Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Notice the absence of the Dutch Tech canisters? The presence of the Edge, which was supposed to have been an dealer exclusive? So much for integrity. Oreck dealers fared betetr when Dave was at the helm.

CarmineD wrote:
Hoover may have had a "gold standard of rug cleaning," but wasn't that down to the actual roller bar and metal bars to retain its "beats as it sweeps as it cleans," action? Almost all Hoover models these days Carmine, are made of cheap Chinese produced plastic and there are no metal bars to beat the carpet. At least Oreck have retained the wooden rollers with proper bristles/more brushy action.

vacmanuk wrote:

Hello vacmanuk:

Where the beater bar for HOOVER was its edge over all the other uprights for the greater part of the 20 th century, now and still its the HOOVER windtunnel technology that gives it the edge over all other uprights.  Still the gold standard in rug cleaning.  IMHO 

WRT ORECK, are there ORECK Home ealth Cleaning Centers in the UK and Europe?

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Well Carmine, the Windtunnel "feature" to the best of my knowledge has hee haw / i.e. nothing to do with the beater bar or roller brush (whatever one term you prefer). The Windtunnel feature simply points to a dual dust channel that fills up the bag quicker and is probably claimed by Hoover "to pick up more." I dont know if we have those kinds of centres in Europe - hate to say it Carmine - and you know how I feel about Oreck - but Europe and the U.K don't have much popularity with the Oreck models.

vacmanuk wrote:

Vacmanuk, HOOVER doesn't make the claim exclusively about the benefits of WT technology but others in the industry share the technology's claim as true and beneficial/advantageous for best all around rug cleaning.  Interestingly this site, unrelated to HOOVER, also makes mention of the famous HOOVER beater bars of yester year. 

http://www.vacuumwizard.com/hoover-windtunnel.html

I would also suggest that you note other vacuums' claims about maximizing rug cleaning throughout the brush nozzle cleaning swath.  Like the recently introed LG uprights Kompressor uprights.  They are copying the HOOVER WT technology.  LG actually uses the same or similar verbage as you with "dual force" moniker.  HOOVER WT tech actually claims th same cleaning power over the entire cleaning swath of the nozzle, not just in two places of the swath.  Unlike most uprights and P/N which have peaks and valleys in their cleaning swath depending on the dirt/vacuum path in relation to the brush roll/nozzle, WT tech gives the same over all.  IMHO gold standard for rug cleaning.  Eliminates the need for redundant/repetitive back and forth motions over the same rug areas for cleaning.

Carmine D.

WRT ORECK, I suspect the lesser popularity in UK and Europe are in part the reason for a lack of the ORECK Home Health Centers.  The USA market probably keeps ORECK as busy as it wants/needs to be for sales/service of ORECK vacuums and its floorcare products.  BTW, several appliance makers actually added new manufacturing jobs in the USA in 2010 for the first time since 1997.  An increase of new manufacturing jobs of 1.3 percent over last year [2009].  That percentage is expected to be even higher this year [2011] as USA factories are required to upgrade their operations and avoid the additional costs of overhead and labor by outsourcing to Mexico and China.  By recent count ORECK claims to have about 600 ORECK stores nationwide in the USA not counting vacuum store independents which sell and service ORECK's.   With ORECK's headquarters and plants in the USA, it minimizes transportation costs for getting its vacuums and floorcare products to market by saturating the US market and conscoiusly avoiding expansion to your side of the pond.  Transporation costs to get their products to market, next to the raw material costs of production, are the second largest cost to appliance makers worldwide.  Not to mention the exchange rate issues of doing business on your side of the pond.  With the euro concerns and countries in Europe falling like flies to bankruptcy, it will be hard if not impossible to see appliance makers expanding in the UK and Europe. Just the opposite.  Companies will likely leave.  One exception is Germany which is carrying the rest of Europe with the falling euro.

CarmineD wrote:
It is without doubt, that in my opinion, the U.S are swayed by the patriotic "made in America," appliances that swings the vote for purchases, and yet Carmine half of Eureka and most of Electrolux's products are produced in China. The U.K does not have many manufacturing bases left in any appliance foothold, with the only exception being Numatic Henry vacuums wholly made in England. Dyson, Hoover (Italy owned by Candy SPA), even Panasonic - they are all, if not wholly produced in China and has been the case for the last ten years. Hoover still produce the Purepower in the U.K but only by screwdriver assembly where the most of the vacuum is made in China before being sent to the U.K for minimal assembly. What you're saying isn't new that "with the euro concerns in Europe...companies will likely leave..." They already left - it's just that the U.S are slow to see where Chinese products are being made hidden by royalistic brands that U.S buyers in the past went for.

Secondly, when it comes to rug performance in the U.K it isn't as highly beneficial to buyers. Buyers couldnt care less if the beater bars are made out of wood, or if a standard test has given them greater status than another brand. Infact in the commercial field, many companies will go for the SEBO brand or another company that use the SEBO design because of the structure of the roller bar and the ease of removal, rather than how long the bristles are etc. Sanitaire/Electrolux did try and sell their metal upright here last year. It hasn't been a success - the model is too heavy by U.K tastes and the steel bar hasn't met universal approval because of the U.K & Europe's preferences to thinner floor coverings and vinyl/laminate.

vacmanuk wrote:

Hi,

That comes as no surprise to me.  Here we've always maintained a "more's better" outlook.  Circa 1950, only 10 percent of carpeting product on the American market was what we could have referred to as tufted and the remainder was woven.    Woven carpeting save for issues with lint and pet hair were easy enough to maintain.  The lack of challenge due to limited carpet types may well have been a reason why all those straight-suction Electrolux tank-type vacs were felt to be so wonderful and sold well.

However, with the development of man-made fibers, nylon's arrival in 1947 for one, the picture changed here.  Everyday, rank-and-file folks could begin to buy affordable but luxurious looking carpeting with heavier, deeper pile.  Hoover had beater bars long before that point in time but I feel the "beats as it sweeps as it cleans" sales pitch was more angled toward reminding the public that Grandma's day had passed.  You no longer had to take up your rug and put it on the washline in the backyard to whack it thoroughly clean by hand because Hoover had incorporated the idea in an easy to use machine.

Hoover and its beater bar still had an edge on the American market when it became obvious that the denser weave and depth of the carpeting styles we'd begun to take a shine to weren't necessarily a piece of cake to clean.  The Hoover company more than met the challenge.  What makes me curious is if it has been mainly economics or mentality that has made European and American tastes and needs different.

http://www.carpet-rug.org/about-cri/the-history-of-carpet.cfm

Venson

Venson wrote:
Up until 1987/88 Hoover continued to sell the "last of the classic lines," which meant Junior and Senior/Convertible/Powerplus uprights having the last of the metal beater bars. Hoover UK continued with the Junior before being replaced eventually by the Turbopower range which had a plastic roller and plastic tufts. Hoover weren't happy of course that their old Junior was missing out on sales and made a limited run of "last batch" models with a plastic roller similar to the style of the Turbopower. I know a few owners who have these models and say quite happily that the plastic rollers are better on pick up. However I much admired the old fashioned metal bars until it our Junior sliced up our vinyl floor! Hoover made a lot of campaign adverts in the UK (most of which you can find them on You Tube) but I have to say, that over the compeititors such as Electrolux and a few other brands, Hoover stood out as being better designed and having a much better pick up because of the beater bars - the Electrolux Z500 didn't have any beater bars until Electrolux changed the brush roll to adopt a single line of plastic to act as a beater bar - it however, wasn't as successful on pick up due to its straight design compared to Hoover's turbine effect of the beater bars.

The two quintessential and unique rug cleaning features of HOOVER vacuums are the beater bars [once metal] and windtunnel technology.  Both developed and marketed first in the USA by HOOVER engineers in North Canton, Ohio.  Now sadly gone.  These features are still very much a part of vacuum history for the past, present, and no doubt future.  My bases for declaring HOOVER the gold standard of rug cleaning.  Past, present and likely into the foreseeble future.

ORECK started and kept its product manufacturing, at least for its signature lightweight uprights, wholly in the USA for the last 50 years and still [roughly 1963].  Until this changes, ORECK is part of a handful of vacuum name brands that can still claim made in the USA.  We recently discussed RICCAR going the USA route, not just for its uprights as was always the case but now also for its line of canns.  Part of the first increase in new manufacturing jobs in 2010 since 1997.    

Carmine D.

A link to an article in the Las Vegas Sun Review Journal.  It uses the Wall Street Journal's article from this past Wednesday where I got the facts for my posts here.  It doesn't use patriotism for US companies locating in the USA/upgrading existing facilities in the USA.  Uses words like increase job growth, new manufacturing jobs in the US, utilizing Americans with skills, revive stagnant cities and so on.  

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/jan/21/made-america/

Venson wrote:

HOOVER's engineers designed and marketed the first 2 in 1 vacuum in the early 60's: The Dial with on board tools.  As Americans plushed up their carpets and rug piles, the HOOVER Dial, with its excess rug suction power and beater bars posed a problem for the ladies of the house to maneuver.  So it short order HOOVER desined and implemented the self-propel feature on the Power Dial.  Also a part of vacuum history past, present and future.  Others, like EUREKA and KIRBY, copied.  Gold standard of rug cleaning:  HOOVER.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Hi Carmine,

I'd thought that ease of movement was the purpose of dial since for whatever Hoover didn't bother to work in a rug height adjustment for the first Dial-A-Matic.. 

The dial was actually a suction diverter.  Turn it one way and you could adjust the cleaner's level of suction delivery for attachments. Turn it the the other and suction for the cleaning head was adjusted not so much for need of its reduction but for easier pushing.  Just a teenybopper at the time of the Dial's introduction, I was left to believe that the maker had intended tthe suction adjustment to allow for easier pushing since no height adjustment was on the cleaner and because Hoover claimed its design compensated for the lack  (row if wide rollers at the front of the cleaner's base were intended to help "float" the front end.).  

However, the Dial-A-Matic  not have onboard tools.  Its hose locked on with a twist and a plastic bag for holding tools was first supplied. Though it is possible the hose could be left locked onto the machine while you used it for upright tasks the arrangement was too clumsy for most users to bother with.  There also was first, a soft plastic piece attached to the hose to allow the user to hook the hose on at the top of the cleaner's handle if you needed to leave off above floor vacuuming to go do something else.  Later down the line they came up with another hard plastic concoction to hold attaqchments near the end of the hose that held the dust brush, upholstery nozzle and the crevice tool near where the hose was locked on to the cleaner.   That same piece was also used as an attachment holder for the little Porta-Power vac.  Despite the power-drive models intorduction, I think the regular dials sold more.  Especially when Hoover saw he light and  introduced manually pushed dial models with a height adjustment installed.  These endured on the maret for a good while without many alterations otherwise.

Venson