Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Hello Venson,

It appears the Wall Street Journal shares your interest in quiet performing vacuums.  Under the title:  Shopping Around: Quiet Vacuum Cleaners, Sara Scahaefer Munoz went on a quest to test several vacuums for quiet operations.

"Vacuum makers are touting a new generation of machines that pack plenty of power-without making lots of noise.  We tested four models and found they are indeed quieter than the traditional models, but we wouldn't advise running them during a baby's nap."

"Responding to concerns over indoor air quality, manufacturers in recent years have added high-efficiency particulate air, or HEPA, filters to capture things like dust mites and pet dander. Hoping to boost consumer interest, manufacturers insulated the motors to reduce noise.  We checked whether we could comfortably talk on the phone while using them.  Here's what we found."

"Electrolux Oxygen 3 Ultra with Quiet Clean.  Retail price is $499.  Made by Electrolux Home care Products.  

Comments: Canister vacuums are typically quieter but this one is especially so.  It's compact, and the manufacturer says its HEPA filter captures dust mites and pet dander.  When we made a phone call with it running, the person on the other end siad she could barely hear it."

"Miele Callisto.  Retail price is $799.  Made by Miele Inc. 

Comments:This sleek canister vacuum also has a soft hum and would be possible to use while on the phone.  Easy to maneuver; has a HEPA filter."

"Healthy Home Vacuum.  Retail price is $269.  Made by Bissell Homecare Inc. 

Comments: This upright is louder than canister vacuums, but isn't as shrill as other uprights.  Talking on the phone while using it wold be tough, but it's fairly easy on the ears.  Along with the HEPA filter, it has height adjustments and a pet hair attachment."

"Oreck XL 21 Titanium Upright with IntellaShield Technology.  Retail price is $749.  Made by Oreck Corp. 

Comments:  Also louder than the canister vacuums we tested, but quieter than older uprights.  At 9 pounds, it weighs less than most uprights and has a HEPA filter. "

Source:  WSJ, January 24, 2008. Personal Journal. Section D.  Home & Family.  Page D3.

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine,

Thank you much!  You're right on the money.  I had the Oxygen 7020A and loved everything about it except the dinky dust bag and the teeny wheels at the front of the low profile -- not the standard -- electric nozzle that popped off with just a nudge.  It is a very well built vacuum otherwise.

And as for Miele -- but of course.  Miele is pricey and has to my knowledge only rated "good" regarding carpet cleaning scores but never fails to give buyers the feeling their money has been well spent.  Still i'll have to pass on one as this year I am saving up my lunch money for a Miele dishwasher.  I'll spare you the story BUT the Bosch is going out the front door.

By the way, do you remember those old Filter Queen magazine ads depicting Mom in the nursery cleaning while the baby slept.  Are they still that quiet?

Venson

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson:

Yes, along with the Lewyt canisters in the 50's which claimed excellent usage for hospitals due to a quiet and clean operation. 

Interesting that the vacuum manufacturers are finally paying attention to noise.  I say so facetiously because the vacuums of the 50's were very quiet in comparison.  Especially the canns and tanks.  GE swivel, Eureka, Hoover Constellation, Lux 30, 60, and on and on.  So vacuum makers are reverting to the way things use to be before vacuums took off on a surge in suction and noise.  Nice to see more emphasis too on quieter operation.

I noted that of the 4 WSJ models tested only the Bissell is bagless and full size.  Some would say oversized.  Kudos to Bissell [and/or its source maker] for keeping the noise level down on even its big bagless upright.

BTW, I hear Miele washers are primo but pricey.

Carmine D.

Hi,the newer machines Bosch,miele,most of the german stuff,the other electrolux[A.B.],the majestic by health -mor,run at very low decibals.68 and under.If one was to take one of these machines apart,you would notice,internal hepa type cooling filters and foam padding around the motors,all the above machines except the filter queen,use the same motors,hence the same suction,toatl out at 100,to 105 total,and around 70'' static,which is really not that much,but thats beside the point.One of quietest machine on the planet was the electrolux G model,the white one for hospital use,anyone remember those?.1965............

Venson i do remember the Filter queen brochures,with the pictures of the housewife,cleaning while the baby was asleep.This was for the machine with the 2speed motor,the tan model [model31].

B.T.W.if your really going for quiet go central,with the lindhaus made stealth powerhead.

I will discuss this more down the road.

The problem with the real quiet portables is that they run so hot they blow up all the printed ciruit boards,these board dont like high temps.........

MOLE

Hi guys,
Having grown up in the sixties and seventies, I hear what you're saying about the older vacs being nice and quiet.  My Electrolux model 89 is a perfect example of that.  Mole, I agree with you on the German machines being one of the quietest out there, not to mention Linhaus and Riccar (their canisters, not too sure about the uprights though).

 Venson,  in your other post regarding the steam vac and the noise levels,  when you asked about the levels, the response you received, "just like the others", I am so sick and tired of receiving stupid responses like this from these companies.  Either provide us with the decibal level, or simply state "we don't know"!  When these companies become ignorant, I put it right back to them.  I went and bought a decibal meter at Radio Shack. (about $60 US)  If the sales individual is being a jerk, I just excuse myself and tell them that I'm going to get my noise meter, come back and test the unit out.  Trust me, it can shut a salesperson up very quickly!!

Mole, I believe you've hit the nail on the head in regards to shortened life of a quiet sound insulated vac.  About 12 years ago we were looking for a vac in my fathers shop.  We were looking at the Zep brand, which was made by Michaels??, as was/is the dustbane one as well.  The Zep dealer informed me that they were experiencing a shortened life span as a result of all the foam padding around the motor, preventing the heat from dissipating.  We ended up buying the Taski Bora 12 which was more powerful anyway. 

In regards to noise levels, we  should not just use the decibal rating only.    Yes, it is a good guide to go by,  but, you can have to different machines, both producing the same decibal rating, but the hum/whine of one maybe more irritating to my ear than yours. 

Vernon

mole wrote:

Hello Mole:

Yes, with the extra long white saran hose!

Carmine D.

I definitely agree on Miele, those are some of the quietest machines I've ever heard.  I wish they still made the extra-large models today, that's what has prevented me from buying one.  What I'd do for a brand-new White Pearl! 

Interesting that they mentioned the Bissell HealthyHome.  I didn't think it was that quiet; not the loudest cleaner by any means, but not whisper-quiet either.  I'd say it's about average like the majority of uprights out there.  One upright that I thought was quiet as well was the Dyson DC15, which to me would make sense considering the motor is enclosed in the ball.  Slight motor noise but all you really hear is the whoosh of air when the brushroll motor is off.  I'd say it's quieter than the HealthyHome.  Even though it has its shortcomings as we all know, excessive noise isn't one of them.

Motorhead wrote:

I disagree with your observation.  I recall a similar argument made by a vacuum expert and dyson admirer about the ball on a now defunct vacuum Forum BEFORE the evolution of the dyson ball technolgy.  I disagreed with him too.

The DC15 motor MAY sound quieter to you.  I'm not sure IT IS quieter.  Why?  Firstly, the ball enclosure magnifies motor noise.  How?  Study the physics of sound waves.  No doubt the reason, in part, jaydee scaled down the motor size and ball enclosure in recent applications.

Secondly, the DC15 brush roll operation is very noisey.  Especially compared to most US upright brush rolls on the market today.  It has a distinctive "shrilly" noise [and I suffer from hearing loss in both ears].  It's quite possible the "shrill" has more to do with the high mounted and side angle suction dirt path/portal.  With this configuration the DC15 vacuum creates a "sucking" sound that permeates throughout the entire brush roll head.  The DC15 exposed rubber hose dirt path can't muffle this sound.  The constant vacuum movements and vibrations of the brush roll nozzle accentuate the "shrilly" noise.  So it may not neccessarily be the operation of the brush roll itself.  In any event, noise is noise regardless of the cause and source.  Another reason, in part, jaydee scrubbed the DC15 suction path configuration with the exposed hose dirt path on later ball applications.

The DC15 ball is not jaydee's finest hour in vacuum inventions, I'll grant you that fact.  Including noise levels.

Carmine D.

Motorhead wrote:

Hi M.H. in regards to the full size mieles,there are more than likely a lot of them still around in some dealers back room or left over on the floor models.

I agree with you that when miele stopped producing these machines,THEY LOST THEIR IDENITY, all the euro machines are all little clones of each other.

MOLE

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine.

These machines are considered the holy grail of vacuums,I know of no collectors that want to give this particular machine up.

Of course everything has it's price.How much did that hoover 150 sell for on E-BAY?.

MOLE

I convinced my folks to get a DC15 when it came out three years ago. It's provided good service during that time - particularly with handling dog hair.

But I'll agree that there are number of areas for improvement. The 'the ball' mounting does dampen the motor noise to a certain degree, but the wine of the brushbar makes this irrelevant for the most part. If you pick the cleaning head off the carpet, it makes very little noise, but as soon as it's back in contact the gears make an awful din.

Weight - I don't find it that heavy, although it's far from being light. I can imagine that other people might though.

The twisting motion - It takes a little getting used to, but I never found it a problem and easier that the standard backwards and forwards motion. Interestingly, in the last year, I've been involved in developing a new product (non-vacuum) that helps reduce joint pain in everyday tasks. One challenge I've had is understanding the advantage it offers, since I'm not in the target market. The same is true with a vacuum cleaners motion.

Colour scheme - The white and orange accents of the DC15 'Allergy' model was lovely, but the standard yellow and especially Animal purple schemes was far from great. No doubt due to price segmentation from Dyson - convincing people with more cash to go for the top of range model.

Price - This DC15 has a good construction quality and has proved to be reliable in use. But it also has many components to deliver the concept. This includes a PCB stashed away inside the airflow tube, used to supply power to the brushbar. Naturally, all these details reflect on how far Dyson can influence the retail price. On initial glance, it looks like the new 'ball' cleaners are half as complex and hopefully keen pricing will lead to higher sales.

It's good to see the continual working on refining 'the ball' concept and integrating the other inventions along the way.

Although Dyson still lead the field with their original dual cyclone feature (in part due to knee-jerk attempts from other others using filters) they need to keep supplying a USP if they're to continue to hold their established market share. With innovations like telescope wrap, the ball, Airblade, core separation and the Dyson digital motor they're certainly proving that they can walk the walk.

To all you pros, past and present, when you've attended trade shows, has Ametek/Lamb and Domel ever discussed with you what they had on the R & D table in regards to making a quieter motor???  Was Lamb experimenting with a brushless motor at one time??  What about actual design of the fan unit itself??  We have two upright tower fans, one is noisey, the other (Lasko) you can have on high speed and it's a nice breeze blowing.  (We did pay much more for the Lasko I might add)  I don't have an engineering background, but it's rather puzzling that we could put man on the moon nearly 40 years ago, but can't build a quiet vacuum motor, having to resort to sound absorbing/damping material instead. 

Vernon

M00seUK wrote:

Hello M00seUK:

The DC15 is the worse rated of all the dysons with respect to pet hair pick up ON CARPETS.  At least based on the latest Consumer Reports ratings in October 2007.  Updated ratings are due out soon in the USA by CR.

The top rated dyson at number 11 for pet hair removal is the DC17 Absolute Animal which dyson intro'ed in September 2006 in the USA for $550.  A consumer can buy this one and/or the updated 2008 model for $440 [Asthma and Allergy friendly].  It gets a "very good"  for pet hair removal.

The next best dyson rating is the DC15 Ball for $500 ranked 20 by CR with the lowest CR pet hair pick up rating of "poor."  I've seen these models for much lower prices.  Dyson introed the DC15 in the USA in April 2005 originally for $600.

The next best dyson is the DC14 Complete for $470 ranked 21 with a rating of "good" for pet hair removal.  Like the above, these too are cheaper.  Dyson introed the DC14 in the USA in April 2004 along with the DC11 cann which went by the wayside after 6 months in the US.

Next, the DC07 All Floors for $400 ranked 22 whichs gets a "fair" for pet hair removal on carpets.  These are cheaper too.  And of course it is the first dyson upright that came to the USA in April 2002

Last in the rankings is the DC18 Slim for $470 rated 24 which gets a "good."  Intro'ed in the USA in April 2007.  But, it is the lowest ranked of all the dysons in the CR ratings. 

It would appear at least from the CR ratings that dyson's performance for pet hair removal got better with each successive US upright model although dyson gets mixed overall rankings particularly with the latest models.  Certainly nothing to brag over since it's latest and greatest uprights still, after 6 years, can't manage an "excellent" for pet hair removal on carpets and reach the top tier of the vacuum ranks.  Even though prices for dysons have gone up.  Important considerations for US vacuum buyers who have over 75 MILLION pets.

Why? For many reasons.  IMHO dyson has not "walked the walk" while talking the talk in the USA.  My sense from reading the Brits commentary and opinions on his products,  in the UK also.  Especially since his vacuum share of the market in the UK has gone down year after year since 2004.

You failed to mention the DC11, the DC16, the contra rotating washer and other products that have competed for time, money, and human resources with the dyson mainstay product: Upright vacuums.  Jaydee has scattered dyson's time and resources among a plethora of ill-fated, poor to non-selling products that have detracted from the dyson upright vacuums.  You can't do that year after year without having business consequences.  And having a perception and credibility problem.  Dyson is at a crucial point now in the USA.  Put up or shut up.  The bad timing is made worse by the underperforming global markets.  The worse dyson has ever experienced. 

BTW, here in the USA where the vacuum industry is probably more developed than the UK, several big box store brand vacuum makers, who copied the dyson bagless design and operation, have bested dyson in the CR ratings.  And they made it to the top 10 of the uprights over dyson.  One is the Healthy Home by BISSELL which sells for less than half of the cost of most dysons and is one of the protagonists in the thread.   What does this say about dyson?

Carmine D.

I too would be interested if any manufacturers have experimented or are experimenting with sound reduction technology for their motors.  That definitely seems like a difficult undertaking, but the winner would certainly reap the benefits.  I can't think of anyone who wouldn't want a quieter machine, myself included.  Added insulation is nice, but like someone mentioned, it raises the temperature of the motor compartment and may lead to overheating.

In regards to brushless/SR motors, from my experiences with a Rainbow E-series, they don't seem any quieter than the brushed type, at least as of now.  Aside from the different sound on startup, it had that constant drone of any other Rainbow when it was running.  Although it seemed to me in that situation, the fans were the main factor in the noise.

Vernon wrote:

Hello Vernon:

Interesting observation.  When President Kennedy made the space race with Russia the number one national priority, he encountered vehement arguments against it from Federal government officials including the head of NASA.  Why?  The cost was prohibitive.  Billions of dollars.  Money was not an issue with the President and his core group of inside advisors who forged ahead against the consensus of the bureaucracy.  And prevailed.

Money is a huge factor for mass market users and buyers in the USA.  Who are spoiled now and expect better performance and the same and/or cheaper prices .  My sense is manufacturers are advancing vacuum technology with lesser noise producing products.  But through marginal changes on the fringes.  Innovative noise reduction is too cost prohibitive for buyers.  Eventually motor innovation may  prevail and truly quiet operating and performing vacuums will be intro'ed.  But price will keep these from being widespread unless and until the manufacturers reap the benefits of economies of scale [like through fan applications and other household appliance uses].

Why?  The glory days of vacuums in the USA probably started in the 50's.  At that time most vacuums, especially tanks and canisters, operated quieter than today's.  And vacuums have become noiser over the years as they became better.  It's taken over 50 years for vacuum makers to start thinking in terms of toning down the noise levels again.  Vacuum customers are getting more vocal about it too.  Until now, it just was not an important consideration.  Vacuum manufacturers didn't see the need and application as important among end users and buyers.  Ultimately this is what drives innovation to the market.  Customers want it and it has to be affordable.  The all important question for makers of consumer goods:  Who will buy it?

Carmine D.

I read an article several years ago, and I know it's bad form to quote an article without being able to site it; I am just unable. (I know it was in the late 80's early 90's)  In any case the jest of the article was that American's equate noise level with power.  Thus in this article which I believe the research was commissioned by a large American manufacturer, they determined that noise was a plus at that time to the vacuum business.