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trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

SeaFoam test
Original Message   Dec 26, 2009 11:52 am

   SeaForm makes many claims about what it can do. 

 

Injector cleaner

Carburetor cleaner

Carbon cleaner,

Fuel stabilizer

Frees lifters – rings

De-icer anti-jell

Upper cylinder lub

Dries oil and fuel

Cleans carbon as you drive.

Cures hesitations ,stalls, pings, and rough idle due to carbon buildup.

Cleans dirty engine part internally by removing harmful gums, varnish and carbon.  WORKS AND PERFORMS INSTANTLY. 

 

   That’s quite a versatile list of claims.  Given the repeated claim for carbon it should do something when contacting carbon.

 

  SeaFoam says 1 pint treats 25 gallons.  That’s a mix of 200 to 1.  If it can clean at that mix it should dissolve carbon easily at full strength.  Below is a picture of carbon put in a class with full strength SeaFrom for several hours with occasional shaking.  There is no breakup of the particles. 

 

   The other picture of a head and piston with carbon.  The loose carbon was wiped off and the rags dipped with SeaFoam and rubbed on the head and piston.  The rags are slightly discolored but not from dissolved particles.  The discolor is just picked up particles of carbon a rag without SeaFoam will pick up. 

 

   Given that it did not dissolve carbon full strength and would not remove carbon with a rag directly on a piston and head it seems doubtful that at a mix or 200 to 1 it will do very much rushing over the head and piston of an engine. 

 

   SeaFoam does not seem to do anything. What went wrong here?  No dissolved carbon in the glass and only slight smudging on the rags with no removal of carbon from the head or piston after rubbing.  What’s going on?  If it does not do anything at full strength how can it work at 200 to 1 where only slight fraction of the 200 to 1 mix will actually contact the carbon when an engine is running
This message was modified Dec 26, 2009 by trouts2
Replies: 1 - 43 of 43View as Outline
Steve_Cebu


Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Points: 888

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #1   Dec 26, 2009 1:23 pm
I've heard good and bad about SeaFoam. The Toro/Ariens local dealer reccomended it to me.

Honda reccomends StarTron Engine treatment which is an enzyme. I have no idea how well it works in the long term, since I just started using it and it's not cheap at $11 per bottle which is good for about 200+ gallons. But time will tell. I guess they use it in snowmobiles a lot. It sounds like the SeaFoam doesn't work. I'll avoid buying it for sure.

"If you have more miles on your snow blower than your car, you live in New England."  "If you can drive 75 mph through 2 feet of snow during a raging blizzard without flinching, you live in New England."
amazer98


Joined: Dec 7, 2009
Points: 46

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #2   Dec 26, 2009 2:25 pm
Could it be that this stuff is designed to work with gasoline as a key ingredient?  Using it full strength with no gas doesn't necessarily mean that it won't work when mixed correctly.
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #3   Dec 26, 2009 2:31 pm
Just curious Trouts. Is that the prescribed method of use for SeaFoam? Isn't fuel and combustion required to make it effective?
mech12


Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Points: 273

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #4   Dec 26, 2009 4:54 pm
  HEAT  to work
JohnnyBoyUpNorth


Location: New Brunswick Canada
Joined: Dec 30, 2007
Points: 72

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #5   Dec 26, 2009 7:24 pm
I use it all the time. I have never used it the way you are though. This is the first negative press I've seen on Seafoam.

Contents under pressure....
mkd55


Location: wisconsin
Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Points: 155

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #6   Dec 26, 2009 7:32 pm
for years i never added anything to the gas on any of my small engines including my 1986 ariens 8 hp tecumseh snow thrower.infact i did very little maintenance to the snowthrower at all until about 5 yrs ago when the engine started running rough and it got harder to start.i've dabbled in carbs for 40 plus yrs and took the carb apart and cleaned it all up.i'm sure the biggest problem all these engines have is they are only used seasonal.the carb cleanout  helped to restore some of the running characteristics and thats all i did.i also had a fuel injected chevy truck that had a rough idle as time went by and the miles piled up.i put injector cleaner in the chevy and it cleared up within 10 miles of driving.point being i believe cleaners can be harmful if used the wrong way as well as helpfull to some extent in a lot of instances.this year i had a generator with a 3 1/2 hp briggs that after 15yrs of only being used during dear season approx 30 hrs usage per year started surging and running erratic.i tore the carb off and cleaned and blew everything out with compressed air.it started and ran somewhat better but still had the surging going on.i took the plug out and brought the piston up to top dead center and poured about 1/2 oz of seafoam right down the spark plug hole.i put the used plug back in and let the engine sit about 2 minutes.upon starting the engine it smoked for upwards of 5 minutes running at constant high rpm speed and as it was running i used a squirt bottle to spray seafoam into the carb to stumble it somewhat. after about 8 or 10 squirts in the carb throat the engine smoothed out and started to run at increased rpm without stumble.ran like it did when first bought! i put a volt meter in the ac plugin and reset the governor screw down from 128 volts to 124 volts.when i got all done i shut the engine down and pulled the plug to look at the piston top.the piston was hard to see any change because of the lighting but the used plug was as clean as could be,but not appearing brand new. i now started using seafoam in all my power equipment gas and believe that the benefit far outways the cost .i am fairly mechanically inclined and can do many maintenance choirs myself and for those that are not so inclined i believe they should be using somekind of fuel  additive to keep their equipment running up to par with less troublesome down time. one claim of seafoam that i find beneficial is that it has lubrication qualities and will not dry cylinder walls or rings if used in a spray application like  used above.everyone has had good and bad experiences with all kinds of products but seafoam has been a good experience and beneficial for my applications.
This message was modified Dec 26, 2009 by mkd55
sscotsman


Joined: Dec 3, 2009
Points: 56

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #7   Dec 26, 2009 9:08 pm
Here is my experience with seafoam..copied from my webpage:


Scot wrote:
Question 4.
February 2009
Carb leaking gas!


First repair needed!
I have owned the machine a month, and used it 4 times already!
and im sure there will still be more snow on the way..Here in Western NY, February is still
100% winter, (March is half winter and half spring, and April is 80% spring and 20% winter..real spring, with no danger of snow, isnt safely here until May..)

Sunday February 16th was a nice sunny day, about 32 degrees..so I wheeled the machine out into the driveway to lubricate some of the cables..I noticed the levers and cables on the handlebars were a bit dry, and could use some lubrication..that was all I was planning to do!

Well..after lubing up the cables, starting the machine a few times, and putting it back in the garage again..I suddenly had a gas leak! dripping right out of the carb!
aw man..what did I do??
I was simply oiling some cables! how can that go wrong??




I posted a question on  "The Best Snowblower & Lawnmower Forum"
and the guys there had all kinds of great advice and suggestions for me..
turns out it was a very easy fix!

click here. to read the thread on the forum.

thanks for the help guys!

I tried to work from the most "basic" fix to more advanced..if something basic didnt fix the problem, I would move on the next idea.

One likely cause of the leak was a stuck carb float..One of the guys suggested that sometimes a gentle tap with a hammer might "un-stick" the float..so I tried that first.
no good..still leaking..

So on to the next suggestion..sea foam.

Sea foam is a gas additive, comes from the boating hobby from what I understand.
it's supposed to have cleaning properties..

Considering I just bought the snowblower, and I really have no idea how it has been maintained over the last 40 years, a build-up of old gas varnish and gunk, causing the float to stick, is certaintly plausable..

So I added the seafoam..at first, I thought it was also a failure, because the leak continued for the first two runs..but after the third run, the leak stopped! and it has not returned!

So the seafoam actually fixed my carb leak! very cool..
The float must have been stuck, causing the leak, and the seafoam did in fact clean things up and "un stuck" the float! im going to use seafoam every winter from now on in this machine..
(or at least with the first tank of the season)..

So im glad that was an easy fix! :)
if that hadnt worked, I probably would have had to go for the full "disassemble the carb and clean it out" route..which I would have done if necessary..but im a firm believer in the "try the simple fixes first"..and if they work, then great! if not, just keep going..

Someday I might still have to disassemble that carb, but for now, I say: "if it aint broke dont
fix it"..its now running fine, so im going to leave it alone..

Status - fixed!

from: http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/Ariens/Page10.html

(sorry..I tried to make that text smaller..there seems to be no text-adjust feature on this forum)

personally, im sold on sea foam!
im convinced the seafoam cleaned up and un-stuck the sticky carb float..
leaking carb before seafoam..not leaking carb after seafoam..
could maybe be a coincidence..but I strongly doubt it..

and yes, it makes sense that seafoam would work properly at "working strength" mixed with gas..
also makes sense heat would be a factor..
trouts, why dont you repeat your cleaning test, but this time use the sea-foam as directed? not straight out of the bottle..
you might get different results!
its worth a shot..

Scot
This message was modified Dec 26, 2009 by sscotsman
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #8   Dec 27, 2009 10:29 am

SeaFoam, 1. Gas and diesel stablizer, de-icer, anti-jell, varnish cleaner, carbon cleaner, lubricant, cleans all internal parts by being added to fuel. 

Too many claims.  Too good to be true and it is supposed to do that by adding it to every 4th to 10th tank fill of your car gas.

 

When used directly on varnish it does nothing as in the carbon test.

 

Steve_Cebu, Amazer98, Borat, mech12, JohnnyBoyUpNorth.

   I would expect it do so something however mild in the carbon test.

 

Mkd55 - took the carb apart and cleaned it all up.i'm sure the biggest problem all these engines have is they are only used seasonal.the carb cleanout  helped to restore some of the running characteristics and thats all

   That should be enough to run right so no need of additives.

 

Mkd55 - i put injector cleaner in the chevy and it cleared up within 10 miles of driving.point being i believe cleaners can be harmful if used the wrong way as well as helpfull to some extent in a lot of instances.this year

     Was that SeaFoam or a dedicated injector product?  I ran an 84 VW Rabbit for 280K and occasionally put in an injector cleaner or Mystery Oil occasionally.  Never noticed anything. 

 

Mkd55 - started surging and running erratic.i tore the carb off and cleaned and blew everything out with compressed air.it started and ran somewhat better but still had the surging going on.

   The cure for surging is cleaning the carb, occasionally a gov tweak..

 

Mkd55 - i took the plug out and brought the piston up to top dead center and poured about 1/2 oz of seafoam right down the spark plug hole.i put the used plug back in and let

   Seems like a weird way to clean a plug and I also don’t believe it.

 

Mkd55 - after about 8 or 10 squirts in the carb throat the engine smoothed out and started to run at increased rpm without stumble.ran like it did when first bought!

   8-10 squirts of SeaFoam through the throat to cure a surge. I don’t buy that it was due to SeaFrom. 

 

Mkd55 -  using seafoam in all my power equipment gas and believe that the benefit far outways the cost

   Rebuilding a carb and taking care of seasonal maintenance like taking out the gas during the off seasons keeps my stuff going without the cost of additives.

 

 

.Mkd55 & - one claim of seafoam that i find beneficial is that it has lubrication qualities

sscotsman - causing the float to stick

   SeaFoam does seem oily and may have a lub benefit but if a carb is acting up I want to nail it for sure so remove it and clean it.  In a moment of weakness I did try SeaFrom on what I thought was a sticking needle problem.  It did not help.  I took the carb off twice to refit the seat but the problem did not cure.  The third time I changed the needle and seat and it cured.

 

   For carbon buildup the only reliable thing I’ve found is to remove the head and go at it.  I’ve gone through three cans of SeaFoam and I can’t say it does anything useful.  That’s discounting whatever claims for being a stabilizer as I always use fresh gas, use gas shutoffs and drain equipment when not in use.  That seems to work reliably.

 

mkd55


Location: wisconsin
Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Points: 155

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #9   Dec 27, 2009 10:38 am
all i'm saying is i have good results using seafoam.until a few years ago never heard of it!   could i get along without it?  yes!  i am 59 yrs old and have done without seafoam for at least 55 of them.everyone makes there own evaluations and decides from them.for me seafoam has been a good product.
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #10   Dec 27, 2009 11:42 am
Yo Trouts: You didn't answer my questions. Is the method you used to "test SeaFoam" the method recommended for use by the manufacturer? I agree that SeaFoam manufacturers make some pretty lofty claims and I applaud your willingness to determine if in fact it is effective. However, you methodology isn't consistent with product instructions. Now, I'm not one for snake oils. I have sampled a few different products for both gasoline and diesel engines. From my experience, the best product for cleaning diesel fuel injectors is Siloo diesel fuel conditioner. I know for a fact that works. I have a Kubota diesel generator that's been in service at my camp for 27 years. After ten years or so it became difficult to start. One bottle of Siloo later and the engine is running like the day I bought it. Getting back to SeaFoam. If used as per directions, I have had good results using it. It's not a miracle worker and won't cure most problems. However, I've used it on two stroke engines and it "seemed" to improve the running of at least a couple engines. I have a 30 year old Jiffy ice auger with a diaphragm carb that I hadn't used in ten years or so because it was running so poorly. Hard to start, and reluctant to spin to max rpms. Accordingly, it was put away in the garage and I had I stopped ice fishing anyway. We had quite a few days of rain this year so, I used that time to work on some engines that were acting up. I clamped down the Jiffy power head into a Work Mate bench, put some fuel and rich mix of SeaFoam into the tank, pulled the plug, sprayed some fuel into the cylinder to get it started and sprayed a mixture of two stroke fuel and SeaFoam into the carb to keep the engine running. I alternately sprayed pure SeaFoam into it. After a few minutes, the engine began to smooth out and ran from the fuel in the tank. I gave it a big blast of SeaFoam to stall it and let it sit over night. Fired it up the next day and It was smoking pretty good for a minute or two then cleared up. I cannot definitely say that the SeaFoam treatment cured the problem. What I will say though, is that the engine ran crappy before the treatment and much better afterward. I suspect the SeaFoam may have cleaned up some varnish in the carb. I don't expect SeaFoam to fix a bad carb. If it does, good. There is no substitute for disassembly, inspection and cleaning if a carb is not working properly. I use SeaFoam mostly for preventative measures and primarily as a fuel conditioner. I don't use tons of it and it may be more of a mental exercise, but from my experience it seems to have some redeeming value.
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #11   Dec 27, 2009 2:49 pm

Borat: You didn't answer my questions.

The point of the question was unrelated to the question so why would I?

 

Borat: I have a 30 year old Jiffy ice auger with a diaphragm carb that I hadn't used in ten years or so because

Borat:

I cannot definitely say that the SeaFoam treatment cured the problem.

A reasonable conclusion which many don’t arrive at. The usual is someone dumped in some SeaFoam and the problem went away so it must have been SeaFoam.  You’ve probably has more minor problems clear up on their own than with SeaFoam.

 

Borat:

I cannot definitely say that the SeaFoam treatment cured the problem

Right, that would take lots of similar tests which most people even in shops do not have the time to do, like get an engine with known conditions, run SeaFoam for long periods and unbutton things to see what it did.  The one shot miracle cure stories are just not worth anything.

 

Borat: What I will say though, is that the engine ran crappy before the treatment and much better afterward.

That happened but cause and effect…..

 

Borat: I suspect the SeaFoam may have cleaned up some varnish in the carb.

Having highly diluted SeaFoam in gas does nothing for varnish (several types) from my tests. Try it full strength or diluted in any ratio on the next nasty carb bowl you come across and see for yourself.

 

Borat: There is no substitute for disassembly, inspection and cleaning if a carb is not working properly.

Right, so no need for any stabilizers if you buy gas in small quantities and use it up.

 

Borat: I use SeaFoam mostly for preventative measures and primarily as a fuel conditioner.

I’m interested in the product claims for carbon and varnish which I think are useless.  I have doubts about it’s claims as a stabilizer for removing moisture.  I guess you could try putting some in a glass jar at 200:1 and spray a fine mist of water in to see what happens.

 

For carbon and varnish the stuff is useless.  As a stabilizer I doubt it.  As a lub it might have some effect, unsure and hard to tell like using Mystery oil.

 

The can label reads like snake oil and I’m embarrassed I ever bought that crap.

JohnnyBoyUpNorth


Location: New Brunswick Canada
Joined: Dec 30, 2007
Points: 72

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #12   Dec 27, 2009 3:22 pm
If you don't want it, send it to me :-)

Contents under pressure....
sscotsman


Joined: Dec 3, 2009
Points: 56

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #13   Dec 27, 2009 4:33 pm
Trouts,
your last post is difficult to follow..
I know you are trying to quote people and then reply to those quotes,
but in your last post I cant always tell where Borat is speaking and where you are speaking..its all mixed together..

apart from that, the simple fact remains that your first post in this thread is a completely invalid test..its meaningless..
which makes your conclusions meaningless..
because you didnt use the seafoam properly..
its a useless test..its tells us nothing..
you really need to use the proper mixture, then run some more tests..otherwise you got nothing..

sorry..but its just a fact..

Scot
This message was modified Dec 27, 2009 by sscotsman
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #14   Dec 27, 2009 5:57 pm

Sscotsman:  All the tests are invalid.

 

Borat: I suspect the SeaFoam may have cleaned up some varnish in the carb.

Having highly diluted SeaFoam in gas does nothing for varnish (several types) from my tests. Try it full strength or diluted in any ratio on the next nasty carb bowl you come across and see for yourself.

 

The above was done at 200:1 and full strength with no result.  You can try it yourself and then come to a conclusion.   It is supposed to work flowing through the bowl and carb body where there is no heat or combustion. 

 

If you guess or assume that there is varnish or some other problem, run SeaFoam and things clear up and attribute it to SeaFram then you have made a mistake.

 

Dirt and dregs can be at the bottom of the bowl and not be sucked up when at idle or full speed no load.  When running under load the dregs can be sucked up to the jet holes enough to make the machine run poorly and stumble.  The dregs could lodge there or fall back down to the bottom of the bowl and not necessarily be picked up on the next run.  They might get trapped for a while and eventually make their way through the holes and running gets better.  Happens all the time.

 

Water could bead up in the bowl and cause rough running and stumbling.  The bulk of the water could get sucked up and the engine digest it stumbling then run fine.  There could be more water in the tank that slowly gets from the tank to the bowl causing intermittent stumbling again.  There are lots of conditions that happen and clear up on their own.
friiy


Location: Las Vegas, The Desert
Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Points: 600

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #15   Dec 27, 2009 6:56 pm
Hey guys,  I don't know if this is true...  I have nothing to back it up but what was told to me by a Vender for these products..

I was told that Seafoam, and other products Soften and leach into the carbon...  The carbon is then able to be burned or reduce in the normal combustion process ( over a period  of time) .   

As far as cleaning jets,   I believe you can clean things "harshly" or "softly"...  depending on how  fast you need the resultand at what cost to the equipment........   I won't use a wire wheel on a drill to clean stains off my teeth,   but I will use a toothbrush..

Friiy....

Hey Trouts,  If you want to get Carbon off a head or piston,  I suggest a $14 Harbour Freight mini air die grinder and a 3M Roloc disc ( blue or grey) ... Check them out

Friiy

mkd55


Location: wisconsin
Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Points: 155

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #16   Dec 27, 2009 7:35 pm
well lets see there is religion,political party ,war in iraq,illegal imigration,state,federal,and local property tax,global warming..........hmmmmm let's see...........have i missed anything else you want to share your opinion on  trout2...?
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #17   Dec 27, 2009 7:57 pm
Trouts: It would appear that you're digging your heals in regarding my question. I'll repeat the question. Did you use the product as per the manufacturer's instructions? Now, if that is irrelevant, I cannot quite understand your logic here. It's like buying a gallon of gasoline, putting it in the crankcase of the engine and claiming that it's crap because the car won't run. You have to use it according to instructions. I agree that the claims of all fuel additives are over-blown. However, I have had good things happen when I used SeaFoam. Whether it was co-incidental or the product may have actually worked, I cannot say for sure. In order to establish the true effectiveness of the product, numerous scientifically controlled tests would be required. Not to be insulting, but your test is no more valid than the results of my experiences with the product.
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #18   Dec 28, 2009 12:18 pm

  What Friiy mentioned was interesting and made me thing about carbon “dissolving” as opposed to loosened somehow and being purged.  I snooped around the net, watched a few videos on Utube and read a bunch of claims.  There were suggestions there that the carbon is not dissolved by SeaFoam.  That the action was loosening the carbon binders so it would fly out.

 

   Given the testimonials, this morning I tried SeaFoam on a 7hp Tecumseh first dumping some Seafoam directly into the plug hole, giving several squirts in through throat until stumbling and white smoke dumping out of the muffler.  Then a big squirt to stall the engine and let it set for a while to let SeaFoam act.  I checked through the plug hole pretty good and noted the carbon inside on the piston and valves.  I noted the carbon at the base of the plug hole and changed plugs to fairly gummed up plug, sootie and blackened with carbon. 

   No noticeable effect after doing this test three times.

 

   I put some SeaFoam in a cup and Stable in another.  I added about 10 drops of water and let them set for a few hours shaking them occasionally.  When shook the water blob would dissolve into the solvents but in a short time form back up into a blob.  Possibly the stuff acts by vaporizing the water but after a few hours it seemed like the same amount of blob was in there.

   No noticeable effect.

 

   I called SeaFoam and asked to speak with a tech and got one.  I told him I was leery about the product and have seen many positive and negative comments on the net so did some tests and would like to go over them to see what he thought.

 

  He said both of the tests I did were valid, i.e.1.  the carbon in a container with  full strength SeaFram, without gas and 2. applying SeaFoam directly to the head and piston.  The 7hp test he said was also valid along with the water test.

 

   For applying SeaFoam directly to the head and piston test he said it SeaFoam will act without heat/combustion no gas needed to activate anything.  He explained what would happen.   It would work by breaking down the binders of the carbon which were “gum”, “varnish” and “other unburned products” which bind the carb to metal.  The quotes were his words.  It would act full strength without combustion or mixed with gas.

 

  He said, SeaFoam does not dissolve carbon, it breaks it down into minute particles so they can be blown away.   That is, the gums and varnish binders would be broken down.  That did not happened with applying SeaFoam directly to the piston and head.  A lot of SeaFram was applied and letting it set for a while to give it a chance to activate.  Nothing came off or on the rags which were also soaked with SeaFram.  No carbon removal, no breakdown of gum, varnish or burnt products as he said should happen.

 

   For the carbon flakes in a container with full strength SeaFoam he said it should reduce the carbon binders and cause them to break up clouding the liquid in the container.  That cloud would be the broken down binders and minute particles of carbon. That did not happen or anything close to that happen.  The amount of particles was the same as the start, no breakup or clouding.  SeaFoam did not do anything.

 

  I mentioned how I did not get the expected result.  He said he has done the same tests on pistons and carbon chunks in a container just like my tests.  He got completely different results.  He said the carbon on the piston came off and he ended up with a clean top on the piston.  He said the chunks of carbon in a container broke up and clouded the straight SeaFoam.  He said it worked fine.  That was not the result I got.

 

   His results were quite different than mine so I repeated the tests this morning with the same result I got last time and again much different that what he got. 

 

  For the running SeaFoam in the 7hp motor he said it should have had an effect.  I could not see any. 

   For the water in the cup of SeaFoam he said once the water blob was broken up it should stay broken up.  He said he did that test also and what he got was the water stayed broken in a cloud.  Very different result than what I got which was the blob reformed after a while.  It might useful for SeaFoam to break up water like that but a water blob in gas will cloud into the gas when shaken also. 

 

   Could have been a defective can of SeaFoam.  I tried the head and container chunk tests with two different cans of SeaFoam.  Could be a bad batch of SeaFoam so both cans have defective SeaFoam. 

 

   These tests are pretty simple so you can see for yourself what you get as a result.
This message was modified Dec 28, 2009 by trouts2
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #19   Dec 28, 2009 2:53 pm
So what was the SeaFoam rep's reason/excuse for the product not working for you? I'm certainly not challenging the results of your tests despite the fact that your tests were not as per instructions on the container. If the product is, as you say a totally ineffective snake oil, one would have to question why so many people, including myself, have had positive results using it. Your post has piqued my interest. I have a old Yamaha RD piston down in the basement with the rings locked up with carbon. I'll do a little experiment of my own and post results. I would like to post pictures but I no longer have the full "post options" menu available to me and can no longer access most posting features. However, I will provide an unbiased account of my results and try to post pics elsewhere and provide a link to them. Stay tuned.
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #20   Dec 28, 2009 3:24 pm
x
This message was modified Dec 28, 2009 by trouts2
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #21   Dec 28, 2009 3:24 pm
Borat: There was no excuse given. I asked him what he though was the difference between our results and he did not give any reason. He just restated what his results were. We left it at a draw. He had his results and I had mine. For the test you can wet a rag with gas or water and get it blackened quickly removing the loose carbon. The problem part is after the loose flakey stuff is off and the tougher gums with imbedded carbon remain. That's the stuff SeaFram should disolve. That's the part where SeaFoam did not do anything for me and the rag only slightly smudges mostly from rubbing action rather than cleaning. One part I did not mention fully was on the 7hp through the plug and throat tests. He claimed that carbon should come off in chunks and fly out the exhaust. That should have been immediate so I should have noticed something looking at the plug and in through the plug hole. I had a blue tarp laid out away from the muffler to catch any carbon but did not see any. Try the cup of SeaFoam and water also. It jells back up into a blob on the bottom after shaking and clouding. I'm not so sure about that test but the rep said it should stay clouded up and he had done that test also. When I asked if he let it set and later looked back in he started talking about something else.
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #22   Dec 28, 2009 8:38 pm
I put an old carboned up piston is a container with SeaFoam in it. I put it in at around 3 p.m. . So far, there is some accumulation black particulate in the dish. Assume that it's carbon. However, there is still a great deal of very well baked on carbon on the piston top that does not appear to be lifting or dissolving. Will let it soak overnight and advise results.
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #23   Dec 28, 2009 8:40 pm
I put an old carboned up piston in a container with SeaFoam in it. I put it in at around 3 p.m. So far, there is some accumulation black particulate in the dish. Assume that it's carbon. However, there is still a great deal of very well baked on carbon on the piston top that does not appear to be lifting or dissolving. Will let it soak overnight and advise results.
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #24   Dec 29, 2009 5:58 pm

mkd55: well lets see there is religion,political party ,war in iraq,illegal imigration,state,federal,and local property tax,global warming..........hmmmmm let's see...........have i missed anything else you want to share your opinion on  trout2...?

 

What's this all about mkd55.  There is nothing related to the post here other than a personal attack.  What's with the kid stuff you 59 you said?

mkd55


Location: wisconsin
Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Points: 155

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #25   Dec 30, 2009 9:29 am
trout2 !   it's my perception that you have a very strong negative opinion of seafoam and for whatever reason you have decided to bump heads with some of us that don't agree with you. you did not mearly explain any  bad experiences with this product that you have had but decided to comment in rebutal with other forums members opinions and experiences with seafoam.i am not going to speculate on  your education,mechanical background,or work experiences as to your validity of your own experiences  with this product, nor am i going to dispute any claims of your testing and results.you have choosen to not follow suit with your own comments.let's just leave it with i do not view your same perceptions on this subject and probably don't share your views on the topics i mention in my prior post either.
This message was modified Dec 30, 2009 by mkd55
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #26   Dec 30, 2009 1:05 pm
I have allowed the old two stroke engine piston sit in 1/4" of SeaFoam for a day and a half. It appears that the longer it sits, the better the results. Not that the piston is at all cleaned. However, by the looks of the residue in the container, it seems to have had some effect. When I put the piston in, the rings were pretty much locked into the grooves. The second ring with the expansion spring underneath it was totally seized. It seems that SeaFoam had sufficient effect to at least loosen up the baked in carbon to allow removal of the rings. My test is no more scientific than Trouts. However, my results seem to indicate that there is some redeeming value to using SeaFoam. Not sure it this picture will work. If not, cut and past into the internet address field. http://i18.servimg.com/u/f18/11/78/38/95/dscf3010.jpg
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #27   Dec 30, 2009 8:04 pm

Mkd55: [you] decided to comment in rebutal with other forums members opinions and experiences with seafoam.

 

Nothing wrong with that.  I commented on what I though were some invalid assumptions and attributions related to posters use of SeaFoam. Posters expressed their comments about my tests and conclusions.  Nothing wrong with that. 

 

Mkd55: and probably don't share your views on the topics i mention in my prior post either.

Your unrelated off topic personal comments are out of place on any forum. 

 

Borat: I have allowed the old two stroke engine piston sit in 1/4" of SeaFoam for a day and a half. It appears that the longer it sits, the better the results.

 

Do you think soaking in soapy water for a couple of days would have done the same?  Do you think the lub action could have played a part in the rings like WD-40?  SeaFoam seems to be a very thin oil.  The SeaFoam rep said the action should be immediate and the product claim is the same. 

 

Borat: Not that the piston is at all cleaned.

 

   From the photo it does not seem to have done anything.

   If that piston in the picture soaked for all that time and that is the result I would say SeaFoam was pretty useless.  The rep did a similar test and said his piston came to bare metal without scraping just cleaning.

 

   Given what you said you were going to do and anticipating you would get different results than mine I dipped my piston head in SeaFram for a similar time which had already been dipped and repeatedly coated with SeaFram for a day.  I rubbed off what I could of the looser carbon first leaving gum imbedded carbon and lots of it but less than your piston.  My container did not look close to yours.  It was barely discolored being mostly some minute particles of carbon and not many which fell off.  The soaking had close to zero effect on the buildup on my piston.

 

Borat: However, by the looks of the residue in the container, it seems to have had some effect. 

 

Did you rub off the loose and flaky stuff first?

The blown up picture seems to show caked on gummed carbon on the rings.  Is that correct? 

Again, given the look of the piston I’d say it did not have any useful effect regardless of what was responsible for the rings loosening.

I’ve had the gum bound chips in SeaFoam for three days with no noticeable breakup of any varnish.  With swirling the cup nothing in there changes.

 

We have somewhat similar piston tests but differ widely on the conclusion. 

 

Borat:  However, my results seem to indicate that there is some redeeming value to using SeaFoam.

 

How big is “some”?  From what I can see “some” is very small and not worth making a claim for it having “redeeming value”.  After seeing what SeaFoam did with your piston I would not make any positive claim but evidently you evaluate that outcome differently.

 

For me it did not break down gummed carbon in a cup over days. 

For you it loosened the rings. 

For me it had not effect on the piston.

For your piston it does not seem to have had an effect either. 

For you it seemed to make a motor run better although you said you could not directly attribute it to SeaFoam. 

For me three similar applications to a 7hp yielded no result.  But I checked out the head interior and valve area first, put in a gummed plug and laid out a tarp to catch any purged particles.  There was no change in the head/valve area, the plug was the same and no particles found on the tarp. 

 

I come to a much different evaluation of the usefulness of SeaFoam as a gum and varnish remover for the head area or carb, as a motor rejuvenator or as a moisture/water eliminator.  It may have some usefulness as a lub.

 

Although our tests yield basically the same result our evaluation of those results differ markedly.
This message was modified Dec 30, 2009 by trouts2
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #28   Dec 30, 2009 8:36 pm
How do you come to the conclusion that I made claims that our test results were all that different? I didn't claim that the piston was clean nor did I claim that SeaFoam had performed any miracles. It would appear that you are hell bent on contesting any evidence other than what you provide. No one is saying that you have to either purchase, use, or support the validity of claims of what SeaFoam can do. I submitted my test methods and results. My results were not that much different than yours despite your insinuations. For the record, neither of our tests are recommended procedures for the use of the product. I have had positive results (be it coincidental or otherwise) using SeaFoam. I've seen improvements in engine performance as well observed two stroke outboard engine piston tops shedding some carbon after being run for an extended period of time under load with SeaFoam in the fuel. So, if you wish to continue with your one sided pissing match, have at it. I've made my point and don't see anything of any value from further discussion in this regard.
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #29   Jan 2, 2010 1:20 pm

JohnnyBoyUpNorth [aka Troublemaker]: Trouts, maybe if you ran some SeaFoam through your engines more often,

 

JohnnyBoyUpNorth you are an unabashed, self confessed, admitted, and known user of SeaFoam and don’t try to back peddle.  You’re part of the SeaFoam Clique.  The Gang of religiously fanatical faith based users of SeaFoam.

 

Without shame you have said:

 

“I use it all the time.”

“I am a big fan of SeaFoam.”

“I use it in everything.”

“I like my SeaFoam the same way I like my Black Rum.”

 

You are obviously addicted to SeaFoam and have the dreaded SeaFoam Disease (SFD).

 

JohnnyBoyUpNorth it’s time to turn your life around and save yourself from SFD. 

Swear off SeaFoam and be forever saved. 

 

Science has not caught up to SFD yet so no patches you can put on to kick the habit but there is a clinic up on the UP of Michigan run by SeaFoam Anonymous.  It’s pricey but your life and soul are at stake.  Don’t be ashamed or embarrassed about your addiction.  There are many afflicted.  You are not alone.  Have courage, take the pledge, do the right thing for your self, family and country.  I’ll forward the contact particulars of SFA privately. 

 

Your 11hp Honda repower did not work out because you choked it up with that crud “Miracle Elixer”.  Get with the program, dump out the snake oil and get that machine smok’in so you can toss a mile over into Borat’s yard.

 

Nothing is worse than a slow, withering and pain ridden mournful OPE demise brought about by the use of ………

 

JohnnyBoyUpNorth, your future and fate await you.
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #30   Jan 3, 2010 10:09 am
Borat:  Sounds like you might be skeert to find out!

The above is pretty weird Borat , get a grip.  Posed over here with all silly stuff. 

You need to re-read the posts about RPMs.  If you are quite positive about how Toro configures their Brigs engines RPM and have an issue with 3300 RPM then you should contact the factory reps and their tech pub department.

JohnnyBoyUpNorth


Location: New Brunswick Canada
Joined: Dec 30, 2007
Points: 72

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #31   Jan 3, 2010 12:20 pm
Come on Trouts... Seafoam disease? How about this? I'll hook you up with some "primo" SF. Guaranteed you'll be hooked. First time's free Kiddo!

All hail SeaFoam!

Contents under pressure....
kipsy


Joined: Dec 23, 2004
Points: 14

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #32   Jan 3, 2010 4:20 pm
got snow all day today while buffalo was playing on CBS. tried to get the honda hs521 going but wouldnt start. 4-5 plunges of the ariens 824 primer and off i go. later in the day, thought id clean up another 3-6 inches with the honda. still no start. got the 1 year old never used can of seafoam spray off the storage rack and squirted some in the carb area, dont even know if it went in the hole. 3 pulls later the honda is back to life.

2004 jd lt180 m42 deck 2000 ariens 824 1987 honda 5s21 1995 honda push mower 2005 honda 25cc trimmer
mikiewest


Joined: Dec 29, 2007
Points: 262

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #33   Jan 3, 2010 4:44 pm
I read online if you mix 1oz. of seafoam w/8oz. of O.J. it will clean any crud,carbon,undigested meat in your intestines....lol..
JohnnyBoyUpNorth


Location: New Brunswick Canada
Joined: Dec 30, 2007
Points: 72

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #34   Jan 3, 2010 5:15 pm
I was told that it had the power to pull North America out of this economic slump. If anything can do it, Seafoam can. I keep a can with me at all times.

Contents under pressure....
mikiewest


Joined: Dec 29, 2007
Points: 262

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #35   Jan 3, 2010 5:24 pm
johnnyboy...it'll take 2cans per directions....
newjerseybt


You want it done right?...You better learn how to do it yourself!

Ariens 1128DLE
Ariens 8526LE
Honda HRC216
Bosch 3221L
Craftsman DYT4000
Stihl FS90R


Location: Honesdale, PA
Joined: Dec 19, 2004
Points: 171

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #36   Jan 3, 2010 10:22 pm
trouts2 wrote:
Borat:  Sounds like you might be skeert to find out!</p><p>The above is pretty weird Borat , get a grip.  Posed over here with all silly stuff.  </p><p>You need to re-read the posts about RPMs.  If you are quite positive about how Toro configures their Brigs engines RPM and have an issue with 3300 RPM then you should contact the factory reps and their tech pub department.
--------
Borat is OK...it's just a minor personality quirk. I have my own ideosynchrosies but I find I need to work at taming them else I would have a lot less friends in the world. ;')

To make this Seafoam Test more scientific will take additional labor and another head gasket but will adding some in the gas tank and running the machine have different results? It may possibly work similar to water injection. Just my 2 cents.
oldcrow


If it ain't broke, try harder

Location: Northern MI
Joined: Jan 15, 2008
Points: 63

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #37   Jan 22, 2010 1:15 am
Another 2-cents:

Just a guess here, but could it be possible that Seafoam requires heat in order for a catalytic reaction to take place? Like, say, in a combustion chamber?  As far as what the stuff does at room temp, it definitely does not seem to be any super-solvent.

I'm not a Seafoam advocate, nor do I use it very often. I've tried it, but haven't been impressed with the results. Your mileage may vary. Like trouts2 said, the can claims it does everything but put on your coat and light your cigarette for you - golly gee-whiz! I didn't buy the ad copy, but I've used it a few times based upon recommendations from others. Didn't hurt, but didn't seem to help much either.

I asked my brother (a marine mechanic) about this stuff once, and he told me it works OK if you have heavy carbon build-up, but there are cheaper - and more effective - decarbonizers out there. He also said save your money if you think Seafoam is going to unclog a dirty carb, refresh stale gas, or remove moisture from fuel lines. That's what he said. The guy's been in the business for over 18 years, and gets paid pretty well to know what he's doing.

Although I'm no advocate, I figure the stuff must have some worth for so many folks to swear by it. One thing's for sure, though - the manufacturer is making serious money on this product. I wonder if any un-biased organization has ever really taken Seafoam's claims to task? A future Consumer Reports project, perhaps?
This message was modified Jan 22, 2010 by oldcrow
whitetail


Joined: Dec 28, 2005
Points: 46

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #38   Jan 22, 2010 12:06 pm
My SeaFoam test was last week end on an old Arctic Cat W/ Kawasaki 440 engine. The sled was not run for about 6-7 years. we put fresh mix into tank and it fired right up then ran it for an hour or so, brought it back to shop we put Seafoam direct into carb till engine stopped- let it sit for 15 min. Started and it smoked for about 2 miles. It made a big difference in power and sound of engine. Where it would pick up frontend on acceleration .Cheapest tune-up I've come accross for carboned up engines.
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #39   Jan 22, 2010 1:27 pm
   How did you determine there was carbon buildup problem to start with?  If there was one how do you know it was cleared after?  The additive may just have been in when something else cleared. 

   You let it run for an hour but probably not at high speed so not sucking much gas through.  You did not mention cleaning the carb.  Is it possible with the later running it may have passed some crud and it ran better?  Seafoam is fairly oily and may have helped pass some dirt through. 

This message was modified Jan 22, 2010 by trouts2
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #40   Jan 22, 2010 1:35 pm
Think I'll just sit this round out.
whitetail


Joined: Dec 28, 2005
Points: 46

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #41   Jan 22, 2010 8:49 pm
The machine was running  full  throttle after during warm up and for over an hour it's a 2 cycle and the only way to keep plugs clean is run them. The carb was NOT cleaned it was run dry before
storing . I FOLLOWED manufactures instructions on Seafoam can. When put up against another machine same course same day and only difference was Seafoam. Sled performance increased.
Seafoam works for me.
This message was modified Jan 22, 2010 by whitetail
oldcrow


If it ain't broke, try harder

Location: Northern MI
Joined: Jan 15, 2008
Points: 63

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #42   Jan 22, 2010 11:01 pm
Works for some, no denying that. Not sure about the role Seafoam plays in these success stories, though. Many mechanics regard it as a decarbonizer, but the cocktail of additives muddies the water a bit. Whatever the mysterious substance is composed of, it sure does have a dedicated following. I'm not here to poke the tiger, just relating my personal experience.

Over the years I've read several stories about equipt that Seafoam revitalized after prolonged periods of storage or neglect. Maybe that's what the ad copy should say? I honestly didn't observe any gains in performance whenever I used it. Regular maintenance tends to keep problems to a minimum, though - maybe that's why I didn't see the results.

Seafoam did help an old street bike start easier, but I eventually had to remove the head for valve replacement. The head was really crusty, even after all the Seafoam. I had the head hot tanked, honed the cylinders, ring job, and treated the carbs to a kit. Nothing radical, just routine repairs. You want to talk about a performance gain! In my 2-strokes, it didn't dissolve the carbon as much as I had hoped, at least not in the two motors I later broke down. To be fair, both these engines were pretty tired, and had a lot of hours on them.

Take it for what it's worth. If your machine screams on this stuff, then buy it by the barrel. Can't hurt to try a can before removing any parts. Just don't get your hopes up too high.
This message was modified Jan 23, 2010 by oldcrow
durckelg


Joined: Dec 1, 2008
Points: 10

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #43   Feb 2, 2010 4:49 pm
I have used Seafoam many times along with a brass wire brush clean off carbon inside cylinder heads and pistons.  It works much better than a brush alone, or a brush with carb cleaner. 
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