hard to see any change because of the lighting but the used plug was as clean as could be,but not appearing brand new. i now started using seafoam in all my power equipment gas and believe that the benefit far outways the cost .i am fairly mechanically inclined and can do many maintenance choirs myself and for those that are not so inclined i believe they should be using somekind of fuel  additive to keep their equipment running up to par with less troublesome down time. one claim of seafoam that i find beneficial is that it has lubrication qualities and will not dry cylinder walls or rings if used in a spray application like  used above.everyone has had good and bad experiences with all kinds of products but seafoam has been a good experience and beneficial for my applications.
This message was modified Dec 26, 2009 by mkd55
sscotsman


Joined: Dec 3, 2009
Points: 56

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #7   Dec 26, 2009 9:08 pm
Here is my experience with seafoam..copied from my webpage:


Scot wrote:
Question 4.
February 2009
Carb leaking gas!


First repair needed!
I have owned the machine a month, and used it 4 times already!
and im sure there will still be more snow on the way..Here in Western NY, February is still
100% winter, (March is half winter and half spring, and April is 80% spring and 20% winter..real spring, with no danger of snow, isnt safely here until May..)

Sunday February 16th was a nice sunny day, about 32 degrees..so I wheeled the machine out into the driveway to lubricate some of the cables..I noticed the levers and cables on the handlebars were a bit dry, and could use some lubrication..that was all I was planning to do!

Well..after lubing up the cables, starting the machine a few times, and putting it back in the garage again..I suddenly had a gas leak! dripping right out of the carb!
aw man..what did I do??
I was simply oiling some cables! how can that go wrong??




I posted a question on  "The Best Snowblower & Lawnmower Forum"
and the guys there had all kinds of great advice and suggestions for me..
turns out it was a very easy fix!

click here. to read the thread on the forum.

thanks for the help guys!

I tried to work from the most "basic" fix to more advanced..if something basic didnt fix the problem, I would move on the next idea.

One likely cause of the leak was a stuck carb float..One of the guys suggested that sometimes a gentle tap with a hammer might "un-stick" the float..so I tried that first.
no good..still leaking..

So on to the next suggestion..sea foam.

Sea foam is a gas additive, comes from the boating hobby from what I understand.
it's supposed to have cleaning properties..

Considering I just bought the snowblower, and I really have no idea how it has been maintained over the last 40 years, a build-up of old gas varnish and gunk, causing the float to stick, is certaintly plausable..

So I added the seafoam..at first, I thought it was also a failure, because the leak continued for the first two runs..but after the third run, the leak stopped! and it has not returned!

So the seafoam actually fixed my carb leak! very cool..
The float must have been stuck, causing the leak, and the seafoam did in fact clean things up and "un stuck" the float! im going to use seafoam every winter from now on in this machine..
(or at least with the first tank of the season)..

So im glad that was an easy fix! :)
if that hadnt worked, I probably would have had to go for the full "disassemble the carb and clean it out" route..which I would have done if necessary..but im a firm believer in the "try the simple fixes first"..and if they work, then great! if not, just keep going..

Someday I might still have to disassemble that carb, but for now, I say: "if it aint broke dont
fix it"..its now running fine, so im going to leave it alone..

Status - fixed!

from: http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/Ariens/Page10.html

(sorry..I tried to make that text smaller..there seems to be no text-adjust feature on this forum)

personally, im sold on sea foam!
im convinced the seafoam cleaned up and un-stuck the sticky carb float..
leaking carb before seafoam..not leaking carb after seafoam..
could maybe be a coincidence..but I strongly doubt it..

and yes, it makes sense that seafoam would work properly at "working strength" mixed with gas..
also makes sense heat would be a factor..
trouts, why dont you repeat your cleaning test, but this time use the sea-foam as directed? not straight out of the bottle..
you might get different results!
its worth a shot..

Scot
This message was modified Dec 26, 2009 by sscotsman
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #8   Dec 27, 2009 10:29 am

SeaFoam, 1. Gas and diesel stablizer, de-icer, anti-jell, varnish cleaner, carbon cleaner, lubricant, cleans all internal parts by being added to fuel. 

Too many claims.  Too good to be true and it is supposed to do that by adding it to every 4th to 10th tank fill of your car gas.

 

When used directly on varnish it does nothing as in the carbon test.

 

Steve_Cebu, Amazer98, Borat, mech12, JohnnyBoyUpNorth.

   I would expect it do so something however mild in the carbon test.

 

Mkd55 - took the carb apart and cleaned it all up.i'm sure the biggest problem all these engines have is they are only used seasonal.the carb cleanout  helped to restore some of the running characteristics and thats all

   That should be enough to run right so no need of additives.

 

Mkd55 - i put injector cleaner in the chevy and it cleared up within 10 miles of driving.point being i believe cleaners can be harmful if used the wrong way as well as helpfull to some extent in a lot of instances.this year

     Was that SeaFoam or a dedicated injector product?  I ran an 84 VW Rabbit for 280K and occasionally put in an injector cleaner or Mystery Oil occasionally.  Never noticed anything. 

 

Mkd55 - started surging and running erratic.i tore the carb off and cleaned and blew everything out with compressed air.it started and ran somewhat better but still had the surging going on.

   The cure for surging is cleaning the carb, occasionally a gov tweak..

 

Mkd55 - i took the plug out and brought the piston up to top dead center and poured about 1/2 oz of seafoam right down the spark plug hole.i put the used plug back in and let

   Seems like a weird way to clean a plug and I also don’t believe it.

 

Mkd55 - after about 8 or 10 squirts in the carb throat the engine smoothed out and started to run at increased rpm without stumble.ran like it did when first bought!

   8-10 squirts of SeaFoam through the throat to cure a surge. I don’t buy that it was due to SeaFrom. 

 

Mkd55 -  using seafoam in all my power equipment gas and believe that the benefit far outways the cost

   Rebuilding a carb and taking care of seasonal maintenance like taking out the gas during the off seasons keeps my stuff going without the cost of additives.

 

 

.Mkd55 & - one claim of seafoam that i find beneficial is that it has lubrication qualities

sscotsman - causing the float to stick

   SeaFoam does seem oily and may have a lub benefit but if a carb is acting up I want to nail it for sure so remove it and clean it.  In a moment of weakness I did try SeaFrom on what I thought was a sticking needle problem.  It did not help.  I took the carb off twice to refit the seat but the problem did not cure.  The third time I changed the needle and seat and it cured.

 

   For carbon buildup the only reliable thing I’ve found is to remove the head and go at it.  I’ve gone through three cans of SeaFoam and I can’t say it does anything useful.  That’s discounting whatever claims for being a stabilizer as I always use fresh gas, use gas shutoffs and drain equipment when not in use.  That seems to work reliably.

 

mkd55


Location: wisconsin
Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Points: 155

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #9   Dec 27, 2009 10:38 am
all i'm saying is i have good results using seafoam.until a few years ago never heard of it!   could i get along without it?  yes!  i am 59 yrs old and have done without seafoam for at least 55 of them.everyone makes there own evaluations and decides from them.for me seafoam has been a good product.
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #10   Dec 27, 2009 11:42 am
Yo Trouts: You didn't answer my questions. Is the method you used to "test SeaFoam" the method recommended for use by the manufacturer? I agree that SeaFoam manufacturers make some pretty lofty claims and I applaud your willingness to determine if in fact it is effective. However, you methodology isn't consistent with product instructions. Now, I'm not one for snake oils. I have sampled a few different products for both gasoline and diesel engines. From my experience, the best product for cleaning diesel fuel injectors is Siloo diesel fuel conditioner. I know for a fact that works. I have a Kubota diesel generator that's been in service at my camp for 27 years. After ten years or so it became difficult to start. One bottle of Siloo later and the engine is running like the day I bought it. Getting back to SeaFoam. If used as per directions, I have had good results using it. It's not a miracle worker and won't cure most problems. However, I've used it on two stroke engines and it "seemed" to improve the running of at least a couple engines. I have a 30 year old Jiffy ice auger with a diaphragm carb that I hadn't used in ten years or so because it was running so poorly. Hard to start, and reluctant to spin to max rpms. Accordingly, it was put away in the garage and I had I stopped ice fishing anyway. We had quite a few days of rain this year so, I used that time to work on some engines that were acting up. I clamped down the Jiffy power head into a Work Mate bench, put some fuel and rich mix of SeaFoam into the tank, pulled the plug, sprayed some fuel into the cylinder to get it started and sprayed a mixture of two stroke fuel and SeaFoam into the carb to keep the engine running. I alternately sprayed pure SeaFoam into it. After a few minutes, the engine began to smooth out and ran from the fuel in the tank. I gave it a big blast of SeaFoam to stall it and let it sit over night. Fired it up the next day and It was smoking pretty good for a minute or two then cleared up. I cannot definitely say that the SeaFoam treatment cured the problem. What I will say though, is that the engine ran crappy before the treatment and much better afterward. I suspect the SeaFoam may have cleaned up some varnish in the carb. I don't expect SeaFoam to fix a bad carb. If it does, good. There is no substitute for disassembly, inspection and cleaning if a carb is not working properly. I use SeaFoam mostly for preventative measures and primarily as a fuel conditioner. I don't use tons of it and it may be more of a mental exercise, but from my experience it seems to have some redeeming value.
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #11   Dec 27, 2009 2:49 pm

Borat: You didn't answer my questions.

The point of the question was unrelated to the question so why would I?

 

Borat: I have a 30 year old Jiffy ice auger with a diaphragm carb that I hadn't used in ten years or so because

Borat:

I cannot definitely say that the SeaFoam treatment cured the problem.

A reasonable conclusion which many don’t arrive at. The usual is someone dumped in some SeaFoam and the problem went away so it must have been SeaFoam.  You’ve probably has more minor problems clear up on their own than with SeaFoam.

 

Borat:

I cannot definitely say that the SeaFoam treatment cured the problem

Right, that would take lots of similar tests which most people even in shops do not have the time to do, like get an engine with known conditions, run SeaFoam for long periods and unbutton things to see what it did.  The one shot miracle cure stories are just not worth anything.

 

Borat: What I will say though, is that the engine ran crappy before the treatment and much better afterward.

That happened but cause and effect…..

 

Borat: I suspect the SeaFoam may have cleaned up some varnish in the carb.

Having highly diluted SeaFoam in gas does nothing for varnish (several types) from my tests. Try it full strength or diluted in any ratio on the next nasty carb bowl you come across and see for yourself.

 

Borat: There is no substitute for disassembly, inspection and cleaning if a carb is not working properly.

Right, so no need for any stabilizers if you buy gas in small quantities and use it up.

 

Borat: I use SeaFoam mostly for preventative measures and primarily as a fuel conditioner.

I’m interested in the product claims for carbon and varnish which I think are useless.  I have doubts about it’s claims as a stabilizer for removing moisture.  I guess you could try putting some in a glass jar at 200:1 and spray a fine mist of water in to see what happens.

 

For carbon and varnish the stuff is useless.  As a stabilizer I doubt it.  As a lub it might have some effect, unsure and hard to tell like using Mystery oil.

 

The can label reads like snake oil and I’m embarrassed I ever bought that crap.

JohnnyBoyUpNorth


Location: New Brunswick Canada
Joined: Dec 30, 2007
Points: 72

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #12   Dec 27, 2009 3:22 pm
If you don't want it, send it to me :-)

Contents under pressure....
sscotsman


Joined: Dec 3, 2009
Points: 56

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #13   Dec 27, 2009 4:33 pm
Trouts,
your last post is difficult to follow..
I know you are trying to quote people and then reply to those quotes,
but in your last post I cant always tell where Borat is speaking and where you are speaking..its all mixed together..

apart from that, the simple fact remains that your first post in this thread is a completely invalid test..its meaningless..
which makes your conclusions meaningless..
because you didnt use the seafoam properly..
its a useless test..its tells us nothing..
you really need to use the proper mixture, then run some more tests..otherwise you got nothing..

sorry..but its just a fact..

Scot
This message was modified Dec 27, 2009 by sscotsman
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