Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Hi everyone, The other day I had a conversation with an indie central vacuum shop owner that recently became a Dyson dealer/service center, and from that little chit chat I learned of a few things. First off, the DC14 upright is being discontinued in the coming months. He isn't sure if it will have a new model take its place, but I think it's safe to assume that the same DC33 that is replacing the DC14 in the UK will replace it on this side of the pond as well. Secondly, he revealed that the DC31 handheld is being discontinued as well. I wasn't sure I believed him on that count, but surely enough, a quick google search reveal that DC31's are on clearance, and even being labeled as "discontinued" by walmart.com (google "dyson DC31 discontinued", and read the second link). There is nothing to indicate that the handheld will see another successor at this time. Also, though he didn't mention anything about the DC22, I strongly believe it is on the way out as well, with many retailers slashing prices and clearing them out (again, google "dyson DC22 discontinued", and read the sixth link down).

iMacDaddy wrote:

Hi iMacDaddy,

Are you sure or have I misunderstood?  I just followed your link and both versions of the DC22 are there.  I clicked on the "where to buy" link for my zip and found that there are about 10 different sites in the area supposedly carrying them -- Home Depot and P.C. Richard being on the list.

The DC14 appears to have been a staple for some of  the "big boxers" around here.  But to be honest I never know which end is up with Dyson.  Like too many other major vac manufactures who make so many models that making a choice can lead to a major quandry.  The last Dyson I saw that i like was the DC28 and for some reason that's the model I see least in the stores here.

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

From iMacDaddy's link (see below):  BTW, DC23 does not use the DDM.  This is an authorized factory direct dyson dealer not dyson's web site.  It appears this site spilled the beans before dyson.  Awhile back M00seUK posted a dyson news article saying dyson was shuttering its state of the art DDM plant and moving production to somewhere else.  Usually you move the production first and then shut down.  Called transitioning production.  I noted here at the time that it seems unusual to close before moving production of DDM to another physical location.  Maybe this is the reason it shut down abruptly: DDM is a flop and is being scrapped in handheld and baby canister lines.

DC28 is probably dyson's best and final TOL upright model.  At $599 it's just too much for big box venue.  Even at $500 which is its sales price.  Too much in current times.  And the brush adjustment mechanism is still in its infancy.  Based on the refinements dyson made to ball models, filter schedule cleanings and clutches from DC07 and 14 to DC17 and after, it's fair to say dyson will have to refine DC28 brush adjustment mechanisms too.  With innovation comes risks.  With dyson that means high priced mistakes for consumers who take the plunge too.

Carmine D.

Dyson DC22 TurbineHead
Has been Discontinued
Check out the DC23 TurbineHead

CarmineD wrote:

There's two models of digital motor that Dyson have, the origional (v1) and the smaller, v2. The DDM v1 is used in the AirBlade hand driers and some canisters. The DDM v2 is used in the Dyson hand vacs and also the Air Multiplier fan. Given the relatively stable demand for the hand driers, you might imagine they can maintain good inventories and make a break in production feasible.

Videos for the production line of the DDM v2 show a highly automated assembily process. Importantly, the line appears to be constructed around modular, free-standing frames. I'd imagine all the production assets are owned by Dyson and if they wanted to move production at a moment's notice, they could quickly have them in shipping containers and up and running anywhere in the world within a few weeks.

M00seUK wrote:

I suspect Sir James, being the smart business man that he is, kept a ready path for retreat in the case the products using DDM had lackluster sales after 4 years.  As you say, easy to dismantle fixtures and fittings to relocate DDM production quickly to a smaller less expensive facility.  No doubt a reason the DDM products are [were] priced so high is the overhead costs for the DDM production facility plus the transportation costs to ship DDM to final production sites [wherever the dyson products using DDM are being made].

A few weeks for being up and running is an overly optimistic estimate IMHO.  Sites require approvals and clearances for operations [often dictated by local government entities that are bureacratic even for a Queen's Knight], existing contractual agreements with terms that fix lease changes/times for revisions especially nullifying, new legal agreements that require reviewing/signing by different parties often involving negotiations and rewriting contracts which take time, and trained staff to set up, operate the facilities, and machinery used in production.  Expert seasoned staff don't always pick up and move with the company around the world by uprooting their families and friends from their homes/communities, school systems being a huge drawback depending on where locations are moved.  The process takes a few months at a minimum to transition even small amounts of production into temporary quarters and much longer times to get back to going at full speed in a site with permanence. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
It's perhaps common practise these days; to have production equipment that can easily be re-sited. It would certainly ensure you aren't too reliant on a contract manufacturer.
Possibly no conspiracy beyond that. We'll have to wait and see what type of motors any future products include.

M00seUK wrote:

Once again I have to rebut you.  Discontinuing the DDM products like the DC16, DC31, and DC22 outright and upfront AND shuttering the DDM production plant before transitioning to another site and/or launching new products with DDM send a message loud and clear to me and probably others in the industry.  The DDM at least in the handhelds and canns are a flop for whatever reasons and there may be many.  Nothing to wait and see.  The chapter closed on those products using DDM and the plant producing.   It's back to the drawing board anew.  Back to square 1 for vacuum applications of DDM.  I'm not buying what you and dyson are selling on the DDM for hand dryers either.   But the latter are no concern to me as a vacuum professional [even if a retired one]. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
During the 90s Dyson contracted with a US company, Philips Plastics, for production of the early vacuum cleaners. They had quite a disruptive falling out over pricing, but Dyson was still able to move the moulds in to their own facility with the minimum of disruption, even though some moulds were with-held pending final payments and Philips staff allegedly vandalised many items of the equipment.

You might well be correct, that 2 weeks is a touch on the optimistic side. However, if Dyson planned ahead on a move, all the new contacts would already be signed. As a production line is a potential business fail point, key Dyson employees would have plenty of documentation in place to ensure that a relatively quick relocation could be made in the event of natural disasters, civil unrest, long-term power failures, etc.

When changing contact supplier, it would make much more sense financially to relocate, rather than replicate the production line and wind one down - so long as their supply chain / lead times are covered.

CarmineD wrote:
The DC16 never had a DDM part. The DC22 would have used the the DDM v1. Sources suggest that the DC30 / DC31 handheld is being discontinued and supplys run down, but it might be that it's being replaced with an updated model. I would personally find it highly unlikely that Dyson is exiting the handheld market, but as said, time will tell.

The AirMultiplier fan uses the DDM v2 and it sounds likely that the upcoming Digtal Slim will as well and maybe even items in the Dyson kitchenware range (as suggested by the patent filings) in the near future. Do you have anything to suggest that Dyson no longer has a facility *anywhere* making motors to their design?

M00seUK wrote:

More like ridiculously optimistic.  Not that I'm correct.  Of course I am.  You're incorrect to suggest 2 weeks is a realistic time for moving any part production from one place/source to another.  Months are more like it assuming everything you say above is already done without any problems.  Unless cutting costs is your goal [or government/political unrest which is a clear and present danger to life], you always produce in parallel site/source operations until you know for sure the new site/source is up, running AND reliable.  You write off/amortize the redundant costs of operations as part of business/plant relocation expenses.  It's done all the time.  Just like you do with R&D.  You never shut down the old plant/cut off the old supplier if it is your only source, especially for a critical component like a DDM.  You never go solo with a new, untested site/source, unless it's a start up for a new product that is not yet marketed and sold.  If you have an ongoing product operation, you need absolute certainty the new site/source is reliable with no interruption/delay of business operations.  Unless, of course, you forewarn retailers and customers to expect a down time and give time estimates with best and worse timeframes.  Then you have to meet them.  Cutting the old and turning on the new is just too risky for current operations.  And the reputation for your brand name if you blow it.  Even for a maverick like Sir James.

Having said all this, I'm sure Sir James and dyson ARE pondering these issues now as we post here.  For very good reasons.

Carmine D.

M00seUK wrote:

The DC16 is scrubbed.  Now DC30 and DC31 [both DDM users] are discontinued too and being sold on clearance.  Pretty good evidence that the DC22 the baby dyson which uses the DDM is over too.  No superceding handheld/cann models with DDM announced to date.  Your belief about dyson not exiting the handheld market is on pretty shakey ground.  Your belief that a DDM will be used soon in a slim upright is on shakey ground too based on the demise of the baby dyson cann.  I'm not interested in hand dryers, fans, and yet to be launched kitchen ware using DDM.  I am interested in a DDM slim upright but that is still pie in the sky based on a patent for a number of potential uses none of which are launched or scheduled to be launched.  The rumor that a DC33 was a likely candidate for a DDM slim upright proved incorrect.  Like relocating DDM production in several weeks: Alot of optimism, not much reality.

I have no evidence that dyson has any facility anywhere right now or in the future for making DDM vacuum motors.  All indications suggest otherwise: Dyson closed the chapter on DDM vacuum applications and is going back to the drawing board.  I know the plant where the DDM vacuum motors were made is shuttered and/or the vacuum motor production is abandoned.  Why?  All the vacuums using DDM are discontinued and none have been announced that will use DDM except in a patent.  That's pretty good evidence for me and probably others that it's over for DDM and vacuums.  Maybe a DDM stick vacuum that uses a power cord.  That's a possibility for dyson but depends on the price.

Carmine D.