Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Hey all, I have a burning moral issue; I LOVE Miele vacuums, and other bagged machines (Kirby, Electrolux, Sebo, Sweden Electrolux), but HOW MUCH OF AN IMPACT do the bags and filters make on the environment?  ESPECIALLY Miele with all that unecessary plastic and metal on their bags and A LOT of unnecessary plastic on their filters?


What's your guys's opinion on this subject?

Some good points there Venson. However it's the same adage with cost optional filters. I've recently replaced my "yearly," AAC filter on my Miele S4000 but do you know, I had that filter for 3 years AS OPPOSED to Miele's official "yearly change," suggestion. Over the HEPA filter, I find the cheaper AAC type just as good on sealing odours from the bag/suction air from the room. Companies such as Miele have little to worry about with their suction; Miele models sell based on their reliability, quietness, general performance and usefulness - one of the reasons to why I like the company and in particular go out of their way to make tools that even other brands have tried to copy (like the rather nifty Extender/Flexhose I added on here earlier in other posts).

vacmanuk wrote:

Ok, the cardboard bending theory makes sense - in theory, but theoretically if one were to use thick enough cardboard it really wouldn't be an issue. Also, tell me then, why Electrolux of Sweden uses cardboard collars? Again, a quality company making quality and 2200W machines that still use S-Bag cardboard collars. The UltraOne - which has been independently tested to have more suction than a Miele - still uses card board collars? You're theories and statements just aren't coherent with the presumably investigated and intelligent decisions of other quality, established vacuum manufacturers.

You've obviously got a thing about Electrolux and that's great - however the synthetics when dumped or disposed of take longer to break down / degrade than the plastic holders, so where's your argument in that? The synthetics are made up from using recycled biodegradeable plastics and fibre-glass. Please don't start jumping on other brands products without fully knowing what the policies are. Also good on Electrolux for having a bag that has greater suction. In the UK, Electrolux aren't supplying the same machine as the continent are getting and that's a big mistake for many owners and buyers who love the brand. However their cylinder vacuums in my experience just aren't as well built as both Sebo or Miele.

vacmanuk wrote:

Don't start pointing fingers about whose got "things" for brands. Seriously; it's just for arguments sake. It just totally contradicts all your statements about cardboard being completely inadequate for a proper quality seal. My argument is: The plastic collars are *UNNECESSARY*. The synthetic bag is necessary for the filtration, but given other brands still use a cardboard collar, it makes me think all that plastic Miele uses for their collars could be used for their vacuums or other. Also, a bag doesn't have suction, a vacuum does, and what do you mean "not supplying the same machine"? Just curious.

Hertz wrote:
No I'll think you'll find that it was YOU who brought up the question of a cardboard seal being used as a environmentally friendly substance on a bag against Miele's plastic holders which you find unnecessary. This is what your original topic infers. The question of sealing did not enter this debate until later. My statements do not contradict - but rather offer an independent opinion which has put your nose out of joint! You seem to think that Electrolux supply the same machines that you have (wherever you are, clearly it isn't in the UK) but Electrolux have CAPPED THEIR RANGE FOR THE UK. For example:

Take a look at http://www.electrolux.co.uk/node408.aspx?categoryid=15688 and you'll find that the UK only has basic vacuums such as the Powerplus, Powerlite, BAGGED cylinder vacuums, several base BAGLESS models and POWERLITE uprights. Infact the whole line up that the UK are getting are CHINESE built vacuums. AEG UK doesn't offer any of the vacuums that you can additionally find in other countries either. The UK don't have the ULTRA ONE vacuums let alone any of the ones available in the U.S and other countries and I said THIS BEFORE. I'm using the UK ones as the base for my experience, having owned both models I can say that the cardboard holders are next to useless and none of them have proper seals - oh wait, I'm mistaken - there's a fold in flap that is supposed to constitute as a seal  - sorry but a 3/4 flap on the Powerlite bags - doesn't give me extra confidence.

What comes across here is actual ownership of the vacuums. All you've done here is relayed company policy and I've done that too - the difference here is, ACTUAL experience of ownership counteracts what the companies would have you believe and against Miele, their HYCLEAN bags were not perfect, a fact that I had written a review online about it and Miele had sent me a letter asking if I would send the faulty bags in to see what went wrong. The result of that is obviously a redesign called "Air Clean," with improved design. Still, they use a plastic holder. I know they are recycled and if the box carries a recycling sign, REGARDLESS of the fact that they are plastic against cardboard, I'm more than happy to trust in the fact IN THIS INSTANCE that the WHOLE product is recycleable.

After a lengthy email to Electrolux, I had a response from a customer service division who says that the new Ultra One bagged vacuum is FINALLY COMING TO THE UK. However it won't be under the Electrolux badge, but rather AEG. Electrolux have done this before; and the prices will be higher than Electrolux vacs alone. Whilst I look forward to the new Ultra One, Electrolux have played up to consumers "thoughts" that by putting the AEG "made in Germany," tag, buyers will assume their new product range for 2010 sits in the same circles as Miele, Sebo and other premium companies. Watch this space!

Hi vacmanuk,

Here's the AEG URL: http://www.aeg-electrolux.co.uk/node143.asp?CategoryID=4554

Venson

vacmanuk wrote:

Outside of "glorifying" the brand name to command more $, have the past AEG Electrolux products been particularly better considering the higher prices?

Carmine D.

vacmanuk wrote:
This is in no way uncommon w/ companies.  If we look at AB Electrolux Group, we can see that they have always done this.  In the U.S., they had Eureka as their regular line, Sanitaire as their premium/heavy duty special vac shop line,  White-Westinghouse as their "budget" line and for a short time, they allowed distribution of the Viking line as another vac shop premium.  AB Electrolux did the same thing with their other appliance lines like major appliance brands.

Companies want a large slice of the pie and this is the way to do it.  You may think that they have a small slice of 5% , but w/the other brands they hold, they could hold  something like 7%.  It is all about reaching as much of the market as possible. Kirby had done it in the past w/Douglas.  They sold their premium Kirby, but also had a budget line-Douglas.  Not everyone can buy a Kirby, but some can afford a Douglas.  Some will not touch a Douglas power team, but were interested in a Kirby.

It is all about business.

vacmanuk wrote:

Well here's the opinion of an extremely enthusiastic and apparently knowleadgable vacuum collector who has extensive experience with very high-end vacuums like Sebo, Rainbow, and Aerus Electrolux, and he states that his UltraOne is *THE BEST* vacuum he's ever used, from performance, to noise, to suction, and the build quality seems good - not the best, but from what I can see, it looks good - possible even excellent. Here's his video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbMnAnUXJCE&fmt=18