Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

How sealed are Dysons? And how good is their filtration? I know the uprights - at least the older, older ones like the DC07 and such might have potential problems with sealing, such as show in this video right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXA0N0V2uOQ However there could simply be something wrong w/ that one, who knows. BUT ANYWAYS, are the NEWER uprights COMPLETELY sealed? What about their canisters, such as the DC22, 23? Like does any air blow out of the cord reel or such, or ONLY out of the exhaust where it's SUPPOSED to come out from?

Oh boy have you done went and did it. . .You went and used the "D" word.  Put on your fire suit and take cover.

Hahaha, I'm pretty flame retardant :P

Can't wait :P

Hertz wrote:

If you are concerned about being completely sealed, why would you even consider bagless?  

Dyson does meet some criteria for the British and American Allergy Foundations - for what it's worth.  Unless you have a medical condition with serious allergies, I wouldn't worry about whether the machine is completely sealed.  

I would consider bagless due to it being the superior option in terms of economics - for both the fiscal aspect and the environment. Finally, I want a vacuum that is COMPLETELY sealed so I have the best filtration that it can offer, and it can be harmful to have that crap released back into the air. Dysons are hygienic to empty so that's a moot point.

I'm also just straight up CURIOUS as to whether or not Dyson took the time make sure their vacuum is completely sealed.

Hertz wrote:
Unless you have a medical condition, it's irrelevant.  The moment you open the bagless canister dust will be released.    If you have no breathing problems emptying a Dyson canister, then you have no need to worry about whether the machine is completely sealed.   Completely sealed vacuums are for people with serious allergies and/or money to burn.   If you have serious allergies then you need a bagged vacuum like a Miele.  For the rest of us, it's overkill.  Do you wear a dust mask when you walk outside? 

Dysons are NOT completely sealed.   The Dyson are what they are.  Most Dyson uprights, according to Consumer Reports, are very good vacuums - just like the other 30 or so vacuums that score at least 60 out of 100 points.  There's no need to pretend that They're something that they're not. 

Severus wrote:
You are unstoppable and pure comedy.

Hertz wrote:

Hertz,

 

This Miele dealer is a con man and brazen or real stupid.  I think the latter.  I can go on and on, but the most obvious of his tricks is the camera angle of the so-called pre-motor filter cover leak.  This idiot is dropping the kapok into the exhaust air and claiming the vac has a leak (@pre-motor filter cover). The camera angle fools the viewer.  This dope, wants the viewer to believe the suction side…I’ll repeat, the suction side is leaking (blowing air).  The suction side sucks, there is no leak at the pre-motor filter cover prior to him tugging on it or pushing the thumb release (can be seen on video, he does it very quickly), so to measure with the particle counter, and not blowing.

 

Do you see any Miele Dealers on this forum getting upset at this con man?

 

The dishonesty of the Dyson bad-mouthers here runs deep.  They could of/should of told you what I just did, but they didn’t.

 

Dyson Invents Big.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Dustmite,

Please tell me what you disagree with.   I have clearly stated that most Dyson uprights are very good bagless vacuums that are approved by Asthma Foundations in the US and Britain.   You don't vacuum in a vacuum - there are other sources of air movement - like your HVAC.   Most allergy sites advise against bagless vacuums for people with serious allergies - or to at least have someone else dump the canister. 

See it just doesn't matter - if its bagless despite any brand including Dyson, it will always prove to be a health hazard.

vacmanuk wrote:
Dump in a water-mist lined bag (slight amount of water) and use a little technique and little to no health hazard (plume).

All bags choke when Dyson's don't (if maintained and has a zero dollar cost).  Allergy suffers are better off lifting and removing allergens from carpeting...something a choking bag vacuum or choked out bag cannot deliver.

Severus wrote:
Two-Faces,

You won’t even play fair with a newcomer.  Why won’t you help Hertz or whomever and point out that the vav-goof dealer is a lowlife lying slight-of-hand con man, as has been discussed here in the past?  Even Mole and the guys on the collector forum laugh at this Miele rep, but not you.  And where is Miele Corp.?  Why are they allowing him to lie, why don’t they shut him down?  He’s embarrassing!...don’t you think?



Dyson Invents Big

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Dustmite,

Don't get your panties in a wad.  Dysons aren't meant for the tiny percentage of people who have really serious allergies.  Miele does make 0 emissions vacuum - confirmed by independent lab tests.  It's expensive, and the bags and filters are expensive.  If you have a medical condition, you likely need to spend the money on such things.  

Have you repeated the man's tests with your own particle counter?  Or does Dyson even claim to have 0 emissions?  If not, then let it go.  It's really not a big deal.  Given that Hertz has no problem emptying a bagless vacuum, it isn't even important whether Dyson is completely sealed.  Completely sealed is for people who live in bubbles or have serious medical conditions.  The wind blowing will expose you to more allergens than you'll be exposed to with most modern vacuum cleaners. 

Severus wrote:
Look Goof,

Straight men do not wear panties...get it straight!

This guy has been established as a con by many vac guys.  I can care less if you get-it.

DIB, QUIT INSULTING PEOPLE! It makes you look like a child! I really appreciate you're passion for Dysons, but please, for your own sake, stop insulting people who don't agree with you - argue sure, but "goof"? No need dude, unless you were simply kidding around :P I do however agree that this guy is simply a Miele suck up as he even sates that "Sebo's are not sealed vacuums" - BAHAHAHAHA! What a chump. Anyways, I'm really curious if Dysons are completely sealed from a Design standpoint - like how much effort did they put in to make sure the system is air tight. This matters because A.) Dust will fly into the other housings of the unit and gunk it up and B.) Air born allergens from outside aren't as harmful as those being sucked out of the rug. Either way, I'm sure it's not a big deal in terms of vacuuming cleanliness, as they're obviously sealed ENOUGH, but I'm just wondering if they're COMPLETELY sealed? Can someone at least answer if there's any air coming out of the cord rewind on the canister models?

Yet again Dib your argument about choking bags is flawed - if they contain dust in the first place then they aren't harming the lungs as much as Dyson or any other bin that requires secondary cleaning on the filters. And that's before you even touch the pre and after motor filters that are caked in dust on many bagless vacs. Just because you can't see the dust doesnt mean it's not airborne the moment a bagless cyclonic dust bin has been opened.

Hertz wrote:
According to this web site:  http://www.allergybuyersclubshopping.com/dyson-stowaway-dc23-motorhead-canister-vacuum-cleaners.html?itemId=2420, the Dyson DC23 has sealed HEPA filtration - "We tested the sealed HEPA filtration system to confirm that it expels only clean air. The HEPA filter is washable and the vacuum is bagless, which means no vacuum cleaner bag costs! We found that the bin to be hygienic and easy to empty."

There are links to other Dyson vacuums, so you can read their comments on them as well. 

Just poking my nose in to say "I told you so:"

Opinion to follow,

I think Dysons look pretty neat.  I have never used one but would like to try one just for the heck of it.  I wish they were a little more wallet friendly for a plastic machine, but hey they are all going plastic. 

I think the comment in an  above post is right on.  Even if a machine is totally sealed, once you go to empty the dust container, it is going to be open so it's all moot anyway.

Look at Filter Queen.  A fine machine, great suction, good durability, good filteration.  BUT--you end up taking it outside and dumping it like a shop-vac.  Something seems lost in the process for me.  The old Kirbys were not so great filteration, and then you dumped them on a newspaper and let more dirt fly. Still there is nothing that I could say bad about a Kirby.  But I will always admit to being partial.  The Rainbow was supposed to trap all the dirt in water washed air.  But there is some dirt that is hydrophobic and would escape in the air path.  It was good in theory. 

In the end you could do worse than a Dyson,  you may be able to do better; but it's you that you have to please.  If you like it, it works for you, you can afford it. Go for it.

Just wrote:

Just, that's not fair!  You're stating perfect common sense.

Venson

Thank you all, and it's good to know the Dyson is completely sealed. It's not so much that it's not releasing dirty air back, it's that they took the time to put quality construction into the machine and design, which is evident of it being completely sealed. I was just curious more than ever, but thanks all you guys :D

   Dyson as well as other bagless that have come in for repair have had leakage and don't completely seal. At first they will , then will eventually lose their seal. As evidenced by dust on the body and where the bin is sitting. The worst that I have seen in leakage was the Fantom while it was uot. Dyson is not as bad but does leak..

procare wrote:

I have a feeling that this was due to A.) Improper use B.) Improper maintenance C.) Them being older models. Their canisters - which I am mainly interested in - are VERY simply in their seals (only two through out the whole system in terms of cyclone bin assembly connection - and thus given that their newer uprights seal well - from what I've gathered, I could only imaging their canisters are excellent. Again, just as I have been logically enlightened on this forum, if it leaks a TEENY bit out, big deal? As soon as you go to change a bag or empty the cup you'll get a TEENY bit of dust flying around anyways, so it's not that big of a deal. Still, complete sealing's always nice B)

If the issue is zero blowback, the best bet is a central vacuum that exhaust to the outside of your living space. It doesn't get any better than that.

Venson

Hi Severus:

Good link to allergy buyers web site.  If I recall, you posted this site before here.  And I was impressed tho may not have mentioned at the time.  Looks like MIELE and SEBO vacuums get the highest andmost number of excellent ratings, even the newest MIELE S7 upright series, even if not all their [MIELE/SEBO] models are actually HEPA rated and/or sealed vacuum systems.  Thanks for posting.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
I agree with you that the allergy sites tend to be good sources of information for allergy sufferers.    They should get a lot of feedback from their customers about what works and what doesn't.   However, they don't seem to be nearly as rigorous as CR in their testing.

I would agree that people with serious medical conditions should stick with a bagged vacuum or even a central vacuum.

Miele's superior filtration does come at a price.   I'm not sure, but Riccar and Simplicity may have filtration comparable to Miele.  You could always visit the Tacony vacuum museum in St. James, MO and get one at the factory store.

Severus wrote:

The full size RICCAR/SIMPLICITY uprights and canisters boast in writing that they are 100% sealed systems with HEPA S-Class ratings.  Interestingly, CR rates the bagged RICCAR Brilliance [succesor to Radiance] and SIMPLICITY Synchrony Premium uprights very good for emissions rather than excellent, as one might expect with 100% sealed HEPA S-class. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi,

Is there a comprehensive guide as to acceptable to harmful levels of vacuum filtration? How many microns retained actually  constitute excellent, very good and good filtering service? CR's excellent to very good rating slots would cause me as a consumer to think there's little difference.  What does a micron or  two missed in the filtration process really mean to a serious dust allergy sufferer as opposed to machines that obviously don't contain dust well?

Venson

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hey yo DIB, this ones for you man: http://www.vacuumland.org/TD/THREADS/MODERN/7903.htm?36 If you haven't discovered this sight (vacuumland) and the awesome dude that is "vintagehoover", then you're in for a treat. Vintagehoover is THE dude to talk to about Dysons, and has more Dysons than some people seem to have brain cells. Awesome stuff. I, like yourself, really like Dysons, and I appreciate your passion for them man, as I share that, as well B) (though you might like Dysons abit more than I do ;) ) Anyways, enjoy.

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson:

Vacuum emissions testing by CR has evolved over recent years.  In the late 90's CR's testing for emissions involved measuring the particle concentration in the air of a specially prepared room before and after vacuuming up wood flour from a medium-pile carpet.  CR was quick back then to note when and in which cases vacuums w/o HEPA ratings matched/bested emissions with models claiming HEPA.  More recently, CR measures the release of small particles from the vacuum during operation.  Not sure why CR made the emissions testing changes.  Current CR emission ratings seem to indicate parity among all brands and models with the vast majority of ratings ranging in very good and excellent, as you say.  10 years ago, CR vacuum emissions ran the gamut from poor to excellent with an average overall rating of good.   Not sure if vacuum emissions drastically improved during this time and/or the CR changes are making emissions distinctions harder to measure.  More likely both factors are working in concert. 

Carmine D.

OK I'll admit I only scanned this thread but I don't know of 1 bagless system that is a sealed system. Can you even make a bagless into a sealed system. It would take a ton of screws and much better seals that's for sure.

procare wrote:
Tell me Einstein,

If a hole is drilled in the side of a Dyson clear bin or through the drop away lid, does it blow (exhaust dust into a room) or does it suck (dust into the vacuum)?

I say you’re full of$hit and a con.

The so-called dust you observe around the lid is residual dust after a bins contents are emptied and not wiped away.  When a Dyson is turned on the drop away door pulls inwardly (towards the suction motor) and any layperson reading this can observe this for his/herself.  The only leaking is me posting (leaking) how the con is done.

Could you name your money making brands here and on this public forum...    I'd like to rip them and their price points apart.

DysonInventsBig wrote:
No Dubber, Procare is right,after 4 months the spine behind the dust bin is filthy due to the seals ,but so wasnt a REGINA brooms except they only costed 20 bucks

mole wrote:

While I got the bulk of the dirt out of the pet smelly DC07 cyclones, I could not get all out [year 3 of a 5 year warranty].  Just doesn't lend itself to allow for a total cleaning.  Worse designed bagless in the industry because the cyclones can't be thoroughly cleaned of its dust and dirt.  No doubt the reason it is discontinued and the filter cleaning maintenance schedules reduced in half on all future dyson models.

Carmine D.

PS:  Is it still the case that a new cyclone assembly in the DC07 and DC14 runs about $100?

mole wrote:

Troll,

You’ve been posting here for years and you’ve yet to name your vac’s and price points.  Turn-a-bout is fair play….  I’m confident I can make your vac’s look ancient (cause they are) and price points look idiotic (cause they are).

Here is how your con works…  when the user empties the bins contents and does not wipe away any dust from the outside of the drop away lid - this dust (very small amount) then migrates.  My Dyson's show zero dust migrating, cause wiping dust off the lid is fast n easy to do.   Dude, I know you’re a con and thank you for the opportunity to demonstrate it so (the majority of your industry as so).

It's not personal, it's just business.

Dib-stir for years you've never answered any questions about what exactly is your business here.  Always hiding behind: I don't cast my pearls among the swine.  Well, try a new tact: Tell the swine what you have to offer/do and let the swine decide if you have pearls of wisdom or just pebbles of sand.

Carmine D.

O.k. Dubber you asked for it,you want to talk about uprights,canister power nozzles,central vacuums,attachment kits, uprights with on board tools,bagged ,bagless,

central vacuum kits,airflow,bearings,cfm,cords and cordwinders, plasti flex,or flexaust hoses, the bore diameters,  electronic control boards.

I sell bosch formulas bsg71360 for 299.99 on line, stillmake a Cnote on it, MSRP is 499.00 . SO whats dyson got for 299.00  a refurbed dc07 from 01 with a 6 month warranty.

I also own a electrolux silverado from 1982 that cleans as good or better than anything out there today.

Bring it on ROOKIE.

MOLE

mole wrote:
Well lets see if you can help this rookie out...  where's the leak con-man?  I've decimated all your anti-Dyson riddles and cons in the past...  so where's this leak you speak of?  Or...  Why not give Procare a call and work the con out and then reply.

Rookie

The seals that leak are on the sides of the machine on the tubes that run up to the bin there is one on each side,After a while they dry rot from the heat generated by the machine and the dirt blowing at them. Do you know what VITON is???

Or maybe the one that runs up the side of the brushbar housing you know the clear one thats so cheap  after 2 years sand blows thru it.

How come the dc18 baby ball sticks to the carpet and does not turn like Sir Jimmy says it should?

The machine is nothing but an overpriced, bagless panasonic, And i like and sell panasonic also And an 99.00 panasonicMC-Ug 581 will last and perform the same way for 5 to 7 years, with a belt and secondary filter change once a year.

Please take your  nonsense over the dyson only forum.

Thanks

MOLE

mole wrote:

MOLE:

I'm sure you noted that if you place a particle meter on the housing opening for the HEPA exhaust filter on DC07 and DC14 models [with the thumb tab releases] contaminated air leaks out [read dirty].  Terrible design.  The housing loosens and leaks dirty unfilter exhaust due to the normal back and forth cleaning strokes, turning cleaning motions, transporting vacuum and bumps/hits against floor boards and furniture legs.  The condition also causes loss of suction.  I tell all dyson users with these models to make sure the filter housing is tight with no play and looseness before and after each usage.  No doubt another reason dyson discontinued these models.

Carmine D.

mole wrote:

Dude, thanks for exposing another con...  overheated seals on the suction side (cold side) of the motor...  That's too funny!

Remove all seals upstream of motor and the thing will suck inward.  Yes it's a leak...a suction leak and not an exhaust leak.  There is a big difference.

The DC18 is pure genius and proven people-pleaser and huge moneymaker.  As long as vacuum makers keep hiring the 'can't get er done engineers' (can't invent) their dealers will have to keep lying of their astronomically high margin, tired and non proprietary products (aka boring, and pound for pound - work no better than they did decades ago vacuum cleaners).

I suggest you go underground, I feel like head hunting the lying-of-Dyson dealer cons.

The Rookie

Well exactly how does the fan reverse rotation by taking the upstream seal out. It must be for reverse cooling Is it a 3 channel or 4 channel fan?

Why does dog and human hair lodge in the hepa filter when its suppose to not get by the level3 cyclones, you know the the ones that block within 6 months.

They have a nice long cord though,and kinkless too. I suggest you look for another line of work..........ROOKIE.

MOLE

mole wrote:

I just have to say that you sir, are VERY wrong about your statements; I know people who've had Dysons for a while and NO dry rotting EVER occures. It's TREATED RUBBER, no dry rot will EVER occur! At least not from small amounts of "heat" from the motor INTAKE, if there even is ANY! I mean, are you serious?! Finally, the technology and quality behind a Dyson is *FAR* better than any Panasonic out there. Don't be ridiculous.

mole wrote: Hertz wrote:

mole wrote:
Only at a conning Dyson competitor will the suction side of a vacuum cleaner blow dust (so-called leak into the environment).  Procare’s suction side blows is laughable too. 


Dyson Invents Big

Hertz wrote:

Having worked on many DC07 and DC14s that are still under warranty, I've concluded that the gaskets which seal the air intake/dirt paths are flimsy for the price of the vacuum.  If they have them.  [Some of the paths, like the air way U tube/joint have no gasket/seal.  Just plastic on plastic.]  Soleplate gaskets too, top and bottom?  Flimsy, and the cheapest and worse I've ever seen on soleplates on any vacuums in the industry.  They lose their shape in short order.  All these gasket seals are coated with dust/dirt that leaks out. They are out of shape from their original new condition.  They are chintzy and don't hold their form.  Period. 

Look at the bin holder cavity where the inlet/outlet tubes run up and down a DC07/DC14.  Especially after use.  Or when you remove to dump the bin.  What do you see? Honestly? The whole area is coated with dust and dirt.  The more dirt you pack in the bin, the more you'll find on the vacuum behind the bin.  Now, check the exhaust filters on any DC07 and 14 dyson vacuums that are used in homes with a pet[s].  What do you find?  Honestly?  You'll find pet hair.  Pet hair passes through the shroud and cyclones all the time on these models.  Hopefully the gasket and seal on the exhaust filter housing is tightly fitted.  Not loosened from use and movement [common problem], else it won't prevent the hair from leaking out into the room air before getting filtered. 

There are design/function shortcomings for these models to have been discontinued.  There are valid reasons that all the dyson models that came after these have filter cleaning and maintenance schedules that are halved in time from these.  Finally, there are legal reasons that these and other dyson vacuums no longer claim the mantra: Never clogs and never loses suction.  They never will again.

Pick your battles to fight and win.  DC07 and DC14 are over and done with.  They were taken off the market by Sir James and dyson.  White flagged.  Threw in the towel.  Scrubbed completely.  They're history now except for the poor buyers and users who got taken in by them. 

WRT later dyson models, both canns and uprights after DC07 and DC14, I can't offer any personal and professional experience, YET.  Except this observation which I'll share since you asked: While dyson currently offers free asthma and allergy kits on purchases of all new dyson vacuums, it is conspicuously silent and nebulous on the HEPA filtration specs and sealed clean air systems of its line up.  This begs the question: Why?  Dyson merely says the vacuums are rated asthma and allergy friendly by the BAF.  Whatever that means.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Not so in the UK; the DC14 Origin and DC14 Overdrive are two of the best selling models. They are even on the UK website which shows only current Dyson models that are being sold nationwide.

CarmineD wrote:

I can tell you from first hand observations that the seals are VERY high quality on Dyson machines. I haven't extensively examined the DC07 or 14, but on the 17 the seals are excellent. Yes, there is a small layer of dust on the seal, but nothing OUTSIDE of the seal; no dust re-enters the room, if so, then very little. They're high quality seals that are built to last. Again, I'm not too knowledgeable on the quality of the 07 and 14, but the 17 is a high quality machine that I've used in my own home and it has performed miraculously. One time it even filled the bin damn near to the brim even after vacuuming with my Kirby G4. Yes, you read it correctly. Amazing technology in these machines. Did you know that Dyson spends an average of $300,000 to design the mere BRUSHROLL in their machines? What other company does that? I'm sure there are some, but relatively few I bet. Also, check this link out: http://www.dustfluffgrit.blogspot.com/ Shows about Dysons engineering and research. Again, given that the DC07's and 14's are still available elsewhere in the world, I doubt they're really as flawed as you say. To me it seems as though you're biased, CarmineD.

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine, stop!  You’re embarrassing yourself!

Lets see…  you exhibit much Dyson-envy, narcissism and now the traits of a fool.  I just decimated and exposed the old-con…  Dyson’s leak (spew) dust on the suction side and here you are, 12 hrs later saying Dyson’s spew on the suction side too.  It’s over!  Your day in the sun (lying to make a buck - lying to a trusting consumer like you did as an independent dealer) is over.  Retire already!

Hertz wrote:

You asked the question here specifically about the DC07.  I answered you with personal and professional proof.  As have several others who are still active professionals in the industry.  If I [we] don't give you the answer you like and want, and that makes me [us] biased, then so be it.  I'm biased toward the truth.  As the saying goes, the truth hurts.

Carmine D.

Dib-stir, I retired with 55 years in the business to a comfortable life in the Las Vegas blue skies and abundant sunshine.  What is your claim to business fame here and anywhere beside spewing the same old dyson how great thou art lines?  As I recall you bought your dyson DC15, no longer made and marketed, for $300 on clearance sale years ago. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

No, you merely answered with text. That's not proof in the least. I'm telling you from MY experience that the Dyson seals are of GREAT quality and also letting you know how ridiculous it sounds for someone to mention that they will "dry rot." Foam dry rots, not rubber - at least not the kind Dyson seemingly uses. I'm telling YOU the truth that after multiple years of ownership of a DC17 by a family who uses it frequently (not mine, but a neighbors), and whom haven't even cleaned out the filter after a year or so until I told them about it - not ONE thing has gone wrong with it, it has seen abuse time and again - I even tried somewhat standing on it and it held up FINE, yes I knew that was kind of stupid considering it wasn't even mine, but I did it cautiously :P - and the seals and sole plate are still COMPLETELY intact. Again, I would just say you're biased, unless there's pictorial evidence of your claim.

vacmanuk wrote:

Dyson USA has the DC14 All Floors for $399.  The real question is how many at that price does it sell.  Most retailers who still have these oldies in stock sell them at discounts below the dyson MAP.  An good indication that they are going the obsolete route to oblivion for all the reasons already provided. 

Carmine D.

Hertz wrote:

I answered you about the seals and gaskets on the DC07 and DC14.  Once I have proof on the DC17, I'll draw conclusions on it and, if asked, report on them just as I did for you.  I would hope and trust after the shortfalls with DC07 and DC14, dyson got better. I have no proof yet that is the case for the gaskets and seals on the DC17.  I know from personal and professional readings that the brush roll on DC17's are superior to DC07 and DC14.  Consumer Reports confirms this too for DC17 with its test ratings.  Dyson does not call its system sealed.  A claim I'm sure it would make if it could just as others in the industry who can and do.

I don't have pictorial proof.  So sorry.  But, if I did, I suspect you would be doubtful of its authenticity.  Just as you and Dib-stir are not taking seriously Jerry Ruben's Youtube video for dyson.  Which can easily be reproduced and not a hoax.  I recall years ago our Forum Moderator here saying that he sees dirt on the DC07's air in/outlet tubes [behind the dirt bin] based on viewings of various display models in big box stores.  How does it get there? Leakage?  If I'm wrong maybe Mike W. will correct me.  Please do.  

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine,

It's over!  You've given away many con’s ways and their trickery’s and thrown many of your cohort independent vacuum cleaner dealer con-buddies under the bus and you've outlived your usefulness.  Look around; no consumer wants to talk with you!  Where are they?  By comparison, go to the site Gasko use to participate in and the dude is an icon amongst the consumer.  The consumer is a lot wiser (self-educated) than your old-school days.  No-doubt you turned off many consumers to the site.  How do I know?  Gasko's numbers are probably 200 to 1 (for ever 1 consumer who comes here seeking you out, he had 200 that sought him out).  You've outlived your usefulness...  you’re livin in the past, retire already - it's over!


Dyson Invents Big

Dib-stir, you keep telling me to retire.  I am retired.  Have been for over 3 years.  And loving it.  You keep making the threads here personal and attacking me rather than the facts.  You are living in the past.  Tom Gasko works for RICCAR/SIMPLICITY and has for a year or more.  Not dyson.  How about you? 

Carmine D.

Then if think so highly  of Tom ,why dont you go to work with him at TACONY.

Then you both can do oohs and ahhs and gaga over the vacuum collection that no one cares about.

BTW all this techno babble you and i spew about  cleaners means nothing to the avarage consumer,

What benefit does the product provide for the user that should be the foremost question.As long as the customer likes the machine thats all that matters.They dont care what we think about them.

I can hear aunt Tilly  rushing to the living room closet now because she just can't wait to clean her floors and scatter rugs.

Boy are you excited right about now Bonehead,

THE BEST CLEANER THAT A PERSON CAN USE IS THE ONE THEY CAN USE[GOT IT]'' GOOD.'''''

mole

mole wrote:

Hello MOLE:

I agree with you that vintage vacuums do not rank very high on the average consumer's list of interest items.  I suspect the same is true for new vacuums too.  Persons are much more interested to learn and know that Consumer Reports just put the Lexus [as in toyota] SUV GX 300, approximate price of $52,000, on its don't buy list.  That's a news item of interest to consumers.  Also, although predictions of first day sales of Apple iPads would hit 700,000 worldwide, only 300,000 were sold.  American consumers find that newsworthy. 

Carmine D.

mole wrote:

Thanks MOLE, that's really where it's at.  Bottom line, the larger part of Ameriican consumers and those elsewhere haven't a clue as to what they're buying -- or probbly even why -- when it comes to vacuum cleaners.  They either succumb to the dazzle of a sales pitch or an advetisement hypes, buy what their mom had or the neighbors have and, most likely, whatever fits the pocketbook. 

All they want is to have their expectations fulfilled -- namely clean lookng rugs and floors.  Whether by way of bags, no bags, cyclonics or even archaic methods, whatever -- as long as the dirt and lint vanish as they clean they've got no questions.  Their only ideal is acquiring such a miracle at the lowest price possible and life is great.

Including myself, there are those of us who get turned on by bells and whistles.  However, what is to be remembered is that simple tools, if properly made, can do the same work just as well.

Venson

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine,

Retire means to move away from your old con-ways...  what your selling here... your lies - is simply a looser, a dog, a disaster.  There's no money in you.  You need to retire from conning and move out of the way and let more intelligent and honest people speak.  You represent what not to do in life...  lies don't pay much.  What's the temp in Vegas today?....  lows of minus 10 and highs of 100 plus.  You're personal life is a disaster cause you chose a disastrous career (lying to the trusting consumer and lying of good corporations - who employee people and many with families).  You and Venson need to either get a room together, or start sending private emails, or get your own blog.  Model2 ‘s YouTube numbers are explosive and where is he?  Just like Ms. Consumer coming here seeking your advice, he too avoids you.  I say, you go and watch the number of new visitors go up.  And take the other con-dealers with you.


You're done and the numbers support this.  I say, block your IP, welcome the intelligent vacuum guy or gal to advise and watch Abby’s numbers rise.


Dyson Invents Big

DysonInventsBig wrote:

You do realize you're just rabidly ranting now don't you. Keeping this up may drive opposing viewpoints AWAY but it will not enhance yours.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hertz wrote:

Hertz

i would think that in some way....somehow any and all vacs would leak.  no matter who makes them.  A totally sealed system with no leaks whatsoever  that doesnt  lower performance would be impressive. The dc7 i once owned would leak a tiny bit  from time to time ..youd have to be looking for it to see it....leaked no more than my riccar 8925 or panasonic 585...but id have to say my oxygen 7020 is sealed up the best...but still leaks every once in a blue moon.

turtle

 . . .You and Venson need to either get a room together, or start sending private emails, or get your own blog.  . .

DIB -- I am doing this again as I had trouble getting a reply through with quote . . .

Gee whiz, I'm genuinely hurt.  I thought you liked me.  As for hitting the trail . . .

You have displayed little knowledge as to vacuum cleaner manufacture or the efficient use of them and you're still here.  In the process your deliberations as to who should stay or go, have you considered that you  have been allowed your criticisms and, without obvious intervention, also the liberty to call names and be insulting.  I'm happy to say the larger part of us still seek the high road no matter what we trhink or may be tempted to say.

As far as I'm concerned, say what you want, do what you want.  Things only get easier to ignore.  Besides which, they say -- no cross, no crown.

Venson

Lucky1 wrote:

Lying is an opposing viewpoint?  HALARIOUS!

You guys never quit.   Where’s your outrage at Porcare’s, Carmine’s, and Mole’s lies of the suction side of a Dyson vacuum leaking dust into the environment?  This is an old-school con.  Going after and exposing the lying of Dyson - the competing manufacturers and their representatives (the competing independent vacuum dealer) is long overdue.  Is this a problem?

Dib-ster:

The suction side [inlet dirt tube path] on DC07 and DC14 models empties into the dirt bin during operation.  A poor fit from the seal/gasket between the two [dirt bin and dirt tube] leaks dirty air into the room and onto the back of bin and vacuum, where the bin assembly sits.  Simple statement of fact.  For homes with pets, it's very common to find pet hair and dander build up and coating on this opening.  It sticks between the dirt path opening and the dirt bin and on the gaskets due to poor seal/fits on the DC07 and DC14 models.  Simple statement of the facts.  Hardly sealed atoll.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I do think this site will begin making its real money when your IP is blocked.  Again, Gasko gets about two hundred questions (from consumers) to your one.  Model2 has around 100,000 hits on his DC24 Youtube video.  I say the big money comes after the con’s are reeled in and/or blocked from this site.

retardturtle1 wrote:
Retardturtle,

Can you demonstrate a Dyson leaking dust (into a room) upstream from the suctioning motor as Mole, Carmine and Procare claim?

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Dib

cant say i can...i was given the dc7 in perfect condition and gave it away  as such.  i had it less than a year...vacuum everyday with it...no pets.

In that time of use  thats all i ever saw...was the tiny bit from time to time... no extended  long term personal use knowledge beyond that.

The dysons i have worked on in the past were way beyond words and a couple belonged to an indoor petting zoo.....and animal shelters. so a

little dust leak was the least of their problems.

turtle

DysonInventsBig wrote:
retardturtle1 wrote:

Retardturtle,

Between Carmine, Mole, Venson (aka Severus), Procare and Lucky I’d say they have about 150-175 years of vacuum cleaner understanding and history between them.  Over and over they want to tell stories of how the Dyson is leaking dust on the suction side (upstream of the suction motor) and they want others to believe it. - And now you’re doing the same.  I say it’s an old con and boldface lie.  Why not help your cohorts and shoot video demonstrating this anomaly…  dust leaking (dust exhausting/being blown from the suction side) into a home or into someone’s lungs.  And good luck, cause you’ll need it…  it’s akin to pushin rope.

Dib-stir:

DC07 and DC14 leak air/dirt from both intake and exhaust sides.  As such, by definition it is not a sealed system.  But, IT DOESN"T CLAIM TO BE.  All the proof and videos in the world won't change your view [not with your head up Sir Jame's you know what].  Just as we who you site here with contempt, couldn't change the minds of those who came before you who you always praise.  Recall all the heated threads about dyson's puny brush roll and gawdawful clutch.  They defended these too and ridiculed us.  They said the same about us and our conclusions then that you are saying now.  Recall: Never clogs and never loses suction.  Along with lifetime belt and filters.  Lots of heated discussions here among them and us too about those old dyson false claims.  Bye bye Sir James.  Bye bye DC07.  Soon, bye bye DC14.  Thanks for the memories.

Carmine D.

PS:  What ever happended with that 2007 dyson dish washer patent?  You know.  Anything yet?  It's been 3 years almost and 500 engineers later.  Nothing to show but a paper patent?

retardturtle1 wrote:

Hello turtle:

I agree.  Bigger problems with DC07 and DC14 are: weak brush bar, gawdawful clutch, convoluted dirt path, difficult hose and attachment use, unreasonable[6-9 months is much too long] filter cleaning schedules.  Plus the claims, subsequently dropped by dyson/revised after legal actions:  Never clogs, never loses suction.  Finally, the high prices which is hurting dyson sales at the big box retail stores.  If not dropped much lower, the competition will run dyson out of dodge.

Carmine D.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. For a start Dyson may have done little success in the U.S according to you but worldwide the patents and designs will go on for years until of course Dyson may well think about changing strategy and give up making vacuum cleaners altogether. The rivals such as Vax, TTi, Hoover etc - they're all in catch up mode and using current cyclonic systems that still need two filters washed and cleaned for optimum hygiene. Then again the owners for most of the time won't touch the filters until suction starts to weaken or until something goes wrong. That's when people start to question the brand or when something isn't as durable. It is also down to the brand/manufacturer - currently I'm in discussion with Vax who have failed to point out that the filter shroud in their Mach Air can be twisted and unlocked to be cleaned out - yet it mentions nothing of this in the user manual.

This morning for example I spent discussing  a problem of "suction problems," with a woman I don't know on the internet. I came across a review she had written about her Dyson upright. The model concerned isn't unknown to me but I did find it unusual that she moaned about the machine's lack of suction and hunger for drive belts until I asked her what is lying around her carpets for a brush bar to be attracted to it. The answer was clear as day; wool that she knits with, curtains that have tie backs that drag on the floor and bits of carpet her husband can't be arsed to nail to the floor. It's no wonder that her new product has a hunger for drive belts if stuff like that is lying on the floor.

Her next issue was with the filter design as it "keeps clogging," and her biggest mistake (and I dont know why owners do it, but they seem to think vacuums dry out filters) was to wash the filter shroud and then just place it into the machine, thinking that it would work. The clogged dirt that she couldn't be arsed to take out then clung to the wet shroud, the water leaked into the motor and she questions why there is smoke coming out?! No wonder Dyson didn't honour her guarantee!

The fact is that despite the problems Dyson has with "never loses suction," owners aren't as honest as they appear. Sure if it clogs the first time you switch it on or the filter doesn't last as long as the manual suggests it all comes down to simple maintenance and that is something owners won't do despite the user manual suggesting it should be done. The second aspect is that some people just don't realise how dirty their homes are! I've seen it working with a cleaning firm when people are shocked of the amount of rubbish that comes out of their carpets never mind the upholstery they sit on daily. Dysons in general homes aren't emptied until the bins are bursting with dirt and I think personally that's terribly wrong with owners expectations that their vacuums should work all of the time. That's what you get if you advertise machines that "never lose suction," - inherent laziness due to the owner who can't be arsed to empty their vacuum cleaner or check the filters and hose/dust channels.

CarmineD wrote:

I can agree that the brush bars and clutches were overall simply decent quality - and low quality given the price - but aside from that they are great machines. However, I find your claim that they will be "run out of dodge" highly amusing considering they're still doing GREAT even in this economy; Dyson isn't going anywhere anytime soon buddy.

vacmanuk wrote:

Excellent points about why Dyson dislodged their claims from their advertising campaigns vacmanuk. Are you reading this CarmineD?! Dysons WILL NOT CLOG under normal use or if properly maintained - which isn't of course to say if you suck up a lego it won't clog - which happened to my neighbors DC17 that I nicely unclogged for them - - but, under normal use a Dyson WILL NOT clog, however given these claims the average consumer wistfully never maintains their arguably high quality appliance and thus - like with *ANYTHING* - it will eventually break down.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB, dude, you need to seriously jump off Dysons junk sometimes man. I like you, and your passion for Dysons which I share, but you need to realize retardturtle is just being completely honest. His point WAS IN DEFENSE OF DYSON - if there was even any side he was trying to take - in that ANY machine will leak a little bit of dust, and his Dyson - only leaked a *SMALL* amount, and for the engineering, overall quality, performance, and features of a Dyson, I would say a *SMALL* amount is perfectly acceptable. Besides, I have a feeling newer machines are better sealed. I mean, they DO receive approvals by Asthma and Allergy foundations. I would assume they says something about their filtration. Also, FOR ANY OF YOU DOUBTING DYSONS FILTRATION, EVEN MIELE ACKNOWLEDGES THEIR COMPARATIVELY GREAT FILTRATION! Read: http://www.mieleusa.com/images/mieleusa/miele_filtration/emission-chart.jpg A Dyson DC25 WAS PROVEN BY MIELE to capture more fine particles than a frickin SEBO!!! IF that's the case, I can only applaud Sir James Dyson over and over for his quality workmanship and engineering on his high quality product.

As I understand these are the facts and circumstances that brought down dyson's mantra: Never clogs, never loses suction.

• A 2006/07 ruling by the ASA [Advertising Standards Agency].  
• About 3 dozen disgruntled dyson buyers/users, maybe more, joined by 2 vacuum companies filed a class action grievance against dyson. 
• The crux of their grievance was that dyson vacuum filters clogged and the vacuums lost suction, contrary to dyson's printed claims to the contrary. 
• The ASA, a European adjudication body for consumers and manufacturers/their products, agreed with dyson buyers and users and the vacuum companies. 
• In its decision to Sir James and dyson, the ASA advised dyson under penalty of legal actions for non-comformance, to cease and desist from using the mantra in written format. 
• Sir James and dyson complied.  
• The dyson claims went away. 
• In addition, dyson reduced the time periods for required filter maintenance from 6-9 months to 2-3 months on future models. 
• Dyson also made its 5 year limited warranty contingent on users following the new filter service/maintenance instructions.

Carmine D.

Hertz wrote:

You do well to follow your own advice.  I never said dyson's filtration was bad.  I answered your questions.  DC07 and DC14 do not have completely sealed vacuums/systems.  That's a fact.  I recused myself on other/later dyson models.  I said I don't know for sure and don't have enough proof, YET.  I said that I would hope and trust dyson improved with time.  Based on the fact that dyson improved its brush rolls.  That's either a neutral statement or a compliment, surely not biased.  I further said that dyson doesn't claim its vacuums to have completely sealed air intake/exhaust systems.  That's a fact.  A claim which I said dyson would surely make if it were the case.  That's an opinion. 

BTW, just in case you missed an important point in turtle's commentary, I'll reiterate here for you.  Turtle gifted his dyson DC07 away after a year for being duly under impressed by it for the price.  I agree with turtle and others on this point for reasons already provided:  Very weak brush roll and gawdawful clutch.  You agreed with me too: You conceded that DC07 and DC14 have weak brush rolls and the clutches are terrible.  Does this make me biased or honest?

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

I have not read anywhere that a Dyson is a SEALED SYSTEM vacuum. Where did you get the information that it is? Try taking a Particle meter to a Dyson and see for yourself that they leak.

How much are particle meters anyway? The thing is despite a particle meter being used, you'd have to do it in controlled areas that aren't polluted and even Miele's fan man on You Tube's particle meter picks up a lot of dust in his shop at times before his meter bit is put at the vent of the active/HEPA filter exhausts on the Miele.

I excerpted this from the Allergy Buyers Web Site, not MIELE's site.  It was posted here initially by SEVERUS.  I've highlighted the relevant part/point of discussion.

Miele S7280 Salsa in a hot mango red color will add some fun to your vacuuming experience. The luxury S7280 line of upright vacuums feature a new innovative design with a swivel neck, 360° swivel casters, retracting rear wheels, and ergonomic handle for maximum agility and minimum exertion from the user. Its sealed HEPA filtration system is impeccable and bags and filters are extremely easy to replace. Perfect for all floor types and above floor cleaning featuring automatic carpet height adjustment, variable suction adjustment, fingertip brush roll and power controls, 12 ft extra reach hose, telescopic suction wand and 3 onboard accessory tools! These vacuums are a complete package with all the necessities and more!

Impeccable is defined as faultless [as without any faults], flawless [as without any flaws].  Simple and strong words. 

MIELE product literature claims its vacuum products have A SEALED SYSTEM with the designation [TM].  If I'm not wrong, the TM designation makes the claim legitimate. 

Carmine D. 

Mm id like to see the same test with Miele's micro filter!

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine, I do follow my own advice well - at least in this sense - to not get overly defensive. At least compared to DIB, would you not agree? He seems like a good guy, but he seems to get a little too ridiculous sometimes, but he seems to be a good guy overall and does make some good points at times. Carmine, my main point is that you ARE BIASED to say that the seals are "chintzy" and of "low-quality." - They're anything BUT!! They're very high quality, treated rubber gaskets that last a good 5 - 10 years without a problem. They're sole plate, while possibly weaker on older models, is still a quality piece as you have MANY, MANY people that have had DC01's, DC07's, and DC14's for years upon years w/o trouble. Yet you call say that it warps and is low quality. If that were the case, then years of service that do occur from this product would not be put forth. You sir, are evidently biased, at least based on those claims.

Hertz wrote:

At least you have conceded the soleplate gaskets are "weaker."  Though I still say "chintzy" and the worse I've seen in the industry on vacuums with the DC07 and 14 prices.  One could argue, with merit, that if the soleplate gaskets are "weaker" [to be as kind as you with words] then the likelihood that the other gaskets/seals on these models are the same: "weaker."  Especially since the vacuum systems are not sealed and leak on both the intake and exhaust sides of the vacuums. 

Carmine D. 

Hertz wrote:

Hertz,

Retardturtle, earns a paycheck by selling competing to Dyson wares.  He has played the ‘it’s just my opinion – card’ when he’s trashed-talked Dyson in the past (it’s demonstrable). - And when he does trash-talk, he’s fair game.  When he and the others say Dyson’s leak dust (back into a persons home and into their lungs) and cannot prove it – he and the others are fair game.

 

If someone said Hertz does a half-as job but all is well cause others do a half-as job too, this could hurt your potential to earn.  Anyone who attacks another mans ability to earn (Dyson) and does so without proof – is fair game and I’ll gladly go after em.

 

Dude, many other vac-dealers and historians can smoke all or most of these guys and they don’t have to lie.  But they are chased away by the regular bad-mouther’s here.  Let me give you fair warning…  if you dare attack any of there wares, they will go after you as they have them.  Fact.

 

Dyson Invents Big

CarmineD wrote:

One such as yourself could (and soes) argue with a biased opinion.  Of course using your logic Orecks are a POS because I found two to be very very inferior to the DC07.

Just another question.

Would all of this back and forth you know good no good good quality,bad quality,to hard to use easy to use sanitary un sanitary,etc,

Leaks doesnt leak if the PRICE was where it should be?

What ever happened to the line ,its not a bad machine for the money.

BTW the upright market is down bigtime,They are just user unfriendly in household applications.

Hertz wrote:

Hertz, Carmine has preached gloom and doom for Dyson for years.  Each new Hoover was to be the demise of Dyson.  The Hoover "Z' was to be the vacuum of all vacs.  Carmine bought one and gifted it away in short time.  They are still available in the salvage/junk stores and only slightly used.  Dyson is going strong and Hoover failed.

Dyson cost Carmine a lot of embarrasment a few years back and he has a vendetta to destroy them.

Oh How I laughed!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEKv3R6M1k4

vacmanuk wrote:

Thanks vacmanuk.  That's about how it goes.  "I buy it, bring it, home and then I have to push it too?"

Best,

Venson

HARDSELL wrote:

ORECK has made and marketed the same variation on the theme for over 45 years.  The DC07 is discontinued in less than 4 years.  Soon the DC14.  Why?

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Like the dyson DC11 for $500?  You're right that I predicted it would die an ignoble death and be pulled from the USA retailers' shelves.  It was.  Just like DC07 now and soon the DC14. 

Actually I bought, used and gifted away 2 HOOVER Z's.  Both are still in use.  One in a commercial venue has been performing well since November 2007.  It's had one service in the all the time.  Simple and easy to work on.  Many of its features are now in regular use on other vacuums in the industry. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

HS:

What are your comments on this? 

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

Looks like Bett got the ORECK knack, just like my dear Wife.

Carmine D.

vacmanuk wrote:

Particle counters vary much in range from $1,600-$5,000 You don't need a controlled area to get a good idea if a system leaks or not as the meter will give a reading and if that reading rises you know there is exhaust. I have personally used one on a HEPA installed Miele and can report that the meter reads ZERO same with IQ Air's Air Purifiers. I have not used it on a Dyson but I have never seen or heard of one that WAS tested that does not leak. Miele does not claim a zero reading with the Air Clean Filter.

CarmineD wrote:
Sorry Carmine but you can't compare Oreck with Dyson. Totally different vacuums. For a start the Dysons are all clean fan systems.

Lucky1 wrote:
Thanks for that info, Lucky! Im sure I read somewhere that the particle counters have to be done in a controlled environment. Anyone know roughly what a particle count is for the Air Clean filter?

CarmineD wrote:
That was so long ago, but I think I remember.  Before the dyson came to the U.S. and shortly after it introed, T.G. spoke of how wonderful the dyson was.  He said that the multicyclones, on the dyson, were so great that NOTHING passes the cyclones.  I knew this was bull.  I checked dysons by removing the dirtbin/cyclone assembly and looked at the inside of the tube(exhaust end) that runs to the premotor filter.  Fine dust coated the inside tube.  This was the case on all dysons.  What I proved was that debris does get by the cyclones and the bin does not need to be overfilled to do so.  I do not recall saying anything about dust on the outside of the machine.

Dyson vacuum cleaners do well at filtering  while vacuuming.  The problem is when the dirtbin is emptied.  The dirt does fly, even though some led others to believe differently.  JD's company even knew the dust would fly, because he said to put a bag around the bin when emptying it.

vacmanuk wrote:

My point was that ORECK despite HS's attacks and disfavor over its operation has passed the test of time for more than 45 years with little to no major changes to its design and function.  A testament in my opinion to its classic appeal across several generations of users.

Carmine D.

Mike_W wrote:

Thank you for the clarification.  I opine then based on your observations that the filtration of the cyclones is less than efficient than Tom Gasko lead us to believe.  This could account too for the more frequent cleaning maintenance shedules on dyson pre-post motor filters after DC07/14 models.  Which could also suggest the cyclone filtration on the later dyson models is still no better than DC07/14.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:
I have a problem w/ the example you are using.  T.G. is not a good example to prove your point.  I know the site you are referring to.  He encourages them to purchase bagless Euro Pros, Bissell and HOOVERs.  What?  Say it isn't so.  You see, some of us remember the past. 

He put down all these companies and instead promoted dyson.  I evaluated the new(at the time) Euro Pro Infinity and its multicyclone design.  He put it down.  He used it to pick up ashes, then took it back to the store.  Later, he would speak highly of it on the site you are speaking of.  The same was true of the HOOVER and Bissell.  He does not show up now, when people are having problems with their HOOVER Whisper.

He has told people, on the forum you are talking about, to tap the dirt bin, of a bagless vacuum, on the ground to dislodge any dirt.  For the record, I would never advise to tap the bin on the ground.  When the dyson first came to the U.S., I had said that fine dirt will cake in the cyclones and center tube.  I told people, on the previous forum, to tap the side of the cyclone assembly to dislodge fine dust.  Carl, remember him, used my advice and found it to be true.  T.G. did not like that.  Later, I would tell people that if any debris lodges against the Hoover Fusion cyclone, all they would have to do is shake the dirtbin in a downward motion.  The debris would fall without mess.  Then just dump the contents into the trash.  He, and some dyson people, said that debris always stuck and had to be removed with hands.

The people on that site wanted cheap, so he told them what they wanted to hear.  Notice how little he talked about dyson compared to HOOVER and Euro Pro Infinity canister/upright?  Quite a few knew who he was and made sure they made a point in bring his name up.  You were there.  What did you say?  Motorhead was there.

 It is fine if you have a point to make, but I do not like your example, because it does not prove your point.

DysonInventsBig wrote:
Mike_W wrote:

Actually I believe I gave a splendid example/s.  Gasko could be giving the worst advice in the world and yet he had (I’ve not looked an quite a while) a following 100-200 times greater than the rare consumer who’s dared to show their face here seeking advice on anything.  Numbers don’t lie, when two vacuum dealers are freely giving advice online and one is ignored and one is sought out.  That’s enough proof for me (and for most).   Carmine, and others blasted the Abby newbie when he had the audacity to post his liking for the DC26.  He posted once, was blasted (or topic blasted) and left.

 

Again, Model2 was chased out and the guy had 100,000 views just on his DC24 Youtube video.  Carmine, Mole, Procare, Lucky1, Retardturtle and even Venson/Severus use this site as a anti-Dyosn platform for two primary reasons…  lie of Dyson (for sport) and to lie of Dyson (for profit).  Any outsider reading these boldface lies and attacks on Dyson no-doubt stays away.

 

Do you think Carmine, Mole, Lucky1, Procare, Retardturtle and/or Venson/Severus can prove that Dyson vacuums leak dust (blow dust) from the suction/upstream side?  I don’t.

Consider for a moment Dib-stir [if you can get unfixated on people] what is worse in the scheme of product sales/success.  Multi-cyclones that filter less efficiently than the dyson braggarts led buyers and consumers to believe.  Or, weak gaskets/seals that can easily be replaced with better ones to prevent leakage?  Even you, with little or no knowledge of the vacuum industry at all, if you are honest, can answer this question correctly.

Carmine D.

If at first you don't succeed, try, try again . . .

Actually I believe I gave a splendid example/s.  Gasko could be giving the worst advice in the world and yet he had (I’ve not looked an quite a while) a following 100-200 times greater than the rare consumer who’s dared to show their face here seeking advice on anything.  Numbers don’t lie, when two vacuum dealers are freely giving advice online and one is ignored and one is sought out.  That’s enough proof for me (and for most).   Carmine, and others blasted the Abby newbie when he had the audacity to post his liking for the DC26.  He posted once, was blasted (or topic blasted) and left. Again, Model2 was chased out and the guy had 100,000 views just on his DC24 Youtube video.  Carmine, Mole, Procare, Lucky1, Retardturtle and even Venson/Severus use this site as a anti-Dyosn platform for two primary reasons…  lie of Dyson (for sport) and to lie of Dyson (for profit).  Any outsider reading these boldface lies and attacks on Dyson no-doubt stays away. Do you think Carmine, Mole, Lucky1, Procare, Retardturtle and/or Venson/Severus can prove that Dyson vacuums leak dust (blow dust) from the suction/upstream side?  I don’t.

DIB I don't see numbers meaning much in this case at all. The web is full of of people with high hit counts that give all kinds of advice. Whether the world is better for it has yet to be determined. What's called for in choosing a vacuum is clear knowledge of one's needs and plain facts.

By the way, what's a 100,000 web hits worth? Per the U.S. World and Population Clocks ( http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html ) we have about 309,000,000 inhabitants in a country where individual CD sales are not considered even fair to middling until well past the 500,000 peices mark. Speaking percentages, the 100,000 hits does not appear phenomenal.

No, personally I do not care much for Dyson and never did. I remain not much impressed with its performance and have owned bagless vacs that pleased me more whatever they may have or may have not borrowed technologically. Neither do I like Dyson's design or attachment set up – and never will.

Still I have no reason to lie and there is nothing I stand to gain by doing so. Yes, I have my ambitions and it's my hope that any advice I may have given here has been constructively helpful to all those asking but I have not received or been offered remuneration by any vac manufacturer or kindred business entity. No way in the least do I presume I've scored any points even with vac makers I often speak well of. AND – not a soul has sent me any freebies for all my yakking. My conscience is clear.

My opinions are pretty even handed and, I believe, well-founded not by number quotes but by use of more brands and machines than I can count and the experience that comes from that. If I said Dyson is over-priced I have also said that Miele, Aerus and any number of other vac manufacturers have gone way overboard on their pricing in consideration of what's being offered. I've followed suit regarding issues of performance and design.

It's foolish to harp on one specific brand as there has been no be all, end all vacuum cleaner yet made. Vacuum buyers are inundated with insignificant and confusing numbers -- amps, watts, air watts, microns, range – to leave them too stunned for a clear view of the really big numbers on price tags.

People looking for decent vacuums don't need to play number or name games. They need sound advice as to what vacuum may best provide good performance, reasonably easy use and durability per the individual budget and living situation.

Whether Dyson leaks or not is not much in my concern. Whatever the case, if someone feels they have to have a Dyson that's fine by me too. It's better to buy whatever vacuum you feel you like enough to use frequently. That will help keep flooring and furniture in your home looking better and lasting longer. We've been telling you that all along but I guess you don't believe us. Not my problem.

Venson

I'm not sure where I have ever told a lie about Dyson...???? If you point it out I will address it.

Dustmite ,

It's somewhat of a waste of my valuable time to respond to your ridiculous claims.   You seem to have the preposterous idea that disagreeing with you is the same as attacking James Dyson and/or his products.  I have respect for James Dyson, and I have been very fair in my assessments of his products.  You are no James Dyson.  You are a scoundrel that attacks and insults everyone on this forum, and then wonders why you're so unpopular.  You have no objectivity.  You are like an ostrich with your head buried in the dirt and lint of a Dyson dirt canister.  You insult every brand but Dyson, including those that are far superior to Dyson, and wonder why your ideas are ridiculed.

I have stated that Dysons leak as well as other bagless vacs. It may not be as bad as others but it does. The Dyson machines have continually got less power in airwatts than they did at the start. DC-07 274 Air Watts Power and come down since.The facts on power come from Dyson. In looking at the warranty for 5 years the customer should know wear items are not covered. Such as the so called lifetime filter, brushroll, belt carbon brushes in the motor or anything else that wears out. That is an awful lot of things not covered. Commercial use is definitely out. One other upright had a clutch system for it's belts and that was the first Electrolux upright (Now Aerus) back in the1974-1984 time period. I sold many of them and never had a problem with them. They were a magnetic clutch and the belts were cogged belts. Never replaced a one during the life of the ones sold. I just replaced brushrolls and brushroll bearings. Dyson in your book may be your cleaner of choice but my working on them and /or going against them in demoes, I choose the bagged vacuum anyday.

procare wrote:

Either your wrong about your accusations of the warranty, or they'll honor any part not specified in the warranty because my neighbor had their DC17 motor bar stop spinning to to either a broken driver motor, gear box, or belt (whatever it was, the brush bar wouldn't work), and Dyson fixed it free of charge. I've read other reviews stating how Dyson will cover stuff not in their warranty, but five years even on only non-wear parts is still good, if that's even the case. Now, of course I have read reviews of Dysons help line being a joke, but I've read about just as many that say completely the opposite, and given that I've called Dyson myself and EVERY TIME WITH IN FIVE MINUTES I was talking to a FRIENDLY AMERICAN voice - I would say to have confidence in Dyson for helping their customers.

Hertz wrote:
BTW

Who ever claimed that the upright leaked on the suction side.I think Dubber spun it into that.We all know that they leak  thru the cyclones and into the lifetime hepa filter,

Just look for yourself and see how the dust bin rocks side to side when mounted into the reciever.


MOLE

mole wrote:
MM just look for yourself when dust statically clings to the outer side of the acrylic bin once it has been emptied!

To be fair guys we can go on and on about Dyson filtration until the cows come home and who said what and who is incorrect. End of the day Dysons and any other bagless cyclonic just isn't healthy. I've raised this issue before and I'll say it again - bags are healthier even if they do clog up and if the medical profession such as surgeries and hospitals still use vacuums with bags then there's something in that use (surely it costs more?) alone to why bagged vacuums are better, and even if buyers have to buy bags, they still have to buy drive belts for other Dyson models or anything else that happens to go wrong with it.

vacmanuk wrote:

Add too the dyson multi-cyclones are not as effective for filtering fine dirt as paper bags.  Dyson braggarts claimed otherwise.  Better than bags.  Health issues aside for a moment, although I agree with you and they are important, the shortcomings of bagless cyclones, dyson included, is their inferior vacuum operation/performance.  To me, this is the issue of importance.

Sir James, and his followers, took HOOVER execs on for passing on/over dyson's multi-cyclones.  Even in written product literature included along with new dysons.  The reason, we were lead to believe by Sir James and his fans, was the vested interest HOOVER and other vacuum makers had in profiting from the sale of bags.  Was this true?  No.  But it helped sell dysons, at least initially.  The truth is bags are better performers for filtration than bagless.  Period.  End of story.

Carmine D.

mole wrote:

Lucky1 wrote:

Severus wrote:

vacmanuk wrote:
Health hazard?  That's funny.  What I can count on this forum with all it's experts...  no solutions, not a one will be offered to help the public (multi-millions) empty their Dyson's quickly, safely and cleanly.  Thanks for your help.  I'm always amazed of all the UK'ers who willfully dump on Dyson.

vacmanuk wrote:
Often I see [cheap] bagless conversations (the downsides) intermingled with Dyson conversations.  I see this a lot from the bagged vacuum selling independent dealers.  Unfair and con-like.

mole wrote:

Severus wrote:
Venson,  Do you think I'm having a conversation with you and the others here only?  Web crawlers gobble my stuff up.

Venson wrote:
Venson,

Never mind the numbers (big numbers)... that's funny.

DIB wrote:

Venson,

Never mind the numbers (big numbers)... that is so funny.  I guess, low numbers is something your accustomed to.

Hiya DIB,

Paris Hilton's site gets lots of hits but the value in that is also dubious.

How low or high numbers are is a matter of interpretation or spin -- ask the guys in big finance.  I think 100,000 of anything stands for a lot but  may not mean anything when the issues of volume and actual worth are brought to the table.  It also takes more than one individual's "say-so" to prove that.  You given no proper stats as to what these numbers represent or amount to on the money end.  How many additional and actual Dyson sales did the 100,000 hits lead to?

By the way, you make me laugh too but I wish you did less at your expense.

Venson

.

Be careful where this thread goes.  It is moving away from the topic towards forum posters.

Moderator

Venson wrote:

You win Venson - less is more.  Knowing that after yours and Carmines astronomically high posting numbers (far more than all) produces a zero/near zero consumer response is proof of this commitment - less is more.

Dyson Invents Big

DIB wrote:

You win Venson - less is more.  Knowing that after yours and Carmines astronomically high posting numbers (far more than all) produces a zero/near zero consumer response is proof of this commitment - less is more.
Dyson Invents Big

*******************************************************************************************************************************

"You always end with a jade's trick.  I know you of old."

Venson

Venson wrote:

I have to admit, I had to look up the definition of a Jades Trick.  Well, I’ll just try to remember zero (consumers seeking you out) is greater than the 100,000 views of the DC24 (YouTube video).

 

Are these below interviews somehow a Jades Trick and/or should they be ignored (by the public)?-  If so, please explain the how’s and why’s.

What does this have to do with the original question of how sealed are Dysons?

DIB I'm really asking....Is Dyson a Sealed System? A simple Yes or No is fine.

Mike_W wrote:

Dude I really don't even care anymore haha. I find this whole thread amusing and interesting, but I found out the Dysons DO have - reportedly - GREAT filtration, and that should be good enough for 99% of the people out there. So I'm fine and happy about that, haha.

Also, for all those who don't believe in Dysons durability, check out these reviews by people who have had them for all well over 6 years, some even 15 years old! http://reviews.argos.co.uk/1493-en_gb/4064389/reviews.htm

vacmanuk wrote:

What a con vacmanuk...  I've been responding and attacking the lie and the 'defy physics con' of Dyson suction side leaks (dust into a home and breathed into lungs).  I've also been attacking the credibility of those making such claims.  Is this a problem?

You’re getting on this conversation awfully cheap.  Trust me, I’ve got plenty to say of the UK'ers 'blame Dyson whiners' - perhaps for another time.  In the meantime, maybe anti-UKgrowth would be a better descriptor for a user name.

DysonInventsBig wrote:
MM Im sure you have. But then I've got plenty to say regarding U.S buyers and what they are conned into believing. You have already said plenty and in past posts it is clear that nothing else beats your love of Dyson vacs and I admire that. Perhaps you should change your name to DysonIncitesBull$#%* because for the most part all you seem to do is argue your case about Dyson with very little back up and proposed theories in how people on here jump to their own decisions. I suggest you take a feather and tie it onto the outside of your Dyson bin, and if you have a cylinder/canister model tie it onto the back of where the cable recesses. Make a video of it. If it blows gently then guess what - the Dyson leaks air.

vacmanuk wrote:

Another UK vacman con.  It's probably just a feather that can fly.  After all, feathers do come off birds.  Dah!

Carmine D.

Well, tie tissue paper strands or toilet tissue - anything light that will detect the slightest bit of escaping air. Leave the vacuum stationery.

Do you know what..? I think I'll try it myself and put it on you tube.

vacmanuk wrote:

You can also use smoke or fog of some sort.  It's easily disturbed by air movement.  They use it or something similar when testing aerodynamic designs.

Venson

LOL I can see myself being overcome by incense at this rate, Venson!

vacmanuk wrote:

vacmanUK, I was being facetious.  Although, in the Jerry Ruben MIELE/dyson demo he does what you suggest.  He places some cotton like substance over the seal/housing of the filter and it flies into space.

WRT incense, good Catholic altar boy training allowed me to develop an immunity to the incense smell/smoke that still is effective today after all these years.  Nothing like first hand real life experience and training to last one's entire lifetime.  Live long live strong.

Carmine D.

vacmanuk:

So how rigorous is the testing by the British Allergy Foundation which certifies the filtration of the Dyson vacuums?   Has "Which?"  found any problems with Dyson's filtration?  I may be wrong, but I get the impression that the filtration testing that is done across the pond is a little more rigorous that what is done here.    I was a little surprised to see that almost every vacuum tested by Consumer Reports has an excellent score for filtration. 

 

 

I did notice on another vacuum blog a thread entitled:  

Allergy Season-Dyson gets put up-Rainbow gets used

http://www.vacuumland.org/TD/THREADS/MODERN/8615.htm?13

Apparently there are at least some Dyson users (more generally bagless vacuum users), who have problems with emptying a bagless vacuum during allergy seasons.

At last! It all boils down to testing by organisations and not true findings by the owners of vacuums such as Dyson.

Silly me, here was me thinking I had found a forum by vacuum cleaner owners who could relay their own experiences instead of relying on what larger companies find.

Hi SEVERUS:

I don't know about the BAF but I find a rating saying "allergy and asthma friendly" slightly disconcerting.  I enjoyed the vacuumland posts/readings.  Always impressed when current users and buyers draw/compare on experiences with vacuums from by-gone eras.  I listen to them because we have a common reference as a perspective.  Plus a few UK buyers and users in there who I suspect are more honest brokers than a few dyson banner wavers here.

Carmine D.

vacmanuk wrote:

Certainly both individuals and organizations can provide useful information.   Hopefully we're capable of weighing each one appropriately in making a final decision.   Judging by your comments, am I to assume that you don't place much trust in the results of Which? and the British Allergy Foundation?

In all honesty, it's not always easy to know who to trust for information.   If you placed one cup of dirt in both a Dyson (or any bagless dirt canister) and a cup of identical waste in the bag of a bagged vacuum, turned on each vacuum for 1 minute to rearrange the dirt, and then asked consumers to tell you which picked up more dirt, I suspect that 90% would say that the bagless did - just due to how the dirt is presented.   

Everyone's home is diffierent.  The stuff I vacuum up here in New York, by way of lifestyle and nature of place, may not at all be the stuff someone else has to go after in a surban home in Airizona.  I'm pretty sure it can be taken as a given that a large part of what we get during cleaning is human and animal detrius but the type of stuff we track in like sand or powdery dirt can be purely particular to place.  As well what happens when the baby gets hold of the talcum powder?  What does it mean if get the vacuum out only every couple of weeks as opposed to every other day?  I don't think that testing, no matter how comprehensive, can always suit everybody's individual situation.

There are other challenges as well.  During my time at the last place I managed an office, I definitely recall that either the newly installed low pile carpet or the padding that came with it bore some unknown sort of white powdery dust that did not seem to go away even after months of regular and frequent vacuuming.  This dust was always visible on vacuum brushrolls and other ares in the dirt path.  And because it was powdery in type, it always challenged the filtration and performance capability of both the very good bagged and bagless machines I used because powder can quickly choke up the action of either. 

I never did get rid of it and figured the only way to do that was to have a professional service in to thoroughly clean the rug.  I had a good argument in that who knew how much of that strange stuff we were breathing in but my employer would have never gone for paying for cleaning it because the rug was a brand new installation.

The worth of some tests and their results, sames as beauty, rests in the eye of the beholder.  Tell folks that a vacuum releases zero microns of what it takes in and you may leave them behind scratching their heads.  (Ask the next person you pass on the street, "How big is a micron?")  Show them that a machine can lift several bowling $#%* and they start salivating as they go for their wallets.

Venson

Lucky1 wrote:

Did I miss the Answering Response anywhere? I'll try again... I'm really asking....Is Dyson a Sealed System? A simple Yes or No is fine.

Severus wrote:
No I'm not a fan of British Allergy Foundation because many years ago I wrote to them on numerous occassions asking them how they could endorse Dyson vacuums based on the fact that once they get emptied dust flies out. Their reply was that the companies like Dyson pay the BAF for their name. It's a simple as that. I'm dubious when it comes to companies like BAF after replies like that!

vacmanuk wrote:

Sounds a lot like acquiring Good Housekeeping magazine's seal of approval here.  Don't know if the mag is still in existence but it appeared pretty free with its commendations.

Venson

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson:

Still in business and uses a GH guarantee to replace any products with its approval seal if customers have a problem and bring to GH's attention.  Not sure the time period.  1-2 years I think.  The guarantee is explained in each monthly edition. 

Carmine D.

vacmanuk wrote:

The question/answer is can a entity which charges for its seal, assuming it still does and you are correct, still provide a valuable service to consumers.  They have to survive to stay in business.  Charging is a way.  Is it for the approval?  Is it for the testing to deem worthy?  Both?   Probably the latter.  If the product meets minimal standards it's deemed worthy.  If it is so bad, I suspect rather than diminish the value of the seal, especially for other paying product brands who will pull their membership, the entity would refund the money and say sorry.

Carmine D.

vacmanuk wrote:

excellent point.......it all goes in the bag where it belongs ..keeping filters clean ....to filter.  if its the hospital standard...then its  great for in home use.

Good quality bags and filters makes for an unbeatable clean....cant get any better than that.

turtle

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine

Id like to see some long term tests....say a couple of years [2 and 5] down the road. Give the vac to a fam. of 4....in your avg home, [with annual service/maint ] then do the

same rigorous testing that was done when it was new.....i would think this would answer alot of questions/solve problems on overall

performance and build quality...how sealed is the hepa system now...or the vacuum itself....i without a doubt believe a bagged vacuum will outperform/ filter and 

 prove itself to be more durable than any bagless [of equal value] across the board...... several years down the road in uncontrolled real life  enviorments...those that

have proven themselves would recieve ...say the'  ULTRA platinum seal of appvl from  the CRI-BAF-CR-ect.

turtle

retardturtle1 wrote:
What is included in the annual service and what does it cost?

HARDSELL wrote:

Repair/replace whats  broke/broken...new belts, bag ,filters, clean out roller bearings ..check out  motor, take body apart and wash inside and out

...polish up the outside. keep it looking and running as good as the day you bought from us.....3yrs top to bottom coverage 5 yrs motor....min.

 on any and all vacs bought from us......if you buy elswhere and bring to us its 29.99  for our outstanding full service perfomed by yours truely.

anything worth keeping is worth the maint......no matter what you have or who made it.

turtle

retardturtle1 wrote:

Hello turtle:

The closest thing that comes to your recommendation is the CR reliability data for vacuums.  It comes with alot of caveats in the interpretations of results.  The American Society for Testing and Materials [ASTM] was used for a long time in the vacuum industry as the standard for testing vacuum product performance especially with suction and pick up.  Ultimately, it comes down to vacuum customers and vacuum stores.  Word of mouth among the front line vacuum businesses and their clientele which spreads throughout the industry and markets. 

Carmine D.

retardturtle1 wrote:

Pretty much strait forward and to the point, The cleaner that does the best job of keeping dirty air and debris out oif the fans,bearings,etc. will last the longest.

A clean running electric motor is a happy electric motor. So are we in agreement that a bagged, filtered , is the best for vacuum motor applications?

Fan first machines clean very well but require more maintainence, by pass top load uprights are the way to go.And even a true 2 motor upright is a dirt eating machine that will last for an average of 20 years in household aplications.

Any body remember the E-LUX D2...........

mole

mole wrote:
The thing is though, is a clean fan system better than dirty fan though? Ive seen good vacuums last for years in both camps and both are relatively great at pick up.

vacmanuk wrote:

Both systems are bagged/filter...and outer bag as filter......id say the fan first would be the best at deep cleaning. but the clean air would  filter better...

quieter (some) ....and dont have to worry about  fan breaking...washing the outter bag. ..but a sanitaire comm is a true cleaning beast...i had a 684 and gifted to my sis in law.

either of the above are still better than bagless......just my point of view/pref.

turtle

retardturtle1 wrote:

Just to play devil's advocate, since our little devil dustmite hasn't responded, doesn't the Dyson have a nice premotor filter to keep the motor clean?   It seems like the talk of leakage has been with the seals going into the dirt canister, but not so much dirt into the motor.  I certainly don't work on Dysons or any other vacuum, so I can't say whether the motors stay clean. 

Severus wrote:

Hi Severus

On my dc7 i noticed a very faint dusting just aft my pre mtr filter aft a weeks worth of use.....and a faint amount after the post hepa

 on its lower spine...but not every week , just from time to time....pre filter was spotless......so im only guessing a seal leak/leaks at the

filters...but never any problems with upper seals. Id say they do filter very well...as they should due to its thickness (pre mtr).

Better filter media (cut to fit ?) thinner that filters just as well yet not as restrictive would improve suction/perf is a test i wished i had done on it .

I think it would be worth a try....just to see... they also have charcoal filter inserts for the dysons post/pre mtr....a worthy investment.

turtle

Severus wrote:

Hi Severus:

For the most part, save some examples provided here and elsewhere, the post multi-cyclones filtering is decent on dysons.  At issue, at least for me, from my personal and professional perpsectives is the dyson cyclones' filtration.  Root 3 is the most dyson advanced cyclonic system.  Fine dust and dirt lodges/accumulates in the cyclone separators over time and with use.  This is the quintessential operational/performance advantages of good bagged vacuums over bagless, even the Root 3 dysons.  if I am correct, most industry professionals and vacuum makers will tell you this too.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi carmine

Not worked on any dyson above the dc14.....but noticed this build-up also....some more than others...some none at all.

Would have figured dyson would have dealt with this issue by now....or is this no longer a problem.....does the pre filter seem a little too

thick to you....why foam? do you just not like the filters (pre and post) themselves......

turtle