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trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

SeaFoam test
Original Message   Dec 26, 2009 11:52 am

   SeaForm makes many claims about what it can do. 

 

Injector cleaner

Carburetor cleaner

Carbon cleaner,

Fuel stabilizer

Frees lifters – rings

De-icer anti-jell

Upper cylinder lub

Dries oil and fuel

Cleans carbon as you drive.

Cures hesitations ,stalls, pings, and rough idle due to carbon buildup.

Cleans dirty engine part internally by removing harmful gums, varnish and carbon.  WORKS AND PERFORMS INSTANTLY. 

 

   That’s quite a versatile list of claims.  Given the repeated claim for carbon it should do something when contacting carbon.

 

  SeaFoam says 1 pint treats 25 gallons.  That’s a mix of 200 to 1.  If it can clean at that mix it should dissolve carbon easily at full strength.  Below is a picture of carbon put in a class with full strength SeaFrom for several hours with occasional shaking.  There is no breakup of the particles. 

 

   The other picture of a head and piston with carbon.  The loose carbon was wiped off and the rags dipped with SeaFoam and rubbed on the head and piston.  The rags are slightly discolored but not from dissolved particles.  The discolor is just picked up particles of carbon a rag without SeaFoam will pick up. 

 

   Given that it did not dissolve carbon full strength and would not remove carbon with a rag directly on a piston and head it seems doubtful that at a mix or 200 to 1 it will do very much rushing over the head and piston of an engine. 

 

   SeaFoam does not seem to do anything. What went wrong here?  No dissolved carbon in the glass and only slight smudging on the rags with no removal of carbon from the head or piston after rubbing.  What’s going on?  If it does not do anything at full strength how can it work at 200 to 1 where only slight fraction of the 200 to 1 mix will actually contact the carbon when an engine is running
This message was modified Dec 26, 2009 by trouts2
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trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #14   Dec 27, 2009 5:57 pm

Sscotsman:  All the tests are invalid.

 

Borat: I suspect the SeaFoam may have cleaned up some varnish in the carb.

Having highly diluted SeaFoam in gas does nothing for varnish (several types) from my tests. Try it full strength or diluted in any ratio on the next nasty carb bowl you come across and see for yourself.

 

The above was done at 200:1 and full strength with no result.  You can try it yourself and then come to a conclusion.   It is supposed to work flowing through the bowl and carb body where there is no heat or combustion. 

 

If you guess or assume that there is varnish or some other problem, run SeaFoam and things clear up and attribute it to SeaFram then you have made a mistake.

 

Dirt and dregs can be at the bottom of the bowl and not be sucked up when at idle or full speed no load.  When running under load the dregs can be sucked up to the jet holes enough to make the machine run poorly and stumble.  The dregs could lodge there or fall back down to the bottom of the bowl and not necessarily be picked up on the next run.  They might get trapped for a while and eventually make their way through the holes and running gets better.  Happens all the time.

 

Water could bead up in the bowl and cause rough running and stumbling.  The bulk of the water could get sucked up and the engine digest it stumbling then run fine.  There could be more water in the tank that slowly gets from the tank to the bowl causing intermittent stumbling again.  There are lots of conditions that happen and clear up on their own.
friiy


Location: Las Vegas, The Desert
Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Points: 600

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #15   Dec 27, 2009 6:56 pm
Hey guys,  I don't know if this is true...  I have nothing to back it up but what was told to me by a Vender for these products..

I was told that Seafoam, and other products Soften and leach into the carbon...  The carbon is then able to be burned or reduce in the normal combustion process ( over a period  of time) .   

As far as cleaning jets,   I believe you can clean things "harshly" or "softly"...  depending on how  fast you need the resultand at what cost to the equipment........   I won't use a wire wheel on a drill to clean stains off my teeth,   but I will use a toothbrush..

Friiy....

Hey Trouts,  If you want to get Carbon off a head or piston,  I suggest a $14 Harbour Freight mini air die grinder and a 3M Roloc disc ( blue or grey) ... Check them out

Friiy

mkd55


Location: wisconsin
Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Points: 155

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #16   Dec 27, 2009 7:35 pm
well lets see there is religion,political party ,war in iraq,illegal imigration,state,federal,and local property tax,global warming..........hmmmmm let's see...........have i missed anything else you want to share your opinion on  trout2...?
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #17   Dec 27, 2009 7:57 pm
Trouts: It would appear that you're digging your heals in regarding my question. I'll repeat the question. Did you use the product as per the manufacturer's instructions? Now, if that is irrelevant, I cannot quite understand your logic here. It's like buying a gallon of gasoline, putting it in the crankcase of the engine and claiming that it's crap because the car won't run. You have to use it according to instructions. I agree that the claims of all fuel additives are over-blown. However, I have had good things happen when I used SeaFoam. Whether it was co-incidental or the product may have actually worked, I cannot say for sure. In order to establish the true effectiveness of the product, numerous scientifically controlled tests would be required. Not to be insulting, but your test is no more valid than the results of my experiences with the product.
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #18   Dec 28, 2009 12:18 pm

  What Friiy mentioned was interesting and made me thing about carbon “dissolving” as opposed to loosened somehow and being purged.  I snooped around the net, watched a few videos on Utube and read a bunch of claims.  There were suggestions there that the carbon is not dissolved by SeaFoam.  That the action was loosening the carbon binders so it would fly out.

 

   Given the testimonials, this morning I tried SeaFoam on a 7hp Tecumseh first dumping some Seafoam directly into the plug hole, giving several squirts in through throat until stumbling and white smoke dumping out of the muffler.  Then a big squirt to stall the engine and let it set for a while to let SeaFoam act.  I checked through the plug hole pretty good and noted the carbon inside on the piston and valves.  I noted the carbon at the base of the plug hole and changed plugs to fairly gummed up plug, sootie and blackened with carbon. 

   No noticeable effect after doing this test three times.

 

   I put some SeaFoam in a cup and Stable in another.  I added about 10 drops of water and let them set for a few hours shaking them occasionally.  When shook the water blob would dissolve into the solvents but in a short time form back up into a blob.  Possibly the stuff acts by vaporizing the water but after a few hours it seemed like the same amount of blob was in there.

   No noticeable effect.

 

   I called SeaFoam and asked to speak with a tech and got one.  I told him I was leery about the product and have seen many positive and negative comments on the net so did some tests and would like to go over them to see what he thought.

 

  He said both of the tests I did were valid, i.e.1.  the carbon in a container with  full strength SeaFram, without gas and 2. applying SeaFoam directly to the head and piston.  The 7hp test he said was also valid along with the water test.

 

   For applying SeaFoam directly to the head and piston test he said it SeaFoam will act without heat/combustion no gas needed to activate anything.  He explained what would happen.   It would work by breaking down the binders of the carbon which were “gum”, “varnish” and “other unburned products” which bind the carb to metal.  The quotes were his words.  It would act full strength without combustion or mixed with gas.

 

  He said, SeaFoam does not dissolve carbon, it breaks it down into minute particles so they can be blown away.   That is, the gums and varnish binders would be broken down.  That did not happened with applying SeaFoam directly to the piston and head.  A lot of SeaFram was applied and letting it set for a while to give it a chance to activate.  Nothing came off or on the rags which were also soaked with SeaFram.  No carbon removal, no breakdown of gum, varnish or burnt products as he said should happen.

 

   For the carbon flakes in a container with full strength SeaFoam he said it should reduce the carbon binders and cause them to break up clouding the liquid in the container.  That cloud would be the broken down binders and minute particles of carbon. That did not happen or anything close to that happen.  The amount of particles was the same as the start, no breakup or clouding.  SeaFoam did not do anything.

 

  I mentioned how I did not get the expected result.  He said he has done the same tests on pistons and carbon chunks in a container just like my tests.  He got completely different results.  He said the carbon on the piston came off and he ended up with a clean top on the piston.  He said the chunks of carbon in a container broke up and clouded the straight SeaFoam.  He said it worked fine.  That was not the result I got.

 

   His results were quite different than mine so I repeated the tests this morning with the same result I got last time and again much different that what he got. 

 

  For the running SeaFoam in the 7hp motor he said it should have had an effect.  I could not see any. 

   For the water in the cup of SeaFoam he said once the water blob was broken up it should stay broken up.  He said he did that test also and what he got was the water stayed broken in a cloud.  Very different result than what I got which was the blob reformed after a while.  It might useful for SeaFoam to break up water like that but a water blob in gas will cloud into the gas when shaken also. 

 

   Could have been a defective can of SeaFoam.  I tried the head and container chunk tests with two different cans of SeaFoam.  Could be a bad batch of SeaFoam so both cans have defective SeaFoam. 

 

   These tests are pretty simple so you can see for yourself what you get as a result.
This message was modified Dec 28, 2009 by trouts2
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #19   Dec 28, 2009 2:53 pm
So what was the SeaFoam rep's reason/excuse for the product not working for you? I'm certainly not challenging the results of your tests despite the fact that your tests were not as per instructions on the container. If the product is, as you say a totally ineffective snake oil, one would have to question why so many people, including myself, have had positive results using it. Your post has piqued my interest. I have a old Yamaha RD piston down in the basement with the rings locked up with carbon. I'll do a little experiment of my own and post results. I would like to post pictures but I no longer have the full "post options" menu available to me and can no longer access most posting features. However, I will provide an unbiased account of my results and try to post pics elsewhere and provide a link to them. Stay tuned.
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #20   Dec 28, 2009 3:24 pm
x
This message was modified Dec 28, 2009 by trouts2
trouts2




Location: Marlboro MA
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Points: 1328

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #21   Dec 28, 2009 3:24 pm
Borat: There was no excuse given. I asked him what he though was the difference between our results and he did not give any reason. He just restated what his results were. We left it at a draw. He had his results and I had mine. For the test you can wet a rag with gas or water and get it blackened quickly removing the loose carbon. The problem part is after the loose flakey stuff is off and the tougher gums with imbedded carbon remain. That's the stuff SeaFram should disolve. That's the part where SeaFoam did not do anything for me and the rag only slightly smudges mostly from rubbing action rather than cleaning. One part I did not mention fully was on the 7hp through the plug and throat tests. He claimed that carbon should come off in chunks and fly out the exhaust. That should have been immediate so I should have noticed something looking at the plug and in through the plug hole. I had a blue tarp laid out away from the muffler to catch any carbon but did not see any. Try the cup of SeaFoam and water also. It jells back up into a blob on the bottom after shaking and clouding. I'm not so sure about that test but the rep said it should stay clouded up and he had done that test also. When I asked if he let it set and later looked back in he started talking about something else.
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #22   Dec 28, 2009 8:38 pm
I put an old carboned up piston is a container with SeaFoam in it. I put it in at around 3 p.m. . So far, there is some accumulation black particulate in the dish. Assume that it's carbon. However, there is still a great deal of very well baked on carbon on the piston top that does not appear to be lifting or dissolving. Will let it soak overnight and advise results.
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: SeaFoam test
Reply #23   Dec 28, 2009 8:40 pm
I put an old carboned up piston in a container with SeaFoam in it. I put it in at around 3 p.m. So far, there is some accumulation black particulate in the dish. Assume that it's carbon. However, there is still a great deal of very well baked on carbon on the piston top that does not appear to be lifting or dissolving. Will let it soak overnight and advise results.
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