I was at a local Honda dealer yesterday and I was stunned by the prices on their snowblowers. In Canadian dollars, they were: 928 wheels: $3000 928 track: $3400 724 track: $3400 1132 track: $3500 I know they have tracks, hydro tranny, honda engines, etc. but they're at least $1000-1500 more than equivalent toro and ariens models. Is it gold, they re making?

Why are Honda snowblowers so expensive?

1. Because they can be.
2. Because they should be.
3. Some people are still willing to pay for high quality.
4. There are still people rich enough that they can afford to pay for high quality.

( I fall under catagory 3, but not 4! ;)

"expensive" is very subjective..
to me, a Ferrari is "too expensive"..because I personally cant afford one.
that doesnt mean a Ferrari is "too expensive" in reality..
they sell for exactly what they are supposed to sell for, no more, no less..

I paid $270 for my 1971 Ariens anowblower..
some people might consider that a bit pricey for an ancient machine..
to me, it was an awesome deal..
If had the disposable income to buy a $3,000 Honda Snowblower, I probably would buy one..
nothing wrong with that..

Scot

The Hondas are the only snowmakers on the market with leather "Massage-o-matic" grips, Bose stereo with iPod adapters and subwoofer, and Xenon headlights.  Plus, car makers are taking such a beating in the current economy that they have to turn to products like snowblowers for their profits.

I fall under category 3.

Expensive is relative.

Spend the dough and buy the Honda and find out why you like it so much afterwards.  Or keep shopping around and tell yourself why you shouldn't spend extra for a little more that Honda can do.  Either way, it's a personal choice based on your priorities and pocketbook.

A Chevy Impalla carries 5 people comfortably.  Why spend 2-3 times as much on a Mercedes?

I bought a week ago the 928TAS with tracks. I paid $2,537 I didn't want the electric start but they didn't have any without it so they gave me $150 off of the electric start. So I figured why not. I'll say this the Honda is certainly worth the money and if you can't afford it then there are other brands. I don't know what part of Canada you're from but why can't you come down to the US and buy one? You'd save money and our economy at least in NH gets a boost because we have no sales tax and lots of Canadians come here to shop. The Honda will be worth the money, IMO. We went with the Honda because it was that or a truck. Get the tracks since those give you the height adjustment. I really couldn't afford the Honda but bought it anyway.

Personally I fall under numbers 1 and 3,

To my misfortune, my wife did not see it the same way, thus the Simplicity that I bought for $1000 was still too much. She does not have a bad back though and only sees the inital investment, not the long term payback. (to its credit the Simp has performed rather well so far, with the 3" that I have had to deal with so far)

IMO the Honda seem to make a better piece of equipment, most of us aggree with that. Most also seem to aggree that they are expensive, so it comes to a decision, Steve you made the decision to buy it and look forward to years of reliability, Most notes I see here also indicate that big box units are not as reliable, or at least hit or miss no matter what the brand. That said in these economic times who can afford to drop $2500 or better US these days on something that sees 10-15 hours annual of use.

I don't want to boast nor rub anyone's nose in it, but if I wanted, I could have a garage full of Hondas. However, that's not how I'm made. I worked my a$$ off for over forty years to attain the level of comfort I enjoy today. I have always lived within my means and have serious disdain for frivolous spending. I'm certain that people will find a way to justify to themselves how and what they spend their money on. That's fine. If you can live with that, good. I just have a relentless, in-grained resentment for gouging. Honda dealers in Canada gouge us to the extreme, as per original poster's price examples. Despite the fact that I think Honda is either the best or one of the best snow throwers out there, I will not line the pockets of the Honda gougers with my money. Not when I can get a top notch domestic machine for two thousand dollars less that an equivalent Honda. That's two grand folks! I bought my 9.5 h.p. 28" Simplicity for $1500.00 all in. Fortunately for me, I have one of the last machines from the Wisconsin plant and it seems to be a very durable machine. It performs better than a neighbour's brand new HS724. I'm certain that if the engine blows, I can re-power it for less than $300.00. That leaves me with $1700.00 for more engines, parts or maybe even another brand new machine! Rant over. Happy holidays to everyone.

I think its a combination of paying for the brand name, and a good product.

The Honda 2-stage machines are great units.  Are they really 2x better than a premium Ariens, Simplicity, or Toro?  No - definitely not.  Are they slightly better - sure.

As far as the current honda single stages go, its entirely brand name.  They are nowhere near as good as the Toro single stages which are a cut above all the other ones.

My neighbor works for Honda and I raced a Honda in SCCA, so I have some good Honda info/insight in that regard.  He often has new Honda cars and OPE and I have a chance to use them.  Like anything with a "premium" image, you pay a price for that image.  Part of what you're paying for is engineering, and another part is brand.  Thats just the way those things work.

One of our cars is a Porsche, which we bought used.  I've worked on it extensively and by all accounts, it fits the same category.  The engineering is "meh", its difficult to work on, parts are expensive, and they often break.  Does it drive nice?  Yep, sure does.  Is it worth 2x a Corvette when brand new?  Definitely 100% no.  Do people think it is cooler?  Yep :-)

I can understand Borat that you wouldn't waste your money on a Honda. We get enough snow here to justiufy one. Just the ease of using the hydrostaic drive is a huge benefit. I had a Toro 1028 but returned it. It was almost $1,000 less. The botton line isn't that Honda is the Porsche of snow throwers but rather does it do what you want it to do? We had a warm spell so a lot of built up ice as cracking the the help of salt we put out. No way the Toro would have done anything but the tracks cracked that built up ice and we were able to clear 25% of the ice out there. If the next few days stay warm then even the places where it's 3 in thick will be gone. I'm sure the heavy snow is going to hit soon, it always does. The Honda does things the other machines didn't do that I needed. You can use a pitchfork to shovel snow but ultimately it's not going to do the job. Honda does overcharge for their machines and they give you less accessories than other brands. I had to buy a light for a $2500 Honda that would have come free on a $400 snow thrower for example. The SCCA reference is good but if you ran a Honda it could have been an S2000. I ran in B-stock (at the time - 1999 &2000) a Miata. The Miata was slower than the S2000 but it was dead reliable and fun as anything to drive. The S2000 was $35K at the time. My Miata was $22K. I think many peopel can use a Toro or Simplicity and have no issues. but when you add a grade, lots of ice buildup, heavy wet snow most storms and a lot of snow plus other factors for us we needed tracks and the ability to throw sluch and chip up the built up ice as well as heavy wet snow. If the Toro had done that it might have been different. My wife and I each have 2009 Honda Fits. Amazing cars! i owned one when i lived overseas whereit was called the Jazz. It competes with many cars but in the end it costs more and for us it's worth it.

No one brand will do everything, try before you buy and if it does the job and you can save over $1,000 then great. Canadian prices are high on most things. But you can buy in the US and it's not that hard to get here depending on where you live. Big savings buying here now that our money has parity. Just saying....

borat wrote:
The HS724 (6.5 HP, 24 inch) by my standard is underpowered and hardly a fair comparison to your Simplicity (9.5 HP/ 11 HP, 28 inch).  The HS724 engine displacement, blower / impeller section is sized significantly smaller than your Simplicity.   It is designed with lower volume capacity.  In fact, Honda had to step down the bucket intake height on track equipped models.  A reasonable compromise to prevent self destruction, typical conservative Japanese engineering.  I would guess that the hydro transmission and the tracks higher power requirement was taxing the small engine.

A fairer performance comparison would be the HS928 (9 HP, 28").  Even with that model, the Honda is biased towards throwing distance while trading for lower volumetric capacity.

aa335 wrote:
Dollar for dollar, which of the two, HS724 with tracks or the HS928 with wheels is the better machine or best bang for the buck?

superbuick wrote:

joed wrote:
I would pick HS928 with wheels and a light kit.

aa335 wrote:

Yeah. You're right it's not a fair comparison. However, neither is the $3400.00 vs $1500.00 in price now is it? So, from that point of view, comparing dollars to dollars, the comparison is more than fair. By rights, for that money, the Honda should be more than twice as good. My driveway is 110' x 18' with a 35'x35' turn around at the top. It also has a 10% grade. We get ice, slippery, wet snow, heavy deep snow, wind blown concrete snow and lots of it. The Simplicity does it all and does it well. So, my driveway is always clear. I do like Hondas, and I do not have Honda envy. That's for sure. However, I also like my Simplicity and really like the two thousand dollars still in my wallet.

Even if the Simplicity was $3400 and the Honda was $1500, the performance comparison would still not be fair. 

Even if you have or not have the money to spend, seldom you get 2x the performance for 2x the price.  The law of diminishing returns applies.  Also, the customer base rapidly decrease.

It may be foolish to spend $120,000 or more on a Porsche 911 GT2 when a Cadillac CTS-V offers similiar performance and carries 3 more passengers with a useable trunk and costs $40,000 less.  For the price of 1 Porsche, you can get 3 Buick Enclave, 40 cupholders, carries 21 people, and pull 3 trailers.  If someone gave me 3 Buick Enclave, I'd trade them all in for a Porsche 911.  Rational?  Not really.  Personal?  Yes.  Emotional?  Wholly yeah!   Or put that money towards a house, pay off loan sharks, have a blast in Vegas.  Choices.

There is a premium price for exclusivity.  Honda will continue to gouge customers, as long as Joe Irrational, Joe Rich, Joe I Need It, and Joe whatever continues to buy.  Apparently, they are doing well enough not to revert to cheapening their product.  Its lonely and vulnerable at the top.  Simplicity was at the top of their game, but not big enough not be bought out.  Can B&S let Simplicity to continue to deliver and target product and services to their customer base with higher expectations and deeper pockets?  Or will they keep milking the brand until people realize it is just marginally better than A, C, or T brands, and sold in the same showroom, presented by the same sales person?  Then Larry customer is going to decide based on paint colors, steel thickness, use of plastics, and features.  How is it that Toro command higher prices and still makes good sales numbers?  I don't know for sure, but I like their products.

Doesnt Toro pickup and bring back ur snowblower during the warranty period if something is not working free of charge?Maybe that is factored into the price of the blower.Around here they charge $60    5mi. or less for p/u and delivery.Even though the chance of it breaking down in the first 2 yrs is nill.

It's interesting that Honda charges so much more for their snowblowers.  I don't quite understand what makes them substantially better than other brands.  My Ariens seems very solidly built and the new B&S SnowMax engine runs strong and smooth.  What more could you ask for?

Certainly Honda doesn't get away with charging big premium bucks for its lawnmowers.  They seem priced on par with brands like Snapper and Toro.  I had a Honda mower for 6 years until last summer.  The drive mechanism seized and the local OPE  (the only one in the area that agreed to do the job) estimated the fix at $300, so I decided to junk the mower.  Not a great testament to enduring quality, though it did perform quite well up to the moment it stopped working.

Anyway, let's say Honda makes good mowers and good snowblowers.  How do they justify or get away with charging almost double the going rate for a blower, while not pulling that stunt with their mowers?

Part of the high price is for the "legendary" Honda engine and the hydrostatic transmission as opposed to a simple friction disc setup.

mikiewest wrote:

That's true. Their drive components are more sophisticated. Can't argue with that. Their build quality is top notch and engines are great. But the total package isn't great enough to get me to spend that kind of dough on a snow thrower. If and when my existing Simplicity is no longer up to the task, I may have no choice but to look at a Honda or a Yamaha. The way all the domestics are going, I can see nothing but mediocre machines from them in the future. Until that day, I will make sure the Simplicity is kept in good running condition. Have to agree with AA335 too. As long as there is a market and people are buying Hondas at that price, they'll continue to produce and sell them. I'm glad that people are buying them really. Somebody has to keep them in the snow thrower game. I certainly wouldn't want to see Honda get out of the snow thrower manufacturing business. Down the road, it looks like they might be the last place to go for a top notch machine.

AA we r comparing snowblowers.Comparing a sports car to suv's is ridiculous.who cares how many enclaves u can buy for the price of a sports car.If you want to compare similar cars and you just like a Porsche better than a vette even though a vette is cheaper thats understandable.But I have never heard anyone say oh a Honda looks better than a Simplicity or Ariens.The bottom line is Honda is overpriced and overrated.My Simp Pro costs less than a honda 724,lt will last as long,cost less to maintain,easier to operate and kick the snot out of that little machine.It can keep up with a 928 which is really overpriced.

I will put my Honda hs624wa up against you Simplicity next storm if you live local.  I have used all brands and own several Hondas , Ariens, Toro etc.   I like my Ariens 1128dle best but my little Honda 624 will give it a strong run for its money.  Why is it that some people are DIEHARD for the brand they own and against all others?  I like them all.  They all have pros and cons.  Honda is very expensive but worth the price you pay.  You get what you pay for. 

yea ok keep spending $$ on overrated products.That 624 cant handle the volume of my blower.Get a real blower and then talk 2 me pal.You'll still be out cleaning while I'm inside sipping some nice warm coffee.24" width ..... ha.

Awww.. My Ariens Platinum 24 will have you both sitting in the drift kicking your machines in frustration and sobbing into your hot chocolate  :<)

OK

OK, now that's a tad obsessive...  not so much that you have 4 blowers, but that you took the time to pose them for a formal portrait!  Now, I gotta ask: how many shovels do you have?

2 Shovels.  Those are only the ones that I took a picture of.

Hey Knee,

Nice collection.  I'm half way as obsessed as you.  Hehe.

mikiewest wrote:
This is the oldest joke, hot coffee or warm chocolate thing.  Show some creativity and originality on the "snow volume" stuff too.  You came a day late and suddenly knowing everything.

Come on, your Dad can beat our Dad up with both hands tied behind his back.

Seriously, either talk civil with convincing and persuasive tact, or drop your drawers and remove all doubt.

mikiewest wrote:
I think you missed class the day this lesson was discussed.

The comparison is ridiculous when you don't see the point.

I think we all have established the point that Honda are overpriced, both people who buy one and people that hates them.

All vehicles on the road are overpriced.   All computers we are typing on are overpriced.   But sometimes you pay because you want it.  Not because it is worth it.

Correction Honda is expensive, not overpriced. I have one and I had the Toro 1028. The Honda will do things for my purposes that make it superior. but just because I own a Honda does that mean I don't need a shovel? No I still heen one for small jobs and as far as the guy who posted The massive Ariens. Well sure there are even bigger machines than that. I had to get some lightbulbs at Home Depot and they had a Troy Built that was 48" wide! It had dual tires on each side and a Maw that could swallow Cincinnati. I wouldn't buy one since it's just too massive for my wife to use and would probably break after 1 storm but it was huge. Ariens makes a good unit and it might cost less than the Honda. But there is a reason people buy Honda and it's not because we are stupid. If a Simplicity, meets your needs great, ditto Ariens, Toro or whatever brand you like. Honda's do cost more and for me it was worth it being able to clean my driveway better as it chipped up the ice that was sort of melting and throwing it off the driveway. The Toro did not do that. It's best to buy based on your needs. Any good quality brand will probably last a long time and if it meets your needs and it $2,000 cheaper than a Honda, that's good. Meanwhile I'll be out there blowing with my Honda knowing it meets my needs.

I know I posted something similar to this earlier, but I want to do so again:  Why are Hinda's so superior?  For example, Steve wrote that Hondas could chip ice that other brands could not.  How is this possible?  Honda's engines are not universally more powerful than those offered by othe companies at lower prices, right?  Are their augers made of titanium alloy or something?

Specifically, what makes Hondas so hot?

From my own use,  Honda will throw snow further than most other machines, Run smoother,  Very quiet , I think the tight tolerances make it better.  Not saying that they are better than others but in my use they are at the top.  They also start with a half of an easy pull all the time.

Also,  If when you were a kid you had a Honda z50 trail 70 ct 90 xr75 80 xl80 or any other similar bike then you will like the Honda.  IT COMES WITH THE SAME TOOL KIT.  They also have a crud catcher under the petcock that comes off in 1 min so can can empty crud before it reaches the carb.  The carb has a plastic float, and jet, A reuseable o-ring for the bowl.  And has cool decals like the old z50

I also think that Honda are definitely at the top in terms of engineering.  Not so much that their engines are special but the whole package instead.  Especially the hydrostatic transmission.

I haven't personally used any Hondas but I think the track units are more deserving of the high price tag.   In the severe climates, the combination of tracks and hydro transmission make them perfect for tricky terrain and demanding conditions.

Personally I don't think I will every afford a new Honda or justify the expense.  At this point in time I think Toro, Simplicity, and Ariens make better value alternatives.  Especially if one is considering a wheel unit.

Having said that I like working on stuff.  So I am currently looking for a used Honda.  Buying used will be the only way I can justify the price!

this guys honda must be something special ,it chips away at ice lol.AA tell me what part of ur honda will outlast my blower??we already went thru this.Hondas r overpriced.B&S engine works great,starts on 1st pull after storing it away for 9 months.Snow throwing distance is excellent.Machine is built like a tank.It will last as long and be cheaper to maintain than a Honda.Friction disc is a old and reliable design.Oh and no it doesnt slip.Creeper gear works great at removing heavy dense snow.So where does ur machine accel??Nowhere  my friend.The question was Why are Honda snowblowers so expensive??No one can give a truly good answer.Maybe u should take a reading class.My point is u were comparing suvs to cars.compare sport car to sport car.that is what we r comparing snowblower to snowblower.not snowblower to atv with a plow u fool.Oh and if I drop my draws you probably would get excited so I'll keep them on.

ok AA read slowly.Like I said ,if someone prefers a Porsche over a Vette,I can understand that.Even if the porsche costs more.Maybe the person likes the shape better etc.But when it comes to snowblowers,why would someone purposely pay thousands more for something that doesnt perform better,last longer and is more expensive to maintain.Ariens Pro or Simp Pro will do the job as well and last as long.The 724 is a joke at that price.If you'd like I will get the specs ok??

Because we can

thats ur choice knee biter.But someone wanted to know y hondas r so expensive?Again theres no real reason but if u choose to spend ur $$ on a Honda thats ur choice.I guess ur machine has diamond tipped auger blades lol.

Knee_Biter wrote:
Amen, and more than one too.  :)

There is no answer.   Why does bread cost what it does?  Why is the earth round?  It cost what it does because they can get it.  Maybe they are built in Japan and it costs to get them here and that is where the premium comes from.  No diamond tip on my auger.  But they sure are nice. 

mikiewest wrote:
It does chip away at ice.  And possibly an Ariens track model with 3 position height adjustment.  If you had own one, you would know it does. 

I can't tell you what will outlast your Simplicity.  Neither can you.  Even if you can, it's purely speculation.

You do know that creeper gear doesn't work very well at removing snow, don't you?  The auger and impeller are the only components that actively remove snow with efficiency.  Everyone has creeper gear, a few adjustments here and there.  Big deal!

I don't have a problem with friction disk, simple cost effective design.  If it doesn't slip, great.  Nothing to see here, move on.

You should read again, the comparison on the Porsche/Cadillac/Buick meant something else.  Seriously.  Its about choices that people make with their own money.  People with money don't give a care about you making a $1500 purchase that does better than theirs.  Really!

I haven't resorted to calling you a fool, and I won't, don't need to.  You are doing fine enough establishing that impression on your own.

Yes, keep your drawers on.  Not my type, you have nothing I want, upstairs or downstairs.

mikiewest wrote:
I already have mentioned the spec of the 724 in a previous post.  I'm really not joking when I said you should read again.

There are reasons already stated why someone would buy a more expensive snowblower.  Just as you have reasons buying Simplicity when MTD, Craftsman, or Troy Bilt could be had for hundreds dollars less.  Just be glad you have choices.

amazer98 wrote:

Well the Honda with tracks can actually be pointed into the ground. It has 3 positions not just 1 like other wheeled brands. The wheeled Honda can't adjust either. First position is pretty high up maybe 1.5 inches. It's good when you are done throwing. Second position is normal and you throw normally. Third position points the bucket into the ground and wow does it work. Honda does have a different auger design and the 3rd position can really dig in. Great for ice that's starting to break up. It's about design, not power. I ran over snow that had turned into ice and it was like a giant snow cone machine. My wife wasn't here or we'd have taken a video of it.

mikiewest wrote:

Well it's not as simple as you make it out to be although if I was going to buy a wheeled model probably Simplicity, Toro or Ariens would be ok, but for a tracked model the Honda wins hands down. If you have a closed mind then nothing anyone can say will matter. If you have an open mind try a Honda. I didn't say BUY a Honda, just try one out and see. It's a different animal with the tracks. But in the end it's your $$$. Buy what you like, just don't diss it because it's not teh one you bought. My neighbor hates snow throwers and i would too if I had his driveway. It takes a long time with his plows and tractors to get it all gone and it's half gravel 20% grade uphill etc... Big farm tractor really helps him. Also helps that he is a farmer.

Oh I have plenty upstairs and downstairs unlike you my friend.Creeper gear works great .Helped me in removing 24in of snow.So maybe you think you know more than you really do.Also that was my point .what fool would pay more for a 724 when a simp pro or ariens pro is a better machine for less money.Hondas r overrated and over priced.My machine cleans right down to the asphalt so what does your machine do better??NOTHING.So again you cant tell me what part of your machine will outlast or outperform mine.But what I can tell you,is that your machine will cost a lot more to maintain..yes u r a fool  lol.

MIKIEWEST,  You my friend are a douche bag.   When you can find that out just from what someone types in one post then in person you must be full of vineger and water.   A REAL MASSENGILL.    Forums are for fun, education , sharing , talking,  but you just seem to want to fight.  You can be rich or poor.  Means nothing.   If you are not nice to people and I mean all people then you are lonely and little.

mikiewest wrote:
What you have downstairs is useless irrelevant information.  As far as upstairs, the lights are on, but no one's home.

When you are done pissing on the grass, come inside and do some research on the midwest.  I bet hooked on phonics works great for you too.

Why are you using creeper gear?  Isn't your machine big enough to take on that 24 inch without slowing down?

mikiewest wrote:
I'm sure that there are people who own a 724 that are happy with their purchase, and are a lot more intelligent than you think.  What is the point you are making?
I don't own a 724, so I can't speak in honesty how it fares with your Simp Pro whatever.  You don't own an Ariens, do you?  Why are you speaking for Ariens?

OK, this thread needs a little lightening up…

Down with Honda!  Down with Simplicity! Down with Ariens,  John Deere, MTD, Toro and all of those cheap little toys.

 

Give me a walk behind Zaugg Snowbeast!!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xA7UJ-ubA0

 

I wonder what my neighbors would say when this thing would come rolling out of the garage.

 

Now back to the flaming.

You call that a snowblower?

Now this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvc86yDJz-k&feature=channel

Those snowbeasts are pretty cool. However if money were no object I'd like the one they have for blowing the city sidewalks. It's a sit down snowblower with a cab. It has tracks and from the look of it it's a heavy duty diesel construction type of equipment. I saw them clearing walkways near the Mall and it was not throwing snow very far, probably a good thing since it could have hit the building. But they were driving it into 5+ feet of built up plowed up snow and ice. It was pushing at least 6 feet of snow in front of it as it spat out what it could. Pretty big sidewalk 4 feet wide, god only knows how long they go for. It took it down to the tar tho. Very cool and probably over $20K.

The Honda 724 is a very competent machine. I've seen one in action and for their power rating are very impressive. Not quite as efficient at moving snow as my 9528 Simplicity but for it's size, it is a remarkable snow thrower. If it were even $1000.00 less expensive, I might have bought one. But at the current price, not a chance. We just received about 18" of heavy wet snow that started Christmas eve and let up around 4 p.m. on the 26th. All the machines were out today cleaning up. The Simplicity and Honda were the two best machines in our area but we don't have any other premium brands nearby to compete with. Everyone else are using mostly 10 h.p. Craftsman and Yardman/Yardworks machines. I'd like to see some other brands working for comparison purposes but in Canada, they're generally too high priced for the average consumer.

knee biter...boo hoo hoo you hurt my feelings.You're from boston??Roger Clemens,Bill Belichick and you r all DOUCHESSSSS.........HAVE A NICE DAY BOZO.

Wow dude what's your problem?  You seem to be one of those poor saps who take comfort in the anonymity of the Web to insult, berate and act like an all around schmuck.  Cool it, man.

No need to get nasty folks. We all have our reason/preferences for what we buy. Despite the fact that I wouldn't spend that kind of money on Honda, does not relegate those that do to being fools. It's their money to dispose with as they choose. If we want Honda to continue to produce snow throwers, someone has to buy them. They should be appreciated for being willing to fork over that much cash. You never know when you might want to splurge to get a Honda of your own...

..

You must be so lonely. 

Steve_Cebu wrote:
Steve, I agree!  I'd like to sit in a cab with the tunes playing and the heater running.  I could still listen to the purr of the engine in total comfort.

+1 agreed here too.  Any larger than 32" bucket and heavier than 400 lbs, I want to sit on it, not walk behind it.  Those sidewalk snowblowers with 6 foot tall chutes are awesome, accurate snow discharge placement.  Skid steer would be nice, tracks optional.  Lights, engine, action! 

Steve_Cebu wrote:
Congrats on your new snowblower.  The 928TAS was my first choice.  However, last year, I had to buy the next size up which is the 1132TAS because the dealer just sold the last 928 track model just an hour before I came to the store, to a municipality, of all customers.  I got free $70 delivery and a quart of Honda oil.  :)  You did good with $150 off. 

I was impatient and wanted to buy a Honda tracked snowblower in 2008 before a major snowstorm.  Looking back, I would gladly waited another year to get the 928TAS and give up the extra power and width of the 1132TAS for the quicker handling of 928TAS.

I am new to this site and have been following this discussion with interest.  I am considering a purchase of the Honda HS724WA (wheeled version).  My local dealer is selling them at a price of $1,809.  Does this change anyone's opinion (I know that the quoted Canadian price has been much higher.  I have about 200' of driveway to clear with several dead-ends, so I still like compactness and manuverability of the 24" unit.  If I don't buy the Honda (or a used one) I am probably looking at something like an Ariens Deluxe 24.  Thanks for the help..

Are you considering the Ariens Deluxe 24" or the Ariens Deluxe Platinum 24"?

I'm having trouble reconciling some of the prices noted throughout this thread.  I looked up the list MSRP for Honda, Simplicity, and Ariens commercial models and I'm not seeing where Honda is priced at twice what other are listed for.  For example:

Honda HS928WAS (28" wheels w/ electric start) listed at $2,679 US Dollars.
Simplicity Pro P1628E (28" wheels w/ electric start) listed at $2,250 US Dollars.  Difference is $429 or a 16% premium for the Honda.

Honda HS928TAS (28" tracks w/ electric start) listed at $2,799 US Dollars.
Ariens ST28DLET (28" tracks w/ electric start) listed at $2499 US Dollars.   Difference is $300 or a 11% premium for the Honda.

I compared the top of the line Pro-Commercial Simplicity and Pro model Ariens to the Commercial rated Honda's, which seems fair.  I know that one can claim that a lower end Simplicity or Ariens can do the same job as the Honda...but then one can also claim that a $10 shovel can do the same thing as any snow blower.  So to compare apples to apples I looked at the top of the line models for each brand.

The only thing I can think of is perhaps the Simplicity's and Ariens are deeply discounted off of the MSRP and the Honda's are not...which might make the Honda's cost twice what the other Pro-models cost but I'm not sure that's the case.

BTW...I'm an Ariens man.  Not sure how that will play out over time because I was also an Oldsmobile man and we all know how that worked out.

Paul7: Come on up and buy a Honda in Canada. Then pay 13% on top of the $3000.00 CDN dollars. Pricing in this country is ridiculous.

Paul,

Just stay where you are.  Soon after the healthcare bill passes in the US, you will be paying what Canadians pay.  :)

Borat,

Just imagine if Canada send troops all over the world, how much more would you pay for a snowblower?

In all seriousness, there is no discounting or very little on Honda snowblower in my part of the country.  I got free delivery and a quart of oil. 

aa335 wrote:

Thanks, I really wanted the 1132, but after a test drive of the unit it was too much for my wife to manage. I figured ok well maybe the 928 will be too wimpy. But after reading guys posts of different forums up in places like Canada I had no worries about the 928. The tracks were a must have. I did get $100 off sticker, free delivery, free pick up and drop off for maintainance and/or warranty repairs and $150 off the electric starter. I'm very happy with the deal. :-) Freedom Cycle in Concord, NH is a great place to buy from. (shameless plug)

Honestly as long as you can handle the 1132 it's a great machine. but if I can't get out to do the driveway for some reason my wife can and oh boy is she chomping at the bit to use it! LOL She wants to use it more than I do. It's snowing now and we should get 4 inches so she'll get her wish tonight. I'll help her get the hang of it and then we can fight over who gets to do the driveway.

The Toro 1028 I had was good but this Honda is miles better in so many ways for our uses. That said the Toro/Ariens/Simplicity Dealer; Still's in Manchester, NH was one of the most honest dealers I've ever worked with. The honda track system is just soooo nice. If I had wanted wheels the Toro would have been good as long as I didn't need to throw 2" of slush.

aa335 wrote:
I was looking at the Deluxe 24 model.  I thought that if I paid for all the features that are included in the Platnum 24 that I would be getting within shouting distance of purchasing the Honda.  I believe that I can buy the Deluxe 24 for @$900.  Thanks.

Paul7 wrote:

I paid $2,537 for a 928TAS.  They gave me $150 off on the electric start which I didn't want but wanted a unit so $50 more ok. So my Toro 1028 was $1,699.99 The Honda 928TAS had tracks that adds to the cost of any unit and well worth it for me. Makes it $837 premium over the Toro. I figure the tracks are pretty expensive so no way to compare to Toro and another Ariens dealer I spoke with said Ariens didn't make good tracks. I have no idea, but he didn't sell Honda but suggested Honda if I wanted tracks.

I'm new to all this but I'd head down to a local dealer you trust and take a few of these out for a spin and see which one you like. If the Honda isn't worth an extra $800 then maybe a Simplicity or Toro or Ariens. I have to admit if I wanted wheels the Toro Skid steer is well worth trying out it's works so well that I can't see the others working as well for turning on a dime. The Honda does not turn as well as the Toro 1028 with skid steer on both wheels. Simplicity has just one wheel that locks as does some Ariens and the Ariens Limited slip on their high end models seemed useless when my wife and I tried it. YMMV, try them out that's what the dealer is for. I only wish I had tried the Honda instead of putting it off because of the price.
Buy what you like and what works for you.

Steve,

You did pretty good on the pricing of that 928TAS.  That's funny that  your wife wants in on the snowblowing action as well.  Don't worry about the 928 being wimpy compared to the 1132.  There are rare occasions when snow is deep and heavy enough for the 1132 beast to outshine the 928.

MetalKing wrote:
If you are looking for a Ariens Deluxe 24, the price differential is too great to cross shop a Honda 724.  May I interest you to consider the Ariens Deluxe Platinum 24" AND a singe stage Toro 221Q for about the same $$$ to one Honda HS724?  It may sound ludicrous, but it will become quite reasonable and smart decision later on.

The Platinum 24" at about $1300 is a good deal, all features considered.  It is quite feature loaded.  The 24", $1300 snowblower category is quite competitive so I think you are getting the best value here.  The Toro 221Q is $619, best performing single stage snowblower, IMO.

aa335 wrote:
aa335,  I don't even want to think about it.   Oh wait, great news!  I just read that we're going to pay for the US Healthcare bill by imposing a 10% tax on tanning salon treatments!!!   Whew...for a minute there I was worried that it was going to affect my wallet. 

Paul7 wrote:
I'm not sure why such high prices exists.  I believe Honda 2-stage snowblowers are produced in Japan.  Maybe US imposed protective tariffs?

Want to find out how expensive it is to buy a Harley Davidson in Japan?  You may have to slip a few Benjamins in the minister's pocket, a couple of Disneyland tickets,  and a promisary note for a parcel of land in California just to get an appointment with a sales agent.

aa335 wrote:

Thanks, I figured I did get a good deal. My wife however is less than pleased. In the snow all 2 inches of it she had so much trouble wrangling the tracks that she just quit and gave up. This was after doing less than 1/2 of our driveway and she doesn't give up easily. She says she has too hard a time to turn it. She had no problem at the dealer. Here at our driveway up and down, forward and reverse not a problem, but turning is too much for her tiny frame. She wants the Toro as it was much easier for her to turn and doesn't care that it will not throw slush. (The Toro B&S engine is a bear for her to start and forward and reverse are tough for her with the Toro). I do not want to buy a riding mower and put a snow thrower on it. That's like $5k minimum. She flat out will not use the Honda too much for her.

No clue what I'm going to do now.... Any ideas?

Steve,

Not that this will help you now but I looked at the same blower as you did and I bought the ariens 9526 dlet because as you stated the honda was too hard to turn. I wanted the honda because of their reputation but the honda's tracks are in a locked position all the time, the ariens turns a lot easier as just one track pulls in the normal mode, you can lock both tracks if you want but then you have a hard time turning it as well. I still think the honda is a great machine though.

Coldfingers

Steve_Cebu wrote:

How about a wheeled Honda?

Steve_Cebu wrote:
Steve we've all been in your situation at one time or another.  Sometimes it seems like even when we do our due diligence and research on a product there some variable that make a purchase less than ideal.  If your dealer has a 30 day satisfaction guarantee you could return it for a Honda wheeled model.  If not you might be able to sell it yourself to someone and get something close to what you paid for it, then buy a machine that your wife can use.  Or if you still have your Toro 2 stage keep using but add an electric start unit to it and get a good Toro single stage for slush clean-up.  Bottom line though is that if your wife has to do some of the snow blowing at times and she can't handle the Honda tracks then it's the wrong machine for your household.

Not sure if they are still made there but here is article from 2003 that states they are manufactured in North Carolina. http://world.honda.com/news/2003/p030107.html aa335 wrote:

Thanks everyone. The wheeled Honda same issue and wheels tend to slip in this driveway. It's paved but bumpy. I think we might go with the Toro 1028 if we can figure out what to to with the 928TAS. We've only had it a week or so. But as you say if my wife can't use it it's the wrong one. Damn shame but sometimes I am gone for a few days and my wife can't shovel the driveway, it's too much. I was thinking we could get a 2 stage and a smaller Toro for slush. I have read the single stages are pretty good. The 2 of them would equal the Honda in price, roughly. The Honda is such a nice machine to use tho. We have phone calls to make tomorrow and see what we can do. Too bad we couldn't try these units out in actual snow before buying. My wife was ok with the Honda for the time she used it at the dealer but in the actual driveway it's just too much. The Toro has skid steer so she can use that. Ariens and Simplicity have a single skid steer on one wheel. I know my wife was excited before she began but too much machine for her to wrangle. Shame.....

Thanks for teh suggestions we will be trying them out.

We will find out if they have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee and hopefully we can return it. 2 hours or so is not a lot of time on it. I'm hoping the dealer will work with us but we won't be getting anything that can't turn itself and they only sell Honda snow throwers. Thanks Paul7, hopefully some good news tomorrow. I know my wife is upset enough to give them an earful.

Steve,

Sorry to hear that your wife has problems with turning the tracked 928.  I did went back and read your first post on your driveway situation and I felt you had made the right decision.  The 928 you bought is perfectly suited for the job.  Like you said, the other option was an ATV with plow, or blower, but that would have been a lot more money.

I have a 1132 and it is not without frustration the first year of ownership.  It is all with turning, everything else is wonderful.  These tracked machines are quite capable and they excel when the worse of conditions are present.  I can see that with 2" inch of snow, the tracks have way too much traction, 5"x 14" footprint, and  locked axle which is not conducive to turning. 

Turning it is an art in technique.  Perhaps you and/or your wife can try this and see it works for you.

1.  When approaching a turn, decrease forward speed to nearly crawl.  The slower the speed, the more time you have to execute the turn, but requires more effort.  The higher the speed, you have to be swift in making the turn, but less effort.  Find the speed that you are comfortable wtih.

2.  When turning, lean your hips into the handle bar.  You are allowing most of your legs and some of your upper body strength to turn.  Make sure your pocket zipper is closed so that it doesn't catch on the handlebars.   Keep the drive lever engaged and the tracks moving during the turn.

3.  When you have completed the turn, increase speed as necessary.


Now if that is still too much effort, try these two techniques in conjunction of the above:

1B.  Release drive lever, stop forward motion.  Step on foot pedal, raise and lock front bucke to high positiont.  Engage drive.
2B.  Release drive lever, stop forward motion.  Step on foot pedal, lower and lock front bucket to middle position.  Engage drive.

Step 1B lifts skids shoes as to not dragging them on the ground while turning.  Your snowblower has a 2.5' x 2' footprint and lower center gravity.  Don't try to out push a sumo wrestler only by sheer strength.  You may need to employ 1C to make turning easier.

1C.  Exert down pressure on the handle bar.  This puts more weight and shifts the pivot point to the back of the tracks, increasing your overall leverage.

aa335 wrote:

All good ideas aa335. Sadly I did tell here these as did the dealer we bought from when we tested it. Slow or fast bucket up or down there is no way to get around the fact that my wife is 83 lbs and 4'10" tall. She did try and muscle it around and i repeatedly told her NOT to do that we did practice just turning on a cleared section, slow speed and even with the handles all the way down it's way above her hips. So she's using her chest to move it and it's just too much for her. I will speak with the dealer today and see if they will take it back. I don't want to part with it but if my wife can't use it and when I'm out of town, who will? Our neighbors are quite far and no one can help. It's teh right machine but having a small petite wife means making allowances for many things. my wife is great, so hopefully the Honda dealer will help us out.

Steve,

Soon after I posted, I remembered you had mentioned about your wife size and weight, I realized that technique will not work unless the hips is at least level to the handlebar and at least weigh 125 lbs. 

Like Borat have said, maybe a wheeled version of the HS724 would be more suitable for your wife.  I know it's a locked axle, but it is lighter so turning it will be easier.  All wheeled snowblower will slip at one time or another.  It depends on if the surface is icy or if the tires have enough bite on the snow or make contact with the pavement.  Hopefully your dealer can work something out with you.

With amount of driveway that you have, it's always useful to have a single stage snowblower around for the light, up to 6 inch snow.  I have a 10 year old Honda HS621 (originally $850, now no longer available in the US, currently $1300 Canadian, yessir that is correct, single stage unit) and I find it quite enjoyable to use, it's gutsy enough tackling end of driveway pile up to 12 inches.  However, it does not have the throwing distance, maneurability, or the slick convenience of the Quick Chute of the new Toro 221Q / 421Q.  My neighbor has the 221Q and I like it.  Very efficient and intelligent rubber auger and metal/plastic bucket design coupled with a very capable 2 stroke engine.

A possibility given your situation could be an 8-10hp MTD track machine.  They have triggers under the handlebar levers which cause tank like steering by disengaging one or the other track.  They can do slight to zero turns without effort. 

 

The tossing ability is on par with any similarly powered machine.  The weight is ok and they dig in well enough but slightly less than a similar Toro or Ariens.  With a slightly smaller cut you can work through the more difficult areas like EOD piles.

 

For reliability they are ok but an MTD and down a few notches from the big guns.  The friction disks wear out sooner but can last for 10 years or more, are easy to replace and inexpensive.  Another weak point compared to the better machines is a small worm gear. But that also is easy to replace and can be bought as an individual part, inexpensive, compared to the big machine names, and also fairly easy to replace.

 

MTD I think has discontinued making the tracked models.  There are plenty available second hand from 200 to 400 and parts readily available.  I’ve had several with various problems of support bearing, worm gear or friction disk but never a track problem.  The track design is fairly simple but robust enough to last. 

 

The auger drive is done with two ½ inch belts rather than one.  They grip well and will toss heavy snow the same as any machine in the hp class.  They’ll do as well in slush and bog down with the best of them, except for Honda and Yamaha. 

 

The tracks are a slight advantage over a standard size tire with chains and not an advantage over 10 inch wide tires with chains.  For maneuverability they are much easier than Honda or Yamaha which I’ve used. 

 

For average eastern Massachusetts conditions they are fine. 

 

 

snowmachine wrote:
This article mentions production of engines, GC160 engines, and lawn mowers.  I didn't see any mention snowblowers, tillers, or string trimmer as complete assembly.

MTD still makes a track blower.  It is under the Troy-Bilt name at any local Lowes Home Improvement store.  What ever you do Steve, don't get an MTD.  It sucks, especially in slush.  If the Toro couldn't throw your slush then the MTD will not throw anything in your conditions.

Which makes me really surprised that the Toro didn't throw the slush.  I bought a 826oe and it threw 6-8 inches of slush 10-15 feet.  Maybe something was adjusted wrong?  I personally would get a single stage Toro and the dual stage 1028oxe.  The little Toro will be much easier to use for the wife but in worse case scenario she can always pull out the bigger machine.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I spoke with the dealer and they said they are willing to take back the Honda for a 10% restocking fee. So $250 for using it 2 hours....... Still we'll do that if they call us back to arrange a pickup time. No idea what we will get. I'm going to price out a John Deere tractor with a snowblower attachment probably $$$$$$. The other option is of course use a Toro 1028 and spplement it with a Toro 1800 since 2 stage throwers don't clean down to the pavement. I'd have to buy at least 100 feet of cord on top of my old outdoor extension cords. No idea at this point what I should do. I'd rather design my own snowthrower. I'd have a Honda engine with their hydrostatic transmission. The Chute system from the Toro and a tracked skid steer system that would allow either track to freewheel. I guess for slush a power shovel like the Toro 1800 is the only way to go.

Thanks everyone for your help, it's much appreciated.

aa335 wrote:

Here is another article: http://www.hondanews.com/categories/1092/releases/192

"Honda Power Equipment Mfg., Inc. Swepsonville, North Carolina General purpose engines Walk-behind lawn mowers Snow blower String trimmers Water pumps Tillers Aug. 1984 252,000 sq. ft. 380,000 mowers 2,000,000 engines 580"

Wikipedia hit for Swepsonville, NC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swepsonville,_North_Carolina

"The Honda Motor Company manufactures general purpose engines, walk-behind lawn mowers, snow blowers, string trimmers, water pumps, and tillers in Swepsonville."

Steve_Cebu wrote:
That's good that your dealer is giving you the return option.   If she can't use it then it's probably better to pay the restocking fee and get something that she can use.  Sounds like an appropriately sized 2 stage wheeled machine with either an automatic differential or a remote lever activated axle lock/unlock feature may be the ticket. 

For the slush a single stage would work.  I'm not familiar with the Toro 1800 power curve but I found a youtube video of one in action.  For my taste I'd rather have a gas powered engine than have to deal with dragging semi frozen extension cords behind me...but then again the electric model would be one less engine to maintain.  In any event I think that Toro is the brand to buy for single stage snowblowers.  I have a large 11.5 hp Ariens 2 stage and I love it...but I also have a 7hp Ariens single stage and it dosen't come close to matching the performance of my neighbors 5hp Toro single stage snowblower.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQOBq-tF3pY

Paul7 wrote:

I sure hope they will follow through with it. For them it gives them a demo and they make $250 on it. No idea what we will buy. I can setup the Toro so she can use the electric start. No way can she pull over the B&S engine. She's strong enough but not tall enough to pull the cord far enough. I can reroute an extension to the other side of the garage for her to use to fire it up. I saw the video on YouTube, thanks, and I saw a few others as well. The fact that it's light and goes down to bare tar is what I like. I don't want a 2 stroke machine and a 4 stroke is pretty heavy. This is just to clean up after the big machine or for small snowfalls. I'm not thrilled about electricity and snow mixing. The Toro rubber augers look like they can really get down low but no way do I want my wife mixing gas. She's too blonde for that.

Well I probably shouldn't, but I'm going to give my two cents here.  This is what I would do...

1) If I really liked the Honda, I would keep it rather than throwing out the $250.  I'd have the machine that I wanted and attack the wife’s machine requirements separately.

2) Find a second snow blower that my wife could operate.  Maybe it's an Ariens 20" or 24" compact snow blower or maybe it's a Toro with the curved paddle or a Honda with the curved paddle.

One thing for sure, I would have the blower that I wanted and I wouldn’t care what anybody thought.  I would keep the wife's blower as a separate but solvable issue.  But then again my wife doesn't snowblow.

I like how you think Catt!!!!


Whats the problem with mixing the fuel beforehand?  Unless you are away for really long periods of time, then get a 4 stroke Toro.  They are only marginally heavier.  What ever you do..... don't get the electrical version.  You will end up hating it.  Its really only meant for decks... and close areas near the house.

Since saving money is always a good thing.... this is what I would do:

Maybe get an Ariens Track model for you....( since it sounds like you need the traction) and then get the wife something else.  Whatever she ends up liking.   It could be a small two stage or a single stage.

Just my humble thoughts. 

Thanks for the ideas. I was hoping the power shovel would work as a shovel to clean up but it sounds like it won't work. My wife thinks we should have the guy come and plow the driveway and use a Toro 421 single stage to clean up. I just don't know if that unit will get down to the pavement? I also wonder if it could do the EOD cleaning up as the plow guy would come once per storm. Then the rest would be up to us. I'm also looking at a garden tractor with a snowblower attachment. But those are big and I'm not sure where I would store one.

opecrazy wrote:

If that is the case, and you are still thinking of throwing more money at a problem, then keep the current Honda (saving yourself the $250 in restocking)and buy either a Honda  or a Toro single stage.  Either will well suit her needs and tthe 2 stage will cover the other needs.

Your wife is falling into the other end of my spectrum, I am 6'5" and have a buldging disk in my back, so I needed a unit that is easier for me to use, but at 280+ lb I can muscle around something bigger.

Catt wrote:
I had 2 beers last night.  On first reading, your suggestion read like this to me:


2)  Find a second wife to operate my snowblower.


Let the creativity juices flow. 

Happy New Year everyone.

aa335 wrote:

It seems many of us are in the same boat. lol

Happy New Year!

aa335, that was pretty funny.

Steve_Cebu wrote:
I guess it's a little bit late to put that in Santa's wish list.  Maybe next year.

Catt wrote:
Thanks.  You weren't too shy to speak your mind.

Just so you know.  I did exactly what you suggested, a year earlier.  :)  .  Both #1 and #2

The wife has never touch a snowblower or a lawnmower since, so that problem #2 is solved.

aa335 wrote:

My wife actually likes to shovel and she really is looking forward to snow blowing. They delivered the Toro 1028. I sprayed the chute and box with Pam but since we only got about 1.5 inches it's not worth doing with the Toro. My wife really wants to try it so tomorrrow she gets her chance. I should take some pics of her snowblowing. The machine is bigger than she is! LOL

Post pictures!

Here is a picture from our driveway....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/parquin/4252110386/

We have over a kilometre of driveway with hille that are a challenge to a 4wd but it is no problem to this toy m

mikemilton wrote:

Is that the Honda HSM1590i? It sure looks like it. I didn't think they made those any more. No doubt with skid steer on the treads it would be a breeze to turn. That's also a hybrid engine as well right?

I bet it weighs a ton, but probably moves snow with authority!

&lt;BR&gt;<BR> Steve_Cebu wrote: &lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;

It is actually the 1336i (which is current). It will turn about its own center (with the tracks moving in opposite directions).
The motor is gas only but the drive is 2 24V motors (one for each track) which the the 'hybrid' part. and it is about 500lbs.
One can move it out of the garage on electric only and start it outdoors (no fumes)
It throws snow at least 50' and is rated to move 90 tons per hour.
The drive adjusts to the snow load automatically The auger height is powered (and adjustable on the fly).

All very nice but *not* cheap

here is a link to the dealer page:

http://www.honda.ca/HPower/Models/ModelOverview?L=E&amp;Type=SnowBlowers&amp;Series=HSM1336&amp;Model=HSM1336iC

Wow! Up to 62 foot throwing distance. http://tinyurl.com/ydtb7rm

mikemilton wrote:

I see it's a Canadian only model. But $8,300CDN is far away from being cheap. Love the fact that it has tracks that allow it to turn, too bad Honda only uses that system on their highest model.

Very impressive machine you have there!

Mikemilton, with a kilometer of driveway to walk, you may want to adopt this fellow's idea;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaMZxymdaHI

Maybe some old skis attached to the bottom of a tall bar stool!!!

Cheers

priceless... add a chair and a drink holder and you are done

Thanks, m

The 2010 price difference between HS724WA and HS928WA is only $200.  Essentially you are paying $200 more for additional 2HP and 4" width.  The 6.5 HP is okay for most scenarios but can be taxing when the snow is deep (i.e., EOD), which was the primary reason for switching to HS928WAS.  If the dealer had HS928WA in stock, I would have bought that in the first place instead of HS724WA but it only had 928WAS in stock and was $400 more compared to 724WA.   So for $400, you are getting additional 2hp, 4" width, electric start and a gas gauge.  One thing I miss about HS724 is its super quietness as the HS928 is a bit louder (it is a relative comparison).  However, HS928 has not given me any impression it is ever taxed or lacked power so it was an appropriate upgrade.  Turning with my 928WAS is getting easier and quicker so hopefully it will be much easier in Jan 2011.  I am also doing weights to compliment my 125LB body.  I do like the way Honda is built and made when I compare its construction against similar Toro and Ariens models. Paying $2400 for a new HS928WAS is not an easy feeling but then again operating a snowblower you always wanted is priceless.

Why Not?

Lets just look at the engine. American companies are only interested in manufacturing cheap junk. 

Briggs engines blocks are made of pot metal cheese and Techumseh is no longer in existance. Briggs does have a line of cast engine blocks, mostly for their performance product line and costs 3 times more that a Honda engine. ( Don't expect to see them on a consumer product any time soon)

Buy for resale products hold about 98% of the market and these companies are only interested in manufacturing their products as cheap as they possibly can. The few exceptions are companies like Honda who manufacture precision engineered machines and manufacturing costs are simply alot higher.

There is a big difference between pot metal castings and T6061 machined aluminum housings both in price and in quality.

Starwarrior

[starwarrior]  -   "Lets just look at the engine. American companies are only interested in manufacturing cheap junk. "

WOW !

starwarrior wrote:

I have 2 Honda snowblowers, both with GX commercial grade engines, and have yet to see a T6061 machined aluminum engine block.  They look like cast aluminum to me, with steel liners. 

My father's snowblower has a gc160 engine and it's not really a stellar engine to write home about.  It does the job, I don't particularly get too excited about it, but I don't think there's nothing better about it compared to a Briggs and Stratton engine of similar design.

No one company is exempt from going cheap to make a sale, domestic or foreign nameplate, regardless of country of manufacturer or origin.  Toyota is the first comes to mind, with the world's best selling car Corolla, has the most safety recall so far.

joed wrote:

Must be a Canadian Import Tariff.  The HS 928TAS in US dollars is 2900.00 and the US Dollar is almost the same as the Canadian these days, less than 1% difference. Either that or the dealer's just Ripping You Off.

The Honda Engine is superior to whatever is on the Toro & Ariens, and the Honda has an actual Transmission, not the 'friction wheel' drive system the Toro & Ariens machines use.  That Hydrostatic Transmission was why I spent the extra money on the Honda Snowblower.

joed wrote:

You Make a choice, and spend your money.  I could afford the higher quality of the Honda, some people can't.  I thank God for his generosity. I consider the Honda a gift from him.

alty wrote:
Yup, exactly! It wasnt until recently that American car company's woke up with reality and finally started to offer a "comparable" product. Pretty much goes for everything cars, snow blowers, fishing reels etc. You want quality buy foreign. Please dont get me wrong, I feel we should support the US and keep the work here. But we just cannot compete. JMHO

New_Yorker wrote:
There's nothing wrong with the friction wheel drive system. Just because you had a problem caused by you abusing your machine and purposely scoring up your drive plate doesn't cancel the fact that hundreds of thousands of other snowblowers and lawnmowers use the same system with no problems.

Ever seen the estimates for a repair on a hydrostatic transmission or tried to get parts for one? It's absurd.

Bill_H wrote:

Not to mention the lemon transmissions of Acura TL cars! If I hadn't blown thousands on replacing my 2000's tranny I could have bought a Honda snow machine .

Not everything Honda does is golden.

Sorry - had to vent, the financial haircut was mere months ago, ouch!  Actually I am a Honda fan; also have a Honda generator and 2000 Civic hatchback.

1. Bill_H wrote:

It just so happend I priced that out two days ago.  $500 for the transmission and $2-300 for the install.  It's not so scary though given they rarely fail.  At lease I would not consider it a factor in purchasing a new machine.  For a used machine I would.  By the way the Toro PowerShifter transmission is $700 and the same to install.  

After a quick check it seems that transmission has been the same for many years and used in all size machines.  Given it can drive an 1132 for many years the life expectancy must be even better on lighter 6 through 9hp machines with smaller buckets.  The same for the auger gearbox.

For Honda snowblower issues I have noticed a number of machines that have a bow on the top of the front of the bucket.  I've seen a few with cracks at the apex of the bow.  These were all machines without the gearbox to bucket brace and worked fine.  On a very rough esitmate of bowing in 10 years and possible 1/2 to 2 inch cracks in 15-20 years but the machine works fine. 

New_Yorker wrote:
That's some funny stuff. 

I can afford to own a garage full of Honda snow throwers or anything else for that matter.   Money is not an issue. 

I believe in value.  There's nothing that a Honda will do that my Simplicity can't do other than cost more.  Plain and simple. 

Didn't know that God was in the OPE business?  

My gift from God was the good sense to know when I'm being had. 

Bill_H wrote:

The friction wheel drive is capable enough.  My MTD -Sears Craftsman was admittedly not the best quality.  The friction wheel drive's "Flaw" is the same flaw the tires on your car have when you encouter black ice at 60 MPH.  If the snowblower was used, as it was in my case, to almost always move heavy wet snow, the rubber 'Tire' in the friction wheel became bald, cracked, or had a flat spot because when the machine can't move against the obstackle it encounters, the tires might slip, but with a Track Drive snowblower the tracks never slip, so the rubber Friction Wheel Tires does.  If you knew anything about these machines you'd have realized that is the problem and not that someone who kept the machine for 14 years was abusing it.  If that were true this chaep MTD machine would have died a lot sooner.

As to scuffing the drive plate that the friction wheel must grip, the 1 1/2 inch thik MTD repair shop manual I bought explains when and how to do that.  See we who do not abuse the machinery tend to purchase such expensive manuals so we don't make the mistakes you amateurs do, like ASSuming the drive plate is damaged by a maintenance procedure recommended by the machines manufacturer in their shop manual.

The Honda Hydrostatic Transmission will, based upon the many, many reviews if the HS 928TAS Honda Snowblower that I read Before Purchasing it, Never need repair or replacement in my lifetime.  Had I foolishly bought yet another friction wheel machine the thing would need constant attention and replacement.  Been There, Done That !   On to the better alternative, Honda.

  The design flaw in the MTD track was no dash mounted Idiot Light that flashed when over taxing the friction disk with those fine gripping tracks.

  Most people would know to let up on the drive clutch but some would not causing a flat spot on the friction disk.  That would then cause more problems and more rapid wear leading to a spiral of operator discontent. 

 In blizzard conditions one might not notice the blower stopped moving forward so a 6 inch flasher would have been useful.  Worse, in bad conditions the operator might even continue walking right into the dash and rupture his stomach or impale himself on the handlebar ends.  MTD is a cheap machine but you'd think OSHA would have caught this one.  They should have designed a more robust system in place of that stupid friction disk design.  Something like a 2 inch steel chain transfer system that would never slip like a poorly conceived friction disk.  The machine would always go forward no matter the obsticle and crush the bucket which would have been much better at getting the danger away from the operator.    

  To make matters worse MTD has a fuzzy service manual.  It leads many to believe the machine is at fault when being overtaxed and exceeding the design limits.  It mistakingly leads some to believe service is needed when none is needed.  More clarity is needed in the manual to square this point away and inform the servicer that slip is normal when exceeding the design limit. Many have applied the unneeded service and some often therby overly roughing the drive plate surface to the extent that, as hard to believe as it is, wear their friction disk out every year or two.  MTD has shot themselves in the foot on this one and should take care of it.

borat wrote:

I would only buy one of these in good conscience if I won the lottery but these always get my heart a pattering.

snowmachine wrote:
Forget the conscience.  :)  That's a nice machine.  For those prices, I was hoping there was a place to sit or stand while operating that thing.  Something like a Toro Dingo.

Again, for those prices, I'd like a yard tractor with front end blower, back end blade, and an enclosed cab with some tunes.  :)

aa335 wrote:

Considering the cost of this machine would'nt  you rather hire 1/2 a dozen laborers to shovel you out for about for about the next 15 years?

Starwarrior

aa335 wrote:
I wish my property was configured in a way that would make it more conducive to a tractor mounted snowblower/blade type set-up. I could make it work for the most part but would still need a walkbehind for certain areas and can't justify the expense (at least at this time). Perhaps one of these days.....

starwarrior wrote:

That's a tough one. I do enjoy clearing snow so I'm not sure if I'd pay someone else to do it. Although the thought of having perfectly manicured long winding driveway using only hand shovels by a large labor group is quite appealing. Nice perfectly shaped windrows on the sides.

FrankMA wrote:

There isn't one tool perfect for all jobs. Unless all you have on the property is a large parking lot. I would not give up any walkbehind equipment for home use. But having a tractor set up is fun, some times you want to blow snow, some times you want to plow.

I thoroughly enjoy blowing snow by myself so the laborer option is out.... a tractor mount sounds appealing though.

snowmachine wrote:
Snowmachine,

Looking at your sig, I see you have two electric snow shovel/blower.  What's your views on these two products?

I picked these up during the summer off of Craigslist. Each was only $30/each and had never been used. The picture is actually of the MTD branded version... mine is a Yard machine branded version with the only difference being the color of the controllable chute vanes. In my case they are black instead of red. I think the MTD might be fine for a few inches in a driveway but the less expensive Toro Power Shovel blows it away for performance. It can really shoot the snow out there. I think the Toro is also better suited for deck clearing over the MTD. At first glance you would think the controllable vanes on the MTD product would be a nice feature to have but they seem to cut down throwing distance by about 1/4 of what you get straight on. Save yourself the $50 premium on the MTD and get the Toro if you buy one of these new. I haven't had a chance to use them in really wet snow yet but will report back when I do.

My gas engine Toro Power shove excels in throwing wet snow.  It's much better throwing it than trying to shovel it off of the deck.

starwarrior wrote:

Yes, but try to get them there after a storm. Its like my neighbor said to me this past winter when we had a 3' snow "this is too much snow! we need to hire somebody!" I asked him "Who do you think will show up with 3 feet of snow on the ground? Do you have a name picked out? Or were you just going to start calling around" He was very silent. And so I proceeded to use my 26" MTD with track drive over the next 4 hours to plow out our private road. Only one neighbor helped with his single stage toro. God bless him, he stayed up all night and went out once an hour for 12 hours to do the best he could. I finished it off and did EOD. I'd rather be the guy getting unstuck than the one calling around to see if someone could plow us out over the next two weeks or so.

tkrotchko wrote:

Now you are really talking a different language here Bud. You can buy 5 brand new MTD 26" Track Drive units for the price of one of the Honda models they are talking about.

I had a MTD26 Trackster for the last 14 years. A truely Great Machine. The trigger mechanisms would allow you to turn the thing on a dime.

I recently sold it simply because after 14 years of service I couldn't trust the reliability and was forced to hunt for compatable parts since I no longer was able to find certain OEM parts for my specific model number.

There is nothing worse than a machine breaking down in the middle of a storm. It's the shovel we are talking about here and with the amount of snow you guys are getting hammered with you are absolutely right, I'll bet even the reliable laborers are  heading south this winter.

My new unit is an Ariens 26PRO... I don't expect the same manuverability but do expect better performance. 

I hope to have as much luck with the Ariens as I did with the MTD 

Good luck, it will be over soon and I'll bet that next year you'll load for bear like I did... But seriously, if it is taking 4 hours to plow out your private road you may want to think about a bigger machine. Say something in the 32-36 inch range. If it were me, I would be thinking more along the lines of a 7' Meyers Power Angle in front of an F-250

starwarrior wrote:

I already upgraded because I kept my MTD spotless and perfectly maintained, but stuff was starting to break all the time. Nothing major, but enough to have me in the garage repairing things after 3 hours of use. I already upgraded to a Honda, and I can see that it is not as maneuverable as the MTD (we'll see if that was a mistake). But looking at the Honda, in terms of materials and construction its clearly a step above the MTD (although that was a fine machine). Incidentally, I sold the MTD for 2/3's of what I paid for it after 14 winters. It sold in 3 hours on craigslist on the 4th of July! I put it up the day before, the guy called me an hour later, he came over early 4th of july, tried it and drove away with it before lunch,

tkrotchko wrote:

Wow Throtchko, your story sounds almost exactly the same as mine. (with the exception ot the 66% return)

You did great. I could have held out for more but settled for 30%. (woulda shoulda coulda ???) But man the bucket and drive parts on mine were in serious need of renuvation. 

The biggest problem with mine since the cog wheels that are made of plastic was the drive wheels started to get stress cracks right around the hub and one disintegrated without warning.

Lucky me did not have much more to do and finished up with a shovel. I was able to find a drive wheel last year and this year I noticed the same stress cracks on the other one. I should have bought both drive wheels when I had the chance but not figuring on the other going bad I went the cheap route. Actually I thought a rock had gotten caught between the tread and the cog and the wheel just broke. Well as luck will have it the same part that I found so easily last year was discontinued by the OEM this year. Man the only way I was going to get a replacement was to order the part from a different machine that had a different part number and hope it was the same. I even went so far as to call MTD and when they found out the age of the machine simply responded with the perverbial "Oh Well".

Well I had to make a decision and since a different part number usually means there is going to be something different about the part and really not wanting to end up in the middle of my driveway with a yard ornament, I sold it.

Sometimes it is not worth pulling your hair out trying to salvage a clunker. Well it was out with the old and in with the New so not unlike yourself, I am now charting new territory.

The other dilema since this is a seasonal issue (thank goodness) was last year when I ended up grounded in the middle of February started to scope out the newbees, I would have had to settle for what was left in stock rather than what I wanted, which was either the top priced models or the dogs.

Starwarrior 

Tkrotchko and starwarrior,

    It would be interesting for you guys to later post how you judge your current machines to your old MTD tracks after a number of outings.  Handling and bite will surely be different but just how much and worth the price, advantages, disadvantages & etc.  You’ll both have new engines with full compression and remembering old tired motors. 

Never forget if you have the Cash nothing is overpriced. I would never buy a new snowblower waste of money. Look in Craigs or Kijijij and you can buy 2 or 3 year old units for a 1/3 of the price of New and they will blow like a new bride.

"Never forget if you have the Cash nothing is overpriced."


I couldn't disagree more.

Have you ever heard the term "A fool and his money are easily parted?"   That term would pretty much apply to the above philosophy. 

Most people with money do not prescribe to that concept.  That's why they have money. 

I have not had much luck finding 3 year old snowblowers for sale.

Most from the days of old and some quite worn out but newer units are generally handed down or sold to neighbors rather than sold online. A rare and lucky find if you act fast.

I do disagree also, If price were not an issue, snow removal efforts would be contracted to a dedicated service rather than a cold weather exercise routine for the cousin Eddie's of the world.

I am as motivated and enthusiastic as anyone just to get out there and enjoy the briskness of a snowfall but after the first storm or so, unless there is an absence of brain activity the fun part of a snow storm is dedicated to snowball fights, ski enthusiasts, sleighs, igloos, and snow angels, not shoveling snow.

In respect to worn out engines Trouts2,  a 10 year old unit amounts to nothing in terms of operating hours for the average homeowner regardless of where they live.

These engines can handle thousands of operating hours, if they are maintained properly.

Starwarrior

p.s.      Ask our midwestern friends how much fun they are having this year.

starwarrior wrote:

My experience is the engines are the most reliable parts of the snowblower.

What I had to replace:

1) Cables

2) Springs

3) The bolts that held the handle to the body (sheared off after 13 years of muscling the thing around. Great fun getting them out mid-snowstorm

4) Plastic drive wheels

5) Friction wheels overheating after 5-6 hours of continuous use (we could argue if I exceeded the design characteristics of the the drivetrain and I'll accept your judgement either way).

What I did not have a problem with was belts. The MTD had dual auger belts and although I replaced them ever few years, they were still good. The mechanism inside was built to last longer than me. The core of the MTD was rock solid, but the little doo-dads that attached and made the thing functional were a problem.

trouts2 wrote:

Hey Trouts2,

I am surely looking forward to making a comparison. Not only the difference in how much better (or worse) the new one will eat and spit out the the snow but also how it handles.

I really was extremely satisfied with the MTD Track manuverability and quite honestly after 14 years of service, the machine doesn't owe me a dime.

A unit that was built 14 years ago offshore would genrally not stand up to the domestic heavyweights but let me tell you, this MTD really did hold it's own.

I will surely keep you all posted. All we need now is snow here in New Jersey so I can report a real assesment.

Starwarrior

P.S.

Merry Christmas  ~~~ >)))'> ~~~  >)))'> ~~~  >)))'> 

starwarrior wrote:

I think Hondas are made overseas ;)

That said, after I get some snow here in MD, I will post a full report comparing and contrasting.

My only reference point is my son who looked it over and said "Whoa, dad, this thing is built like a tank compared to the last one".

tkrotchko wrote:

Yea and they burn rice. Honda was no doubt the exception to the rule.

They wrote the book on precision machines way back and raised the bar on the entire yard equipment industry.

Yamaha has some pretty impressive machines on the market also.

Ok so you have a manual automatic model too. That one is better than all the snowblowers in existance.  LOL

We do need a reference, They have forcasted the possibility Sunday night into Monday. So far in Central Jersey we have had a total of 1" which wasn't worthy of even firing it up.

It will happen and when it does we are without a doubt both locked and loaded.

Have a nice Holiday

Starwarrior

 

starwarrior wrote:

To you too. Its nice chatting with you guys.

joed wrote:

Honda Snowblowers are just the best quality, and when has " The BEST " ever been cheap ?  Buy 1 machine that will last you a lifetime, the HONDA HS snowblower !

New_Yorker wrote:
Is this your first Honda?  Have you even used it yet?

By the way, from looking at what Yamaha has to offer, I'd say they are likely superior to Honda. 

That would be my choice if I were in the mood to spend money needlessly.

borat wrote:

Yes my first Honda Snowblower, BUT . . . my next door neighbor works for the town, and uses the Honda Machines the Town bought, mainly because the John Deere and Ariens brand snowblowers broke down too often.  I have seen the reliability, power, and longevity first hand, hence my decision to pay the higher price for the best machine.

Yamaha Snow blowers would have been a consideraton if they could be purchased anywhere near New York City, Long Island Metro area.  My Yamaha dealer sells motorcycles and snowmobiles but no snowblowers.

The hydrostatic Transmission on the Honda that replaces the maintenance needy and very unreliable friction wheel system alone is worth the higher cost.  I would never buy another frriction disc snowblower no matter how cheap they are.

You have to look at the full product line of snowblowers available outside of North America and compare. Honda looks shabby because HoA chose to decaffeinate products sold in US.

" very unreliable friction wheel system"

More "fiction" about friction.

You have repeatedly mentioned your problem with your machine.  From information you provided it would appear that abuse of the machine was more likely the cause of your failed friction disk system. 

Your experience is not representative of the many millions of friction disk system currently in circulation. 

I know numerous people who own nothing but snow throwers with friction disk systems.  Many of these machines are going on twenty years old (some older)  and the friction drive systems are working fine.  Other aspects of their machines may be failing but not the wheel drive systems. 

One rather poor example of a failed friction disk does not warrant condemnation of a drive system that has proven very robust, reliable, inexpensive and easy to repair, even on the lowest cost machines. 

You're discrediting yourself ever time you make such unfounded statements concerning the reliability/functionality of disk drive systems. 

If that's the only purpose you switched to a Honda, you did so for the wrong reason.

I have had some Ariens machines from as far back as the 60s with the original friction wheel and still worked 100%  Very good system if done right.  I have a newer Ariens at work first year of the Briggs motor and the drive slips as soon as powder snow melts and gets in. Bad engineering.   I own several machines including Ariens, Toro, Honda and they all are great machines.

 While I really like my Honda machines and they tend to throw snow like nothing else I have used I must say I do not see them as built heavy duty like a commercial duty machine should be.  The metal on the bucket is thin. The gear case is aluminum, Thats not a bad thing but cast seems to be stronger.  Hondas are very basic but a system that is tried and true.  My Ariens dle has much heavier metal and a cast gear box.  The drive system in my Ariens "friction wheel type" Is flawless. 

I do like my Honda Hydrostatic drive.  You get what you pay for. While Honda machines are more expensive they are great machines. 

Knee_Biter wrote:

Having just had to drill through the Honda HS 928TAS Auger Housing to mount the Commercial Skid Shoes, I can attest that the guage of the Honda Machines Sheet metal is as good as any snowblower out there and heavier than most. So I feel the extra cost for the machine holds up in its construction at least.  The test of the paint will take some time, but the cheapo MTD - Craftsman machine was loosing huge sheets of paint in its first year, so it will undoubtedly be an improvement over that.  The big commercial Ariens I had before that was primed and painted in the Pre-VOC worry Era, so its paint was intact with a little spot rust showing through earlier this year when my sister, who got it from me, gave it away.  The powder coat was the stuff that failed on the MTD-Sears machine.

The Honda transmission will be a welcome improvement over the maintenance heavy, unreliable friction wheel of yesteryear, and the cast aluminum Hydrostatic Transmission casing won't rust out the way a cast iron case would, so I don't see that as a problem.  Besides the lighter weight case works for me, the machine already weighs over 200# already.  I agree that quality is worth the extra money.  I tend to take excellent care of my machines, which explains how the MTD - Craftsman cheapo managed to still work after 14 years, but i'm not into all that maintenance and the questionable capability of the old friction wheel gizmo.  If I had only light powdery snow it'd probably go unnoticed, but where I live the snow is always heavy, wet, and sticky so I need the more capable drive system.  Like you I feel the Honda's are great machines, well worth the added cost.

Has anyone seen the new Yamaha's close up? IMO they visually appear more stout than the Hondas. Of course I'd have to drive up to BC to buy one but that isn't that far from me. I was trying to see if their axle was locked like the Hondas or if they had some form of steering on the lower end models. I'll look around... I think there may have been some discussion last year on them,

I haven't seen one up close yet but from the information available, they look like very serious machines.  They actually make the Honda look insignificant by comparison. 

This is the baby I'd buy.

		Price Tag $3,999  msrp*
Overview Technical Details Features Accessories and Apparel Gallery and Media Payment Estimator Extended Warranty Select Model YT624E YT624EDJ YS928J YT1232ED	Clearing Width 71.5cm (28 in) Housing Height 51.0cm (20 in) Blowing Capacity 50 tons/hr Maximum Blowing Distance 16m (52 ft) Axle Rubber track Transmission Hydrostatic Speeds Infinitely variable Ground Speed (km/h) Forward: 0 ~ 3.2 Reverse: 0 ~ 2.4 Type Dual stage with "Shock Protector" Diameter 350mm (13.8in) Drive Electromagnetic Height Adjustment Gas assist Rotation Electric Deflection Manual, two-step (remote lever) Turning Radius 220º Chute Material Steel with inside plastic liner Model MZ250E Type 4-stroke air-cooled, OHV, single cylinder Displacement 251cc Maximum Horsepower 8.5 hp Starting System Electric 12VDC battery type (std) Ignition T.C.I. Recommended Fuel Regular unleaded gasoline (PON 87) Recommended Engine Oil Yamalube 5W30 Fuel Tank Capacity (L) 6.7 litres Engine Oil Capacity 1.1 litre Wet Weight 169kg (373 lb) L x W x H mm (in) 155.8 x 73.0 x 110.5cm (61.3 x 28.7 x 43.5 in) Private Use† 2-year, limited. Commercial Use† 1-year, limited.

I noticed that some of these Yamaha models have plastic liners in the chute and even the impeller housing!  

I put a plastic liner in my Simplicity chute when I bought it new in 2007 and it's been working great.  Never get snow sticking to it and it's wearing very well.  It looks like it's good for ten years at least, if not more.  I'm going to have to take a look at lining the impeller housing with the same stuff.  That however, will be much more critical and likely difficult.  That's the last place you want to wad up a sheet of tough plastic.

borat wrote:
I was tempted to line my chute with this slippery plastic too.  However, the only time I notice snow sticking is when I stop blowing.  Otherwise, there's enough velocity and distance in stock form to move the sticky snow from the chute.

Anyways, it must have some performance improvement since Toro 2 stage unit has the plastic chute and impeller housing.  That Powermax housing must be non-stick for it to work.

What kind of plastic did you use for your liner?

borat wrote:

I used a piece of Wacky Karpet/Krazy Carpet or some goofy name like that. 

It's a piece of plastic that textured on the back and very slick on the bottom.  It's a kid's toy used for sliding down hills in the winter.  Cost about $8.00 and can be found at places like Walmart and Canadian Tire.  Possibly elsewhere that winter outdoor sleds/toys are sold.  It's tough stuff and easy to work with.

I didn't line my chute to improve snow throwing distance, although, I'm pretty sure it does.  I lined the chute to keep winter control material (gravel/sand/salt) etc. from stripping the paint.  It's a bit of a job to measure, cut and install, but once it's done, it will last a long time.  If a second liner ever needs to be made/installed, it will be much easier to do because the first liner can be used as a template.   I also added a thin piece of stainless steel plate to protect the deflector. 

Nice.   That might be in my future mod list.

snowmachine wrote:
I might have to buy a Yamaha just to put a "smack down" on the Honda blow-hards!!!

borat wrote:
What did you use to fasten it to the chute?

The chute had two small hole at the bottom front.  I used those with a rivet/screw.  At the top, I used the bolt hole and bolt that controls the arc of the deflector.  That's all it needs to hold it firmly in place. 

borat wrote:
If you can't beat them, join them.  :)

Besides the differences in paint, they do have common design philosophy.  I'm not talking about reasonable prices, tough cast iron gearboxes, and C channel handlebars.  :)

Please do get one.  I wouldn't mind Honda getting some competition so they can get back on the ball.  It's lonely at the top. 

aa335 wrote:

If you can't beat them? 

By the looks of the Yamaha, I would doubt that there would be too much of an issue "beating" a Honda.    The Yamaha appears to out-class the Honda in every aspect. 

Problem is that the Simplicity is such a joy to own and use, it would be difficult to give it up and I doubt it will be crapping out within then next twenty years or so. 

In addition to that, I'd have to relax my fiscal discipline to indulge in such frivolous spending.  However, that would be easier to do than waiting for the Simplicity to expire.  

In the meantime, I'll keep my vanity in check and go with what I have. 

aa335 wrote:
Pretty funny... One thing about this site with mixing of all of the brands, it's very easy to do a little pot stirring. 

This thread was started a year ago.  Lots of lively heated debate to keep us warm while we wait for the snow to arrive.

Notice how the pot cools down over the summer and then on Dec 17, 2010, someone picks up a log and a gallon of gasoline and throws in the fire to get it to boil again.   :)

Ah the great thing about Toro is they have a plastic chute already and yes you can hear gravel being spat out of it every so often. Really nice having a plastic chute, stock.

Steve,

After watching your great video clips, I am a convert.  Toro snowblowers are really great machines at a reasonable price and Honda does not appear any better.  My tummy is aching really bad from paying too much for a Honda and am too broke to buy some anti-acid medication.  I only wish I have gotten a Toro and save some serious money.  My poor experience with a Toro lawnmower 15 years ago steered me away from a great Toro snowblower (Minnesota Made).   Thanks and keep up the good work. 

Steve_Cebu wrote:
The nice thing about Honda is the chute is all metal.  One can chose to line it with plastic if one desires.  Oh, and when the gravel hits, it makes a nice metallic sound.

Try lining the Toro stock plastic chute with metal and it just doesn't work so well.    And how the heck do you wax plastic? 

Nice videos by the way.  Well sort of.  I was hoping to see a 83 lb gymnast wrestling a snowblower, instead, I just see some big dude blowing snow downwind.  What's with that?    Let's make some good use of that HD camera.  Hehehe.

MN_Runner wrote:

You're welcome  Honda makes a great machine, I had one. Yeah the cost is a bit steep and No joystick, did you see how fast I could whip the chute around in the video? It was this video around 20 seconds in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u66VEMXQtPA  Just flick and go. One bad experience with a brand doesn't make them all bad. Don't sell Honda short tho it's a class act and you already own it. Take some videos of it and you'll be more impressed. Have your GF/Wife/SO take some videos of you doing the driveway. Then post them on YouTube and put the links on here.

aa335 wrote:

Yeah I love the sound of rocks denting metal LOL!  You do have a point you can't wax plastic it's already as slick as a no-stick teflon pan.

Thanks my wife actually wanted to be in the videos but the wind picked up and she was having trouble with just using the camera. seroiusly the wind at times would blow most of the full stream of snow right back at me in several spots. I promise you will see an 83 lb. bodybuilder manhandling the Toro next storm that doesn't have 35 mph winds. Got some good distance shots and measurements tho. I won't get the camera until Feb that's when I'll get it. I really would love to get a GoPro HD Hero and mount it on my snowblower.

http://www.goprocamera.com/video

Now imagine that mounted onto the dash of my Toro! Widescreen Hi-Def 720p60p awesome! and waterproof! $300! can't have that and the other one tho.

Steve,

I was doing fine until when you cleverly showed that slick video then I was having a major stomach pain.  My driveway is a joke compared to yours.  I have a pond behind my house so I have been plowing to make an ice rink for the kids. My city has a much nicer skating rink and it is free.   In reality, I have been plowing there to justify my expansive purchase and convince myself that I did the right thing.

MN_Runner wrote:

Yeah the joystick chute control is amazing.  We have 11 acres but most of it is downhill and unusable. The backyard is almost non-existant and grass won't really grow there. I don't think anyone needs to justify why they spent $X,xxx on a snowblower. I had the 928TAS and gave it up for the Toro 1028. There were factors other than my wife not being able to use it. The rear skid shoes do not work very well on our driveway. They tend to hang up a lot whereas side skid shoes don't. There were some other minor things but at least you have a machine that will last you 15 years or more. We do have a really big driveway very long and in one part pretty darn wide. The EOD is almost 40 feet wide at the very top and on a slant to boot. Pics don't show that but it's why I always throw the snow in one direction. I'd love to have a pond behind my house! That's be awesome!