Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Dyson sues rival Vax over vacuum cleaner design
Dyson has launched legal action against rival manufacturer Vax, claiming the design of its Mach Zen vacuum cleaner is an infringement of the registered design of its first "bagless" Dyson cylinder vacuum, launched 15 years ago.

The company's founder and inventor James Dyson – who revolutionised the domestic appliance market with the product – said the Chinese-owned rival had "flagrantly copied" Dyson's iconic design and pledged to set a precedent on behalf of all designers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jan/27/dyson-sues-vax

M00seUK wrote:

Hi M00seUK,

I'm not looking to pick a fight but this article reads awfully like yet another Dyson press releaase.  If there is indeed an actual lawsuit, this looks like a put up job.  I didn't feel much informed of by way of a news article's required "who, when, where and what" and came away wondering why the author invested so many words regarding Dyson's "back story" AND a photo of the irrepressible Jimmy D holding a Dyson Ball.  Could this be a photo op?  Whatever it is, the story stinks on hot ice.  Personally I think the guy's looking for a little extra free cash so that he can put the new boat in dry dock and have it painted a different shade.

By all means -- and I insist --  please do take my feeling on the matter with a grain of salt as I do not love Dyson product in the first place.  YET, there is one small point.  The Zen vacuum quite obviously does not closely resemble any canister vacuum that Dyson actually put out on the market.

Please inform me of, save for an actual, documented break-in into Dyson's vaults and theft of plans that it might have but never used, of the illegalities here.

That said, and I again am wont to be corrected, I still maintain that certain things once on the market are going to develop variations on a given theme to such a degree that all the whining over small and moot points is not going to get you anywhere.

Dyson did not itself invent cylonic vacuum cleaners.  The idea was already there by way of central vacuum systems and dust collection systems.  Dyson only came up with an idea of how to compact the technology for use in what would be considered a standard-sized portable household vacuum. And, even in light of that, there were still pre-Dyson vacuums claiming or alluding to whirlwind force and virtue.

I wonder who sued American Electrolux for finally shedding its long used metal runners for wheels other tank-type and canister vacs had been using all along.  I wonder who Electrolux sued for using sled-like runners.  This suit, or promise of it, is all more like an airplane manufacturer suing another airplane company because its product has wiing too.

Judges are not product designers nor are product designers the best judges in this case.  The issue is whether there was genuine intent to steal a manner of design and commit fraud.  What else is copyright infringement?  That will be hard to prove.

Venson

Hello Venson,
Copyright designs are an emotive issue. It must be frustrating for a company to create an individual, recognised style and then watch as competitors try to erode their market share by bringing out copycat designs that look much the same. As flattering as it might be, they should be competing on features and reinforcing their own style / reputation.

In the same vain, I'm not over-fond of companies (Partially in software, partially in the US) getting patents for very broad technologies which stifle competition.

Like many, I can see that the Vax design is very similar to Dyson's canisters. It's hard to imagine that the design brief was anything other than 'make it look similar to the Dyson'. What I don't know is where the line gets drawn on registered designs. If the high court has ruled that it doesn't infringe, that's where it stands... at least for the moment.

Dyson have said they'll appeal and are trying to win the heart + minds of the general public:-

"Dyson says it is baffled by the result: “There are plenty of other shapes that TTI could have chosen…Large round wheels, the angle of the clear bin, the line of the handle; does TTI’s Vax-badged machine resemble Dyson’s design?”

http://electricpig.co.uk/2010/07/29/dyson-loses-case-against-vax-design-infringement-but-what-do-you-think/

A spokesperson for Dyson added: “We’re disappointed, but we want to throw it out to people to see what they think.”

It's true to say that Dyson didn't invent cylonic vacuum cleaners as such, but they did invent and patent a dual-cyclone vacuum cleaner, which made the process much more feasible and consequently, sellable.

Dyson really do have a cheek, because this isn't the first time Dyson have taken other brands to court and won. It is true that the DC02 have been copied in several areas by Vax. but then so have other brands. Im quite happy for once that another brand has actually won a court battle against Dyson. The courts must be pretty fed up with Dyson taking companies to court.

Also the DC02 isn't made anymore so its a bit crazy of Dyson to take Vax to court over a latest design. It's not as if its going to hurt Dyson sales.

M00seUK wrote:

Hello M00seUK:

That's usually what losers say when they don't have a legal leg to stand on.  The high court ruled that the VAX cann beats dyson's 15 year old cann on every front, feature, and spec.  How does a copy beat the original?  Hands down no less.  At half the price of dyson's DC23 cann.  What's the court of popular opinion suppose to do to change the ruling to dyson's favor?   Sir James needs to take the court's ruling to heart and get to work in the drawing room not the court room.

Carmine D.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
I'd expect for a current machine to be better than the one it was 'inspired' from over 15 years ago. Compare it to the DC05 and they look even more similar. The reference to the DC02 must be for historic design / patent reasons.

It's clear that Dyson do compete on innovation more that anyone else in domestic vacuums, but it would be commercial suicide for them if they were to sit back each time and let anyone copy their designs or infinge on their patents. The upside for the consumer is that with judgements like this, they now have to work even harder on delivering the goods.

But it's it's likely they'll be other days in court...

M00seUK wrote:

If you're talking the VAX lawsuit, the VAX cann clearly trumps the 15 year old dyson on every spec including price at half as much as the current DC23.  175 british pounds for the VAX Zen versus 350 british pounds for dyson.

If you're fast forwarding to a future suit with LG Kompressor, you're giving me bigger belly laughs.  You post a combo tool as evidence of copyright infringement and suing?  A similar tool used 15 plus years apart is evidence of a vacuum copyright infringement?  Does dyson have a patent on the tool design?  If so, it should sue over it.  To its credit, dyson tools are good.  But they don't justify the exorbitant product prices for dysons and frivolous lawsuits mucking up the courts.

Dyson needs more homework in the drawing room and not the court room.  Then price the products fairly for consumers to buy/use.  That's how dyson will win favor in the court of public opinion with its consumers.  If not, dyson's vacuum products will be defunct and collectible items for the future and/or pallets of junk sold by the dirty dozen [including the tools].

Carmine D.

M00seUK wrote:

OMG that's the SAME tool that has been put on the Vax Mach Air model! Its one tool I can't stand using.

Hi,

Which? magazine's spin on the court decision follows.

http://www.which.co.uk/news/2010/07/vax-vacuum-isnt-a-dyson-rip-off-court-rules-222182

Venson

vacmanuk wrote:

OMG that's the SAME tool that has been put on the Vax Mach Air model! Its one tool I can't stand using.

I have the granddaddy to this tool that came with my Sears LG-cloned bagless can several years ago.  Almost the same design but it went one step further.  The brush for dusting slides off leaving a piece with velcro on its lips for vacuuming upholstery.  Another interesting idea that was a pain in the neck.  It was quite easy to get the tip of your finger pinched when pressing the buttons to extend it.

Venson

By the way, I meant to mention that the DC02 Dyson in the Which? article is very similar to the long gone Fantom canister vac. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXDKH8zZmvI

How'd that happen?  Anyway . . .

If imitation is the greatest form of flattery then what does theft of the actual product represent?  A perverse assessment of value?  Beauty, value and all that being in the eye of the beholder -- maybe the following article will make ol' JD feel a little better.  The world wants Dyson so badly there are those prepared to steal them.  Bet ya Dirt Devil wishes it could say the same.  This, as far as I know, this __ vacuum cleaner theft -- is an American phenomenom. Is there much report of Dyson theft in Europe?

http://www.hometownlife.com/article/20100729/NEWS24/7290502

Venson