Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
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ArtieV1
Joined: Jul 30, 2007
Points: 1
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"What has dyson invented now?"
Original Message Oct 11, 2009 11:23 pm |
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I received this "teaser email today: http://links.mkt2388.com/ctt?kn=1&m=2735925&r=MTgwOTM1MTgzMTcS1&b=0&j=NzgxMTAyODMS1&mt=1&rt=0
Anyone know what's up with this??
-=Art=-
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: "What has dyson invented now?"
Reply #112 Oct 19, 2009 5:01 pm |
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I'd imagine that, like with hand driers, that the heating element will most often fail before the fan motor. The same is likely true with a hair drier and heat is important in the task of drying hair. Can you make a case for the health risks of carbon deposits from traditional motors in hair driers? If so, a brush-less motor could be a consideration for people who use hair driers each day, i.e. hair stylists.
Probable but highly impractical for a dyson product venue. Why? Dyson's MO is to reinvent existing technology and add a huge premium: i.e.: ball barrows; contrarotating washers; hand driers; hand held vacuums; fans. You and others opine that hand held hair driers are a new frontier ripe for the dyson picking. I disagree. Why? My question is: If and when it ever comes to be, at what price will it be? As with all the other dyson products mentioned, they are so overpriced as to make them obsolete for sale to the general public [even professional hair stylists which is a niche market]: Air Blade, Air Multiplier, Contrarotating washer, etc. As Venson and others point out, disposable household products marked up to the sky's the limit price are very consumer unfriendly. Works maybe for household vacuums, which retail for $200-$300. Not fans and hand and hair driers.
But that never stops Sir James. If a $80 hand held gets a dyson price of $270, and an Air Blade hand drier gets a dyson price of $1400, and a 10 inch $10 fan gets a dyson price of $330, what on God's green earth would a hand held hair drier list for? $400-$500. Perhaps, especially due to the higher wattage of these products. Of course, I might be mistaken. It may be even more. One thing is sure based on dyson's past product pricing, it won't be less than $400. Carmine D.
This message was modified Oct 19, 2009 by CarmineD
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M00seUK
Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Points: 295
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Re: "What has dyson invented now?"
Reply #113 Oct 19, 2009 5:54 pm |
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Probable but highly impractical for a dyson product venue. Why? Dyson's MO is to reinvent existing technology and add a huge premium: i.e.: ball barrows; contrarotating washers; hand driers; hand held vacuums; fans. You and others opine that hand held hair driers are a new frontier ripe for the dyson picking. I disagree. Why? My question is: If and when it ever comes to be, at what price will it be? As with all the other dyson products mentioned, they are so overpriced as to make them obsolete for sale to the general public [even professional hair stylists which is a niche market]: Air Blade, Air Multiplier, Contrarotating washer, etc. As Venson and others point out, disposable household products marked up to the sky's the limit price are very consumer unfriendly. Works maybe for household vacuums, which retail for $200-$300. Not fans and hand and hair driers. But that never stops Sir James. If a $80 hand held gets a dyson price of $270, and an Air Blade hand drier gets a dyson price of $1400, and a 10 inch $10 fan gets a dyson price of $330, what on God's green earth would a hand held hair drier list for? $400-$500. Perhaps, especially due to the higher wattage of these products. Of course, I might be mistaken. It may be even more. One thing is sure based on dyson's past product pricing, it won't be less than $400. Carmine D. If you take a closer look at what I've written I'm actually sceptical if a hair drier would benefit from brush-less motor. I'm of the conclusion that if the heating element isn't improved on, then it appears a little pointless to have motor which offer the benefit of a greater MTBF. Maybe they could, like with the Dyson handheld, make the casing a bit smaller and if at all possible, reduce the noise... maybe it could in theory work in professional haircare... it sounds unlikely, although I would have thought the same at the prospect of a £200 Dyson fan at one point...
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: "What has dyson invented now?"
Reply #115 Oct 19, 2009 7:37 pm |
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Guys: The professional grade dyson hand held hair drier would be a "possible" seller for the hair industry IF dyson replaced the product free if it failed during a 5-10 year period for any reason. The product replacement period depends on the initial purchase price. $400-$500 and dyson would have to give a 5 year free product replacement upon failure. More pricey and a longer product replacement period is needed. Obviously this would be strictly a niche product and market. Targeting professionals in the hair industry. These folks typically have yearly conferences and training programs which are an ideal venue for Sir James to hawk his product IF it ever materializes. Carmine D.
This message was modified Oct 19, 2009 by CarmineD
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Venson
Joined: Jul 23, 2007
Points: 1900
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Re: "What has dyson invented now?"
Reply #117 Oct 20, 2009 11:05 am |
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An air purifier's job is just that -- purifying the air. A hair dryer's job is hair drying. That said, innovation is great BUT if expected to be mass marketable it still has to be affordable, easy to maintain and literally a no-brainer to be used by that motley crew, the public. I believe that practicality sells faster than "innovation".
Small appliances are best kept simple. Filtered air delivery is a nice idea but again potential disaster for appliances like table fans and hair dryers and bound tio cause more problems than they solve.
The actual advantage of the brushless motor as regards power output, power consumption and length of life has, to my knowledge, not been presented here. If brushless motors are effective, affordable to buy and economical to replace, bring 'em on I say. However, that so far has not proved to be the case. When I hear of new-fangled motors I also here of high price.
As well, it has not been clearly stated if these motors are replaceable or easily repairable. If one goes bad in an item I buy, do I take it to MOLE to be fixed or do I dump it? Will the manufacturer replace it? Though I am looking forward to a day when electric motor size is dramatically reduced while maintaining the power average, for most household applications presently in place we appear still better served with standard electric motors.
Vacmanuk, the bigger issue in the home environment is not carbon dust from appliances that we use in ten-minute spurts but ourselves. Stats still have it that we -- by way of the myriad skin cells, etc., (human detritus) that we shed each day -- are the greater producer of household dust.
I'm glad to learn that you mother has maintained and kept her hair dryer for eight years but how have the majority of her neighbors fared with theirs?
By the way guys, I have yet to see an Air Blade here in town. I have seen many new, very fast hand dryers installed in stores and businesses all over the place but have not made one sighting of the Air Blade.
Motorhead, my argument is just about the same here too. Good steering I worry about when I in drive my car. I have used many, many vacuum cleaners over my life and have seen no great difficulty in maneuvering any of them. I learned how to work with the machine I had at any given time.
A vacuum with "power steering" would probably be great for you or me but a disaster on the larger market. There's too much to go wrong, especially in the hands of careless users and those impatient persons who never read user guides. Unfortunately, it is generally accepted that all you need do is plug in your machine and go. To make a vacuum with an electrified steering system could be done I'm sure but to make an appliance that's impervious to it's greatest threat, being in the hands of humans, probably can never be executed in a cost-effective manner. These ideas are probably best left to the robot makers.
New ideas that are anticipated to be salable to the masses have to made for the tech-savvy AND the not so tech-savvy. They should also be priced in close enough budget range for those with challenged budgets to feel the items are something worth reaching for. New innovation priced for the few is not my idea of making good business. The idea of getting some of everybody's money is.
Best,
Venson
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DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
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Re: "What has dyson invented now?" (Now, now guys...)
Reply #118 Oct 20, 2009 1:16 pm |
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Wow, quite a lot of jealousy here I see! Once again, if the design of the Air Multiplier was so obvious, why didn't any of y'all think of it first?  What an awesome fan that is, and watching Jack's (Model2) video demonstrations only makes me want one even more. I heard about the Air Multiplier around 6 months ago from none other than Tom Gasko. He was under the impression that it would be a bladeless ceiling fan, and from what I hear there's a ceiling fan in the works, but it now makes sense that Sir James would bring it out as a table fan to gauge the public reaction. Not to mention giving time to iron out the quirks involved with adapting and producing a light kit for it as well. And (aside from a select few posts on here and other similar sites...) it seems the public reaction to the AM as a whole has been favorable. Either way, the AM ceiling fan should be a solution to a HUGE problem that has plagued us for decades...vibrating, dusty, wobbly ceiling fans that produce mostly choppy air, or do not seem to move any air at all on lower speeds. Offering an optional built-in heater would be a good idea as well, for homes that are either without central heat or overly drafty. Along with the "jet-engine" appearance, I predict that 40 years from now it will be looked at in the same way we look at "mod" fixtures from the 1960's today. Sleek, cool, and a perfect combination of design and functionality. May even add to the value of homes that have them installed! While we're on the subject of new Dyson innovations, Tom suggested that there are more in the works where this came from. Among them will be a juice extractor that can juice an entire orange without halving it or adding any of the bitter zest to the juice. That's been a big complaint of mine for a long time regarding juicing oranges with an extractor and why I've always preferred to use a simple reamer-type citrus juicer. There will also be a toaster that is completely sealed from the escaping moisture from toasting bread, and a dishwasher that converts hydrogen peroxide into a cleaning agent by means of an ionic charge plate. On the vacuum front, the self-propelled MotorDrive is in the process of being test-marketed here in the States. Not entirely sure what the model will be, perhaps either DC29 or DC32, but I should find out more in the near future. It is similar in appearance to the DC28 (except no cam actuator to adjust the brushbar), with four motors. Two DDMs for the suction and brushbar, respectively, and two servo-motors for each rear wheel. The brushbar will be driven off a simple gearbox, which puts to rest the myth of switched-reluctance motors not being able to produce any torque. Are they as powerful as traditional carbon-brush universal motors at the moment, no, but they can obviously produce enough torque to drive a gearbox. In that situation, at least with the DDM, speed is at an advantage, producing enough power off reduction gearing without sacrificing brushbar speed (and subsequently cleaning performance). The self-propulsion system is what is most unique, addressing the problem of steering difficulty that has plagued Kirby, Hoover, etc. When the handle is turned either to the left or right, it will engage the respective servo-motor providing effortless power steering. It is the most responsive and innovative drive system to date, utilizing electronics similar to a joystick to control the drive rather than complex linkage. Due to the self-propulsion electronics in the handle, this will also be the first Dyson upright not to have the wand in the handle for above-floor cleaning. Between Dyson, Tacony, and Miele, it's nice to know someone well-rounded in the industry to provide this great information. Take care everyone, MH P.S. Carmine, I hear where you're going, there will be an amalgam of AM01s to provide air circulation, and DC07s for you, Mole, and David Oreck to clean the place with...what can I say, guess they have good taste in vacuums and fans down there too Hey Motorhead, Venson as Severus wants you to believe he’s friendly of Tom and friendly to Dyson. Severus as Venson sits on his hands as his buddies here attack Tom often and with vigor. His Dyson position typically is - Dyson inventions are no good, cost to much, can’t make money, don’t solve problems, he’s not buying a Dyson anything, so why bother (Dyson should close their doors). Although he is a believer that the tired bagged vacuum, in the public domain commodity (vacs his buddies livelihood’s depend on) are exciting, fresh and radically differing amongst the umpteen manufacturers. A brushroll, a suction generator, a collection sack/filter and mounted on 4 wheels... I described just about every bagged vacuum cleaner on the planet and since the 1960’s. *Are you laughing? - I am! Venson as Severus, The stupidity title is yours. Since the forum opened all posters who click the quote link simply write their comments under the quoted text. Why in the world would you post above the quote, which makes for quoting you and the thread organized. Or is this a feeble attempt at making yourself appear not as Venson? Are you laughing? - I am! DIB *I support American mfg big time, if they have integrity, if they employee Americans at a fare wage - regardless of inventiveness.
This message was modified Oct 20, 2009 by DysonInventsBig
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: "What has dyson invented now?"
Reply #119 Oct 20, 2009 2:28 pm |
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DIB: More of your usual dyson idiosy and lunacy. Can't you/dyson accept constructive realisitc criticism of dyson's product foibles, fantasies, and fallacies without blaming and condemning the truthsayers, vacuum indies, non-dyson buying consumers, vacuum industry, and vacuum competition? Here's a novel mature approach for you. Take responsibility. Be accountable. Own up to all dyson's product limitations and shortcomings. Perhaps, dare I say, even address them honestly, quickly and professionally. This business like and intelligent approach would actually increase dyson's sales rather than lessen them. Carmine D. |
DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
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Re: "What has dyson invented now?"
Reply #120 Oct 20, 2009 2:41 pm |
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DIB: More of your usual dyson idiosy and lunacy. Can't you/dyson accept constructive realisitc criticism of dyson's product foibles, fantasies, and fallacies without blaming and condemning the truthsayers, vacuum indies, non-dyson buying consumers, vacuum industry, and vacuum competition? Here's a novel mature approach for you. Take responsibility. Be accountable. Own up to all dyson's product limitations and shortcomings. Perhaps, dare I say, even address them honestly, quickly and professionally. This business like and intelligent approach would actually increase dyson's sales rather than lessen them. Carmine D. The reason I have so much success in life and much “fruit” in my life is because I refuse to listen to the corrupt words of men. Since you're of religious status, I understand the many why’s to your many failures. The Book says to put off the corruptible and put on the incorruptible. I do not get the religious; I see nothing remotely fun or fulfilling about it? DIB
This message was modified Oct 20, 2009 by DysonInventsBig
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: "What has dyson invented now?"
Reply #121 Oct 20, 2009 3:18 pm |
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DIB: You proclaim the Book but do so out of context. There is a huge difference between a leap of faith and a leap of foolishness. The Book tells us to beware of false prophets and the unleavened bread of the Pharisees. Even the Divine Master enjoyed the fellowship of the table with scribes, tax collectors, and whores. Recall the 12 he chose as the Apostles, bearer of the good news, were weak men prone to sin, greed, lust, lack of faith, lack of hope, and lack of love and mostly definitely cowardice. One even betrayed Him for money. All whilst they professed to Him otherwise. Fortunately they received the gift of the Holy Spirit. But like all God's graces one must be open to receive it. They're are none so blind as they who will not see. Carmine D.
This message was modified Oct 20, 2009 by CarmineD
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