Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

A few weeks ago I stopped at our local Kirby dealer to pick up some bags for my Ultimate G.  After paying the $28.49 for 9 Micro-Magic bags I noticed that the bottom of the package read "Made in China from American made materials".  WTH.

When I got home I looked at the old package and it clearly says "Made in the U.S.A"

How could this have happened?  My American designed machine is a "globally sourced" machine, and the bags are "Made in China"

I called back to the dealer and advised that I would have given another $2-$3 for the bags if they were American, an was told that Kirby sold their equipment and all the bags are now "global".  Mr. Buffett, is this how you re-energize America, by sending the business and jobs to China.

--Rant over, you may discuss.

HARDSELL wrote:
Here, try this: http://www.usstuff.com/shirttee.htm

Apparently it's all American made.

Make it in Europe and a vacuum costs a small fortune.  (Quality comes at a high price you know.)  Make it in China and the price is more attractive and no matter what it is an attractive price will usually win out.

After several grueling weeks of doing vacuum demos at a major retailer I have learned that the whole thing is about the buyers.  Everybody wants a wonderful machince BUT they do not want ot pay the price for "wonderful."  What I've seen are everyday day people hitting the vacuum aisle and -- seeing all vacuums as equal in their minds -- they head for the cheapest priced models they see.  I seldom matters how much efficiency, durability, convenience or length of warranty are stressed many shoppers remain unconvinced about buying.

It would be snotty of me to dismiss the like as bearers of poor man's mentality and possibly wrong becuase these are teh same people who'll go whole hog for screen TV.  Thus, I can only assume that vacuums are considered as less necessary.

Nonetheless, I maintain that the "China thing" is a problem that we, collectively speaking, made.    Also this problem did not start with China.  Since the 1960s when manufactures began seeing the saving in availing themselves of cheap labor in other parts of the world and that non-thinking consumers would say yes to buying.

Riccar/Simplicity, Aerus and Oreck I believe are the last holdouts save for certain vacuumsand  items that we may consider American-made but their prices are formidable.  Nevertheless, there must be a push by shoppers that insists upon affordable nationally-made product.  I lay no blame on the manufacturers or China -- just us.  If you're either striving to hold onto your money or keep your virture -- keep your legs crossed and slap the hand on your knee.

Venson

Venson wrote:
Very good point Venson.

Im going to add something which will probably annoy the heck out of Mike, our moderator but frankly I think it is important.  I strongly believe that appliances in terms of their quality and features borders on the same kind of buyer perception when it comes to cars. The U.S went mad for Hyundai's Excel in the mid 1980's featuring loads of kit and good reliability, putting the noses out from the Big Three! In the UK Hyundai didn't do so well with its Pony/same model - UK buyers were already in the throws of value for money (VFM) with Toyota & Nissan - but the UK did buy a lot of Hyundai's bigger model which offered more space, more electrics at the same price as the Pony, therefore qualifying what buyers could be given for a third of the price of mass rivals.

This then followed much later to the preference of audio equipment from Japan (clearly not Chinese/China but Asia still the same) where the build quality, components, sound quality and features were worth paying out for than local or European brands. When it came to large household appliances, a lot of UK buyers found out the hard way by doing with not-so-reliable brands like Hotpoint, Ariston and Hoover - who were producing machines in the UK, yet still leaked, broke down against European brands were offering. Maggie Thatcher taught the UK to stay conservative and to be as patriotic as possible but with it came the downside to most products produced in the UK being ship shoddily made against what other countries in Europe, our PM at the time wasn't happy to import by rising import taxes and restrictions. So whilst America had the wonderful lifestyle products that would make life easier like central vac systems, self driven uprights, the UK got very little of this.

Venson wrote:
I have been saying similar for years.  Matter of fact, I said it just a while back-

Mike_W wrote:
Just because someone does not want to spend alot of money on a vacuum cleaner, does not mean they do not have money.  I have seen for years how people do not care about what vacuum cleaner they use.  "Just give me one that works."  They will also say things like "I'm not paying that much for that."  Years ago, I remember seeing some of those "reality" shows, where they show the family in their home.  It was usually a "McManson" w/fancy furniture and something like a Lexus or BMW in the driveway.  What do you see them using to clean the house.  They are using a $50.00 Bissell.

What is funny is they say nothing when they purchase it, but complain up a storm when it breaks.

Products being made outside of the USA have been going on for a long time.  We had things being made in Japan.  Then it was Malaysia, Singapore and Korea.  Now, it is China.

There are still vacuum cleaners made in the USA.  Go out and purchase the ORECK Ultimale portable vacuum cleaner @$150.00  Tacony make some vacuum cleaners in the USA also. 

vacmanuk wrote: I am not sure what is going to "annoy the heck" out of me.  Is it that you are talking about cars and audio equipment, but not vacuum cleaners?

As for the "Made in China" rant, and keeping it to vacuum cleaners, I will say that it is better to  buy "Made in USA" for us Americans.  There should be no restrictions though.  If you make a bad product, I will go someplace else.  If I cannot afford it, I will go someplace else.  That is my right as a customer.  We did see this w/the auto industry, in the past.

Not all Chinese-made vacuum cleaners are bad.  Some are good-quality.  

Mike_W wrote:
Well in the past I'm sure you've pointed out that vacuums can't be compared to automobiles...

Of all the models made in America, are the consumables also produced in America too? How far does it go to for American buyers - does everything have to be produced in America for the patriotic card to be played, or turn a blind eye when the filters, bags and tools are made in China? I'm just wondering really that's all - I find the American's distaste for Chinese things quite amazing. The U.K aren't that bothered.

vacmanuk wrote:

Hi guys,

I can’t say I know exactly where we stand these days but I do know that what we’re standing in is one heck of a mess.  We’re past the point of easy return since so much damage has occurred due to our insistence on cheap luxury.

The issue certainly isn’t about patriotism and probably never was.  It’s about the making of dollars by companies and corporations and also about communities built in the process and subsequently lost once industries that allowed them to thrive went belly up.  Also, the discussion encompasses more than just cars and vacuum cleaners.  Big time American manufacturers like Westinghouse, Whirlpool and General Electric made everything from vacuums to televisions to large and small appliances.  All these devices were not only made domestically but were sold domestically as well to the benefit of all involved.

In any event, in past American industries like auto and appliance makers were relatively self-sufficient.  I may be leaving out a few things but their essential imports were rubber and bauxite for aluminum.  We had our share of copper and also made steel and glass domestically.  Thus as I stated prior, communities sprang up along side industry and each served the other well for a good while.  Take away the economic heart of things – namely industry -- and what do you get?  Ghost towns.  Things are really hopping in Detroit these days, hmm?

As for vacuum buyers, whether selling or out browsing in stores, I continue to see shoppers, all sizes, shapes and colors, passing up so-called “quality” for cheap fixes.  I feel that ongoing reports of lost jobs, foreclosures, etc., explain that.

That said, choice may well be limited for lots of folks who’d like better these days.  There’s no lament on my part but if I’ve dropped 500 bucks or more on a vacuum – it was because I wanted to and because only I was affected by the disproportionate expense.  There are no little faces at my table waiting to be fed; no one that I have to think about helping through college.

vacmanuk wrote:
Mike_W wrote:

As you can see in the first paragraph, it was in regards to vacuum cleaners.  The last sentence dealt w/the auto industry.  I did not go on about a car company or Walmart stock.  Did not go on about Target opening/closing stores.  Did not talk about the economy.  Vacuum cleaners!  There are countless threads, where the conversation has veered off topic.  I really did not jump in, but you showed everyone that you do know the rules.  Did we veer off and discuss cars?  Not yet.

Like I said in my post, "It is better to buy 'Made in USA' for us Americans."  I guess that is where our countries differ.  We tended to be a country, which was self sufficient in every area.  We had resources.  We could think it, design it, make it, sell it, use it.  I also have to say that some of us have gotten lazy and not wanting to "keep on our toes".  That is where my comment re: auto industry come in.  Other companies, from other countries stepped forward. 
The world is alot different from the world of the 1950's.  Other countries want to sell their floorcare in our country and our country has companies like Kirby, Rexair, Health-Mor, etc. who want to sell vacuum cleaners in other countries.

 If you read on, in my comment, you will see there are "BUT"s.  No one should be held captive to buying an American brand vacuum cleaner if it is not what they want or desire.   We should not be held captive to paying a high price either.  I have to wonder what price Just paid for his Kirby?  I would also like to ask the other vacuum enthusiasts, who purchase Kirby, Rainbow, Tristar, etc.  Do you pay the full asking price or do you pay a lower price?  You see, that tells a story also about this whole subject.  I already know the answer. 

I think you need to ask your last question of other members, because I do like some Chinese-made vacuum cleaners and their consumables.  When Envirocare bags first came out, I pushed them, because they were good quality.