Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
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Trebor
Joined: Jan 16, 2009
Points: 321
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #38 Apr 6, 2011 1:11 pm |
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Hi Karen: I was at Lowe's yesterday and it was on display and stocked on the shelf. However, true to form for Lowe's and stores like it when it comes to vacuums, it was missing the top of the dirt bin container [brand new], and when I plugged in there was no suction. After several minutes of running, examining, and testing, with 2 Lowe's persons in close sight and earshot, and not receiving any request for assistance, I politely placed the plug protector back on, wrapped up the cord, and stored back away on the display. Waiting a bit longer around the aisle and still no interest. So I went forth and bought what I needed and left. A lost $300 sale. BTW, I did check out the Kobalt canister for $100 in another aisle [and talked about here recently]. It was 10 foot up in the air on a shelve display tied down and unable to be used and perused by customers. Another lost sale. Carmine D. Carmine, This is everywhere in retail these days. People who are alert, intelligent, walk purposefully rather than shuffle their feet, and are not plugged into a cell phone, or don't have their thumbs flying over a keyboard are ignored because the average clerk is intimidated by them. The clerk receives no training because instead of an asset, he.she is viewed as an expense. As the number of retailers shrinks their size increases and their concern for the customer decreases day by day. I make an effort to see to it that management knows when an employee has done a good job in assisting me, even though it is their job far too many don't do it and receive no encouragement from management to excel. Trebor
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #39 Apr 6, 2011 4:05 pm |
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What is so difficult about using a dyson on carpeting and floors? Just tilt the handle to the left or right,while vacuuming, then the cleaning head turns. The vacuum cleaner does the same thing on floor as the carpeting. Actually, there would be less resistance on floors, when pushing/pulling, compared to vacuuming thick carpeting. The swivel/twist action is going to work on all surfaces. How is changing the design going to make the dyson swivel/twist much better?
First, the original DC15 ball was too big bulky and $#%*bersome. Two, the DC18 Slim was more manageable but still top heavy and prone to tip/fall over. Three, the current DC24/25 series have rib spines on the outside surface of the ball. These make the ball motion herky jerky over stiff surfaces like floors and tiles. AND.. maybe the reason in part that the motor harness wiring fails under warranty on the DC25 [which uses a larger ball wheel]. Finally, the big disappointment to me and perhaps others like Vacmanuk is that the profile of the dyson ball models are high and awkward and fail to get under most of today's furniture. Forcing conversion to tool use. More time and effort by users.
Having said all the above, if you like them, fine go for it. I don't like the ball wheels. Never have. I prefer the twist/swivel of the ORECK, MIELE and E-Lux Nimble. And after Vacmanuk posted and reminded me the SEBO Felix, which has been marketed for years now and one of my favorite vacuums to recommend to persons with smaller homes/cleaning areas as a possible choice for them in the $500 range. I suggest, since you ask, that dyson engineers redesign the current and past ball models/Slim into a revised ball version that combines the best features of both the DC18 and DC24/25 into one. Lower profile for use under furniture with a better wheel mechanism for navigating hard surface floors. Carmine D.
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #40 Apr 6, 2011 4:11 pm |
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Carmine,
This is everywhere in retail these days. People who are alert, intelligent, walk purposefully rather than shuffle their feet, and are not plugged into a cell phone, or don't have their thumbs flying over a keyboard are ignored because the average clerk is intimidated by them. The clerk receives no training because instead of an asset, he.she is viewed as an expense. As the number of retailers shrinks their size increases and their concern for the customer decreases day by day. I make an effort to see to it that management knows when an employee has done a good job in assisting me, even though it is their job far too many don't do it and receive no encouragement from management to excel.
Trebor
Hi Trebor:
Ironically, in the same visit, I met up with a Lowe's assistant who was wheel chair bound with mechanized propolsion. He spoke to me FIRST as we crossed paths and we struck up a conversation on general issue matters, nothing retail oriented. Tho I was in a hurry to get to my next destination, I paused and relaxed with him for a brief and enjoyble mutual conversation. The next time I frequent this Lowe's store location, I plan to look for him. Carmine D.
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vacmanuk
Location: Scotland UK
Joined: May 31, 2009
Points: 1162
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #41 Apr 6, 2011 10:10 pm |
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We are talking about the swiveling/twisting action that these brands are focusing on. The dyson has the greater swiveling action compared to other vacuum cleaners. Do the test yourself. Turn the dyson to the right, as far as it goes, then do the same w/the SEBO Felix. The dyson will have a wider degree turn than others.
For those who want a visual, check out the link of the Felix video #2 of the Felix in action.
http://www.sebo.us/video_download.aspx?vdtitle=felix_sales.flv&vname=FELIX_Product_Demonstration#
Pay attention at 1:08 and especially around 4:25. Watch how much she must swivel the handle in order to turn the cleaning head slightly. Also, if you watch her vacuum under the bar stools, she swivels the handle, but then she must turn the vacuums direction by pushing the handle like "non-swiveling" vacuum cleaners.
It is fine to say the vacuum cleaner swivels, but what is important is what are the results of the cleaning head, from that swiveling. It is easy to move the handle, watch the cleaning head move side to side and say "I am controlling the vacuum cleaner". What are the results from the swiveling/twisting? iMacdaddy and Carmine felt that Nimble was better at swiveling than the dyson. The dyson can turn at a wider degree.
As for SEBO getting under low furniture and dysons cannot, well, I have always believed that. We are not talking about that. We are talking swiveling/twisting features. Can you twist the Felix and put it under the low furniture? No you cannot. The Felix must lay flat, just like the SEBO uprights(Xseries).
The Felix has been awarded a best buy from WHICH UK for carpet performance - DC33 did not rate in that respect. Now you can take all you want from that - and there would be many variables taken into account - but the Felix also scored higher on hard floor performance too. Taken on board what you say in the video regarding the SEBO shown. However Mike, when she goes between the bar stools, you don't have to do what she does - infact I'd have just swivelled the Felix between the legs and turned left or right. What she does is straighten up before she turns. You don't have to do that with the Felix - and yes - you control the movement from the handle - the design of the Felix with its swivel built into the floor head and other tools mimic the use of cylinder vacuums, likewise the components can be used on all of their models. I've yet to go under low furniture with a cylinder vacuum's tube without going side ways or lowering it lower to the floor to get under low furniture. The exception to the rule is SEBO's deluxe 2 way suction floor head that has two large wheels at the back and no storage hook at the back - whereas Miele ones have the obligatory nib - and this is an optional floor head for the Felix. Only then can you go under low furniture in a straight line without having to go left or right in order for the floor head to make contact with the floor - but the plus is that you can go left or right with that type of floor head.
This message was modified Apr 6, 2011 by vacmanuk
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"There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner"
"Take care of your vacuum, then your vacuum will take care of you"
Joined: Dec 1, 2004
Points: 1683
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #43 Apr 7, 2011 2:09 pm |
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First, the original DC15 ball was too big bulky and $#%*bersome. Two, the DC18 Slim was more manageable but still top heavy and prone to tip/fall over. Three, the current DC24/25 series have rib spines on the outside surface of the ball. These make the ball motion herky jerky over stiff surfaces like floors and tiles. AND.. maybe the reason in part that the motor harness wiring fails under warranty on the DC25 [which uses a larger ball wheel]. Finally, the big disappointment to me and perhaps others like Vacmanuk is that the profile of the dyson ball models are high and awkward and fail to get under most of today's furniture. Forcing conversion to tool use. More time and effort by users. Having said all the above, if you like them, fine go for it. I don't like the ball wheels. Never have. I prefer the twist/swivel of the ORECK, MIELE and E-Lux Nimble. And after Vacmanuk posted and reminded me the SEBO Felix, which has been marketed for years now and one of my favorite vacuums to recommend to persons with smaller homes/cleaning areas as a possible choice for them in the $500 range. I suggest, since you ask, that dyson engineers redesign the current and past ball models/Slim into a revised ball version that combines the best features of both the DC18 and DC24/25 into one. Lower profile for use under furniture with a better wheel mechanism for navigating hard surface floors. Carmine D. You have failed to disprove me. Instead you mention other things about the dyson and its different models. You talk about how the dyson cannot get under furniture. All these things are not what I am talking about . When it comes to twist/swivel features of some vacuum cleaners, I have found dyson to be the best at this feature. This brand has a wider degree turn than others. You have not disproved it. You have not even tried the Nimble yet. You later say that you like the Nimble, because it does better on floors than carpeting. It is an upright! You have not tested the Nimble on carpeting, because Lowe's does not have test rugs for demos.
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"There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner"
"Take care of your vacuum, then your vacuum will take care of you"
Joined: Dec 1, 2004
Points: 1683
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #44 Apr 7, 2011 2:27 pm |
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The Felix has been awarded a best buy from WHICH UK for carpet performance - DC33 did not rate in that respect. Now you can take all you want from that - and there would be many variables taken into account - but the Felix also scored higher on hard floor performance too. Taken on board what you say in the video regarding the SEBO shown. However Mike, when she goes between the bar stools, you don't have to do what she does - infact I'd have just swivelled the Felix between the legs and turned left or right. What she does is straighten up before she turns. You don't have to do that with the Felix - and yes - you control the movement from the handle - the design of the Felix with its swivel built into the floor head and other tools mimic the use of cylinder vacuums, likewise the components can be used on all of their models.
I've yet to go under low furniture with a cylinder vacuum's tube without going side ways or lowering it lower to the floor to get under low furniture. The exception to the rule is SEBO's deluxe 2 way suction floor head that has two large wheels at the back and no storage hook at the back - whereas Miele ones have the obligatory nib - and this is an optional floor head for the Felix. Only then can you go under low furniture in a straight line without having to go left or right in order for the floor head to make contact with the floor - but the plus is that you can go left or right with that type of floor head. I am going to tell you the same thing I told Carmine. You have failed to disprove me. Instead you talk about an award for the Felix You even bring in how the DC33 did not even "rate in that respect". The DC33 does not even have a swivel/twisting feature. I could care less if the dyson goes under furniture or has a long hose, etc, because it has nothing to do w/what should be debated. All you are doing is defending one of your favorite brands What I have done is prove my point that dyson ball uprights' twisting/swiveling feature is better than others, especially the Electrolux Nimble. You brought up the SEBO and came to its defense. I again proved my point w/ SEBO's OWN VIDEO demo, PRODUCED BY SEBO. What I was able to do was take a brand, one that is not my FAVORITE, and admit it has A FEATURE that excels over others. I have in no way said dyson is the best vacuum cleaner. Also, I have in no way said the SEBO is a bad vacuum cleaner.
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #45 Apr 7, 2011 3:08 pm |
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You have failed to disprove me. Instead you mention other things about the dyson and its different models. You talk about how the dyson cannot get under furniture. All these things are not what I am talking about . When it comes to twist/swivel features of some vacuum cleaners, I have found dyson to be the best at this feature. This brand has a wider degree turn than others. You have not disproved it. You have not even tried the Nimble yet. You later say that you like the Nimble, because it does better on floors than carpeting. It is an upright! You have not tested the Nimble on carpeting, because Lowe's does not have test rugs for demos.
Let me take another tact. First, my intent is not to disprove you. Like and buy whatever you want. Second, I DON"T LIKE THE BALL WHEEL. Period, end of story. Never have and never will. I prefer the twist/swivel features of uprights, especially the ones I mentioned: ORECK, MIELE, NIMBLE and Felix. NOT BALL WHEELS. Finally, you're fixated on the ball under the vacuum and are forgetting everything else that uprights have to do beside manuever. Like perform. I'm judging the entire product with and around the ball not just the ball. If you want to be fixated on the ball and turning radius, fine go for it. But if the darn thing won't clean, then it don't mean a thing.
Carmine D. PS: if I recall correctly, YOU said you don't even have to turn the dyson ball on to see its maneuverabilty. Just use it w/o power on. So I don't get your point that the NIMBLE has to powered on to be able to prefer it to a dyson ball wheel. Not really. All I have to do is look at the huge ball wheel, laugh out loud, and say not in my lifetime will I buy and use it. All the rest is filler. When dyson luanched its DC15 ball in April 2005 to much fanfare, it had an MSRP of $599. I laughed and said no way. Even said it would come down in price after it didn't sell and predicted at least $50 less. Dyson dropped the MSRP by $100 by June 2005. And it still didn't sell well. The DC18 a modified ball model sold better at $469.
This message was modified Apr 7, 2011 by CarmineD
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vacmanuk
Location: Scotland UK
Joined: May 31, 2009
Points: 1162
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #46 Apr 7, 2011 6:25 pm |
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I am going to tell you the same thing I told Carmine. You have failed to disprove me. Instead you talk about an award for the Felix You even bring in how the DC33 did not even "rate in that respect". The DC33 does not even have a swivel/twisting feature. I could care less if the dyson goes under furniture or has a long hose, etc, because it has nothing to do w/what should be debated. All you are doing is defending one of your favorite brands
What I have done is prove my point that dyson ball uprights' twisting/swiveling feature is better than others, especially the Electrolux Nimble. You brought up the SEBO and came to its defense. I again proved my point w/ SEBO's OWN VIDEO demo, PRODUCED BY SEBO.
What I was able to do was take a brand, one that is not my FAVORITE, and admit it has A FEATURE that excels over others. I have in no way said dyson is the best vacuum cleaner. Also, I have in no way said the SEBO is a bad vacuum cleaner. I hazard a bet that there's no upright Dyson that can go under low furniture. Not much versatility for upright owners then.. As for the swivelling action you seem to think that because the Dyson has a wider track when swivelling, that is better than the Nimble. For a start we don't have the Nimble in the UK so I can't possibly comment. We do however have the Hoover Slalom which strangely the Nimble reminds me of in a big way. In both cases, a swivelling upright vacuum will work IF THE TOP HALF is light. If the top half like the Miele S7 is heavier than the floor head, no matter how much of an angle it swivels or twists, it must be a heck of a weight that the owner has to control. It was one of the less redeeming features I disliked about the Miele S7. Reiterates the old thought that uprights are heavier than cylinders in that respect - not exactly moving anything on. The trouble with Dyson's ball is that whilst it looks novel and whilst I'd agree that it feels easier to swivel to a wider angle, the ball gets in the way. Dyson needs to make the ball smaller and more agile regardless of whether the swivel/twist action is wider.
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"There is no BEST or PERFECT vacuum cleaner"
"Take care of your vacuum, then your vacuum will take care of you"
Joined: Dec 1, 2004
Points: 1683
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Re: The Dyson Ball finally has a competitor: New Electrolux Nimble
Reply #47 Apr 11, 2011 1:56 pm |
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I hazard a bet that there's no upright Dyson that can go under low furniture. Not much versatility for upright owners then..
As for the swivelling action you seem to think that because the Dyson has a wider track when swivelling, that is better than the Nimble. For a start we don't have the Nimble in the UK so I can't possibly comment. We do however have the Hoover Slalom which strangely the Nimble reminds me of in a big way. In both cases, a swivelling upright vacuum will work IF THE TOP HALF is light. If the top half like the Miele S7 is heavier than the floor head, no matter how much of an angle it swivels or twists, it must be a heck of a weight that the owner has to control. It was one of the less redeeming features I disliked about the Miele S7. Reiterates the old thought that uprights are heavier than cylinders in that respect - not exactly moving anything on. The trouble with Dyson's ball is that whilst it looks novel and whilst I'd agree that it feels easier to swivel to a wider angle, the ball gets in the way. Dyson needs to make the ball smaller and more agile regardless of whether the swivel/twist action is wider. I have made my point about twisting/swiveling uprights and do not need to continue. Now, about the Nimble. The Nimble is very hard to twist, because it is so heavy, plus the way it is designed. Twisting/swiveling uprights are not designed for persons with hand/wrist problems. I can speak from firsthand experience, because someone ran into my car; resulting in a wrist problem. Moving the Electrolux Nimble hurts my wrist. It requires alot of strength to twist the handle, which does not move the cleaning head that much. It is better to just move the handle side to side, to move the cleaning head. I have always recommended a loop-handled upright and one that does not require alot of hand gripping, when someone has wrist/hand problems.
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http://smallappliances.electroluxusa.com/ Highlights: - 14 foot cleaning reach - LED headlight - "Ball-like" swivel action - Metal Soleplate - 5 year warranty - $299
