Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I've been coveting a Miele C3 Kona or Marin now for about a year. I discovered them through the Wirecutter reviews. I have a vacuum today that... gets the job done... but it's a budget upright. I would love to have a quality canister vac instead. My question revolves around the electrobrush models. My gut tells me that, if I am to invest in a Miele, I really ought to just get a powered hose model, and a SEB 228 or 236 at that. Otherwise, it would just be an uncomfortably expensive vacuum cleaner with none of the high-power performance. Is the electric beater bar really "make-or-break" in that way, as far as Mieles are concerned? The jump to even the cheapest model to include the 228 is a good couple hundred dollars. And my beloved C3 Marin is over $1,000... I received a $500 Amazon gift card, and am considering putting it all towards this. I would love to be OK with an entry-level C1 model with a non-electric brush, but something is telling me that's a bad idea. Can anyone who has experience with both comment on how vital it is? Thanks!

I've been wondering the same thing... and have been trying to watch web videos that demonstrate the difference. I recently got a C3 Alize and ordered a Turbo brush along with it. My turbo brush has not yet arrived but the Alize' AirTeQ suction tool does excellent with hard floors and seems to do a very good job with my short pile carpets & area rugs, if one learns the technique and accepts a suction nozzle pushed on carpet will not be as pleasing an experience as a turbo/electric brush tool with wheels that will roll more smoothly on carpet. Miele is very clear a turbo brush is only for short to medium pile carpet. Aligning on "short pile" definition may be an issue. My thickest rug is a persian carpet, to put in perspective - I would consider that medium pile. I feel the AirTeQ tool does an adequate to good job with it and I'm hopeful the turbo brush does an even better job... but I probably would not want a powered brush beating on the wool and silk fabric. I think if one would have a carpet thicker than a quality persian rug one should consider a powered beater brush tool, based on my experience. My main desire in the turbo brush is more related to a smoother back and forth action, with less effort, rather than the belief I will make my carpets clearly cleaner than what the AirTeQ suction tool can deliver. It is human nature to want that last inch of "better" if it is available. Miele offers a range of models with powered heads in the US. Interestingly, they don't in the UK... suction and turbo heads seem to be the extent. There are a plethora of turbo head reviews in both the US and in the UK. In the US the ratings are very good, but not spectacular. Those that rate it lowly claim it does not work effectively on high pile carpets (no kidding) and long pet/human hair need cleaned off the roller with some frequency (no kidding). There are hundreds of UK reviews of this same turbo brush and nearly all give it a top rating (5 stars), with few 4 and 3 star reviews and no ratings at all below 3 starts. Either the UK have much more accepting people, no carpets and short hair, or not having to consider a powered brush allows them to make a more fair and honest assessment of the actual result. I'm thinking the latter. The one observation from the UK reviews is that many people are buying a replacement because this turbo tool seems to have a proven life expectancy of 7-10 years (which means the Miele cannister is functioning just fine beyond 7-10 years). With all the above said, based on my homework there are downsides to a powered brush. The first frequent claim is the weight of the electro hose/nozzle/head combo is very significant. I can tell you the weight of the non-electro counterpart is quite light, which is great both during actual use and during transport up and down stairs. Overall, vs. other brands, Miele ranks among the top in durability, but it seems there are a relatively significant amount of reviews of the electrical connection breaking in either the hose, wand or powered head within the first 3 years... a complete non-issue for a non-powered head. My conclusions: If one truly has a lot of hard floors and (exclusively) low pile carpeting (luckily I have, ex. the persian rug), it is a better bet sticking with a vacuum with a non-powered head. The AirTeQ suction only tool is quite quirky but works great at cleaning, and the 'Auto' suction feature on the Alize is a great compliment, else frequent adjustments to suction power may be required... I suspect the need to make frequent power changes with the turbo head would likely be less. If one's home is primarily wall-to-wall carpet with anything beyond berber/closed loop short pile rugs one may feel better about making the decision in buying a powered head, but that is not to say the turbo head would not do a very good to excellent job on all but thick lush carpeting. My 2 cents. BTW, I used a bagless Dyson for the past 7 years... going back to a bagged vacuum (with HEPA filter) has been great. I likely will spend $20 a year or less on bags (quarterly change) but the unit stays soooo clean. At least once every time I vacuumed with a Dyson I would have to do the dust-dump into the trashcan with its resulting mushroom cloud... and periodically had to do a deep clean, dismantling completely, and that was absolutely nasty work. One last tidbit you may want to follow-up on is I believe the C1 has the loud motor and is assembled in China. I think it is the C2 and C3 that have the super-quiet motor, which truly is outstanding.

I measured some vacuums with a suction guage and airflow meter. The suction guage measures inches of water lift, the standard way vacuum suction is measured. The airflow meter is something called a BAIRD meter, used by Kirby sales people to demonstrate the high airflow of a Kirby vacuum. All of my measurements were taken at the end of the hose. Long story short, you are not getting more suction and airflow or necessarily better filtration buying a Miele. I measured a new on the showroom Miele C-3. It pulls 82 inches of water lift and on my BAIRD meter pulled 6 out of 10 (10 is the airflow a Kirby will generate, but 0 is not zero airflow, it is about 40 cubic feet per minute). Then I went over to Sears. A budget Orange canister on clearance pulled 82 inches of water lift but pulled 6.5 on the BAIRD meter. A $149 on clearance Kenny beat the $700 Miele. Replace the paper bag in the Kenny with their premium cloth HEPA Q bag, replace the foam pre-motor filter with their good CF-1 HEPA pre motor filter and you have the same filtration as the Miele. Next I tested a new 600 Series Kenmore canister. It pulled 77 inches of suction and 7.5 on the BAIRD meter. Airflow is what moves the dirt and the 600 has good airflow. As with the Orange canister, use a Q bag and CF-1 filter instead of the cheaper items they come with. After that I tested a Kenmore Progressive on clearance (the new 600 Series replaces the Progressive). It pulled 66 inches and 6.5 on the BAIRD. The new 600 Series is superior to it but so is the old budget Orange canister. Surprise ! Last I tested the big 800 Series Elite canister. It pulled 95 inches of suction, no that is not a typo, and it slammed the BAIRD meter to the peg, past 10. I have never tested a vacuum with that much power, well beyond what even a Kirby has. 10 on a BAIRD meter is about 110 cubic feet per minute airflow and this vacuum has even more. These come with the good cloth HEPA Q bag (indeed these will burst a paper bag so don't cheap out and use paper bags) and the CF-1 pre-motor filter. All of the Kenmores came with a pleated HEPA exhaust filter. The Elite also has an eight foot long hose. The others get six footers. The extra two feet of hose makes a big difference in ease of use at home allowing you to leave the machine on the floor when you vacuum ceiling fans or high shelves. Forget the expensive Germans. They don't have any more cleaning power than a cheap bagged Kenmore. With careful shopping you can find floor demo or remanufactured Elites for $200 or less. Use the money you saved off the price of an overpriced Miele to take you wife somewhere nice for the weekend. Mahalo.

Btw, I have dogs, two adorable and friendly huskies that test a vacuum cleaner hard. Without an electric powered floor brush you can't really clean carpet. Turbo brushes rely on the vacuums airflow to power the brush, but you need that airflow to pull dirt up and out of the carpet. With an electric powered floor brush you are not wasting airflow powering the brush, all of it can be used to move the dirt out of the carpet. On soft materials a turbo brush will seal too much and simply stop for lack of airflow. Aside from an electric powered floor brush many Kenmore canister vacuums come with an electric powered "Pet Powermate" hand held brush. These do an outstanding job of cleaning sofas, chairs, beds and stairs, far better than any hand held turbo brush can do.

You want a power nozzle to clean carpet. Suction only is a waste of time on carpet. Don't waste your hard earned on a Miele canister. Keep in mind that all appliances sold in the US can draw a maximum of 12 amps at the wall socket. This means that most canister vacuums have about the same cleaning power. I measure vacuums for suction using a guage marked in inches of water lift. This is the standard measure of vacuum suction. To measure airflow I use a BAIRD meter, the little thing the Kirby sales person uses to compare the airflow of your vacuum with that of a Kirby. It measures from zero to ten. Zero on a BAIRD meter is about 40 cubic feet per minute or "cfm". Ten is about 110 cfm. A Miele C-3 pulls 82 inches of sealed suction before a suction release on the lid opens (to save the motor from overheating due to a lack of airflow). It pulls 6 on my BAIRD meter, both measured at the end of the hose. For comparison sake, a now out of date but still available on clearance Kenmore Orange canister, list price $209,95 but on sale for $149.95 pulls the same 82 inches of suction and 6 1/2 on my BAIRD meter. A new Kenmore 600 series canister pulls 77 inches of suction but airflow is 7 1/2 on my BAIRD meter. Airflow is what moves dirt and the new Kenny has more than a Miele. It also has a very good power nozzle who's design flows from the old Whirlpool designed geared belt Powermate of 1980, slowly updated over the years to what it is today. The top of the line Kenmore Elite pulls 92 inches of suction and pegged my BAIRD meter past 10, more than 110 cfm. Both numbers are higher than a new Kirby can manage. There are two versions of the Elite, differing in color and the type of power nozzle. My recommendation is the 700 series because the Super Plush nozzle is quiet and effortless to push on the new deep pile carpets. It is much better than a Miele power nozzle. I own an 800 Series Elite with its oddball CrossOver Brush and like it a lot, but many don't like the detachable hard floor brush and the power nozzle is harder to push on deep pile carpet than the new Super Plush Nozzle with its air bypass feature.

Time has passed with my Miele C3 Alize. I've continued to research vacuums and the technology behind them. Both airflow and suction are important... airflow more important for vacuuming carpets and suction more important if using 'above ground' tools or vacuuming a lot of hard floors. Over the last 7 months I've been using my Airteq suction head and air powered Turbo brush. While I think my house has been kept clean I was just itching out of curiosity more than anything else to upgrade my until to a powered head... so sprung for the powered hose/wand and SEB 236 head with LED lights. So now I have A LOT invested in my cleaning system, but it is pretty darn complete for most any situation in my house. I use the non-powered components for my hard floors and also have the larger adjustable dusting brush that can connect directly to the hose. Dusting with that brush is awesome... all dust is collected vs. stirred up and I swear when dusted with the vacuum items stay dust-free longer. Because it is being used with the non-powered hose without the wand it is also very light and manageable... but put on the wand, adjust the brush and I can vacuum the tops of my ceiling fans. I recently had a situation where I sawed my very old beat up very large sofa in the basement in half to get it out. After sweeping by hand the larger wood chunks and insulation off the carpet I took the powerhead to the carpet. It absolutely made quick work of what looked like a cleaning disaster. In summary, I think the Marin with SEB 236 would be awesome, but the Alize combined with powered hose/wand and floor head as well as all the light non-powered pieces truly is the ultimate combo. There is a lot more to vacuum than the physical removal of debris... need to factor in functionality, sound, weight, durability, warranty, etc... for more complete usability and all those things have potential value. The best upright that can't clean under a bed, or clean the stairs easily or can't get gobs of dust off a ceiling fan is, to me, not quite as valuable as a unit that can. Kirby's are fantastic if you live in a ranch house with wall to wall carpet, for sure. Each home is different, with different needs for different vacuums.

I recently had an opportunity to pick up a very lightly used Miele Compact C2 that came with the SEB228 power nozzle. Only $20 at a thrift store, who could resist? It cleaned up to as-new condition. I measured both suction and airflow at the hose end. Airflow was very high, registering a tiny smidge below the 9 line on my BAIRD meter. That is about what a new Kirby would show if you made the sales person test it at the hose end instead right at the hole in the fan housing. Suction didn't get much past 64 inches of water lift and that seems to be due to a suction release built into the bag indicator. I have seen this with other new Mieles. Attachments are tiny, especially the cupcake sized dusting brush. They are almost useless and that dusting brush especially so. Perching them on the canister end of the hose often causes them to foul the hose and tip the whole vacuum over on it's side. The hose material is nicer than that on my older S558 Silver Moon but it's still a short six foot long hose compared to the eight footers a high end Kenmore has or the 12 footer you can buy for a Tristar. Sound level of the canister is low average but the SEB228 makes some unpleasant noises on dense carpets. The motor struggles to spin the brush on the back stroke on some dense carpets in my home. The height setting seems critical, too low and the overload protection engages. None of my Panasonic or Kenmore power nozzles, or old Hoover Quadraflex power nozzles have any problems with the same carpets. The Hoover and older Panasonic Jet Flo power nozzles don't have height adjustment and it doesn't seem to matter. So I remain unimpressed with Miele vacuums. My trusty old Panasonics and Kenmores with their longer cords and hoses and superior power nozzles are a lot less work to use. Oh yeah, the Miele dust bag is both too small and ridiculously over priced. Figure using a $5 bag every week, maybe more often. They are almost the poster child for why so many buyers choose a bagless machine.