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DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Little vacuum cleaner men in big YouTube chairs...
Original Message   Feb 15, 2009 4:22 pm
How long until someone exposes the rubbish and lies of [vacuum cleaner] *clubbers and *dealers who use YouTube as their platform? 


DIB

*Not all, just many (are dirty).
This message was modified Feb 15, 2009 by DysonInventsBig



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CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: Little vacuum cleaner men in big YouTube chairs...
Reply #10   Feb 19, 2009 5:25 pm
I can't speak for the NAD [like you] and have not seen an official position from it on these dyson claims.  Let alone one that even vaguely supports your innuendo.  I can speak for the general vacuum buying public and say both former dyson claims: "Never clogs, and never loses suction" are the 2 biggest myths ever perpetrated on the vacuum industry in all my years of professional experience.  Both are attributed to your fave dyson brand within the last 6 years. 

The question for me and others [which remains unanswered] is how many new dysons were sold to unsuspecting buyers who relied on these false and exaggerated claims.  I suspect many were returned to retailers when their owners learned the truth which accounts for the huge resale market for used/refurbed dyson vacuums. 

It's a moot point now except for the future and the more wiser:  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.  

Carmine D.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: Little vacuum cleaner men in big YouTube chairs...
Reply #11   Feb 19, 2009 7:50 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Bag technology aside, surface area is king, yet the Electrolux Infinity ranks high.  Hmmm


I recall a now famous ASA ruling recently against dyson UK.  ASA found and ruled based on the preponderence of test evidence of several vacuum industry professionals that the Electrolux Infinity upright with a full paper bag outcleaned a dyson DC14 by over 40 percent.  And, subsequently, the Infinity was allowed to keep its written advertised claim that it was a better rug performer than a dyson [much to James chagrin, who initiated the ASA action, and your unkind characterizations of the ASA rule makers here]. 

However, I can't recall that the Electrolux Infinity upright was ever a test model in the Consumer Reports in the recent past.  Perhaps I misunderstand/misinterpret your statement.  Would you mind elaborating on your above statement?

Carmine D.

Model2


~ It Beats...as it Sweeps...as it Cleans ~

Location: England
Joined: Jan 8, 2009
Points: 155

Re: Little vacuum cleaner men in big YouTube chairs...
Reply #12   Feb 19, 2009 11:33 pm
CarmineD wrote:
I recall a now famous ASA ruling recently against dyson UK.  ASA found and ruled based on the preponderence of test evidence of several vacuum industry professionals that the Electrolux Infinity upright with a full paper bag outcleaned a dyson DC14 by over 40 percent.  And, subsequently, the Infinity was allowed to keep its written advertised claim that it was a better rug performer than a dyson [much to James chagrin, who initiated the ASA action, and your unkind characterizations of the ASA rule makers here]. 



Guys, are we talking about the Electrolux Intensity here? I can find no ASA reference to an 'Infinity'. If so, here's the appropriate report, and the picture's not quite as you painted it, Carmine. They ruled in Dyson's favour...

ASA Adjudications

Electrolux Home Products Ltd
Addlington Way
Luton
Bedfordshire
W4 9QQ
Number of complaints: 1
Date:9 July 2008
Media:Magazine
Sector:Household

Ad

An ad for an Electrolux Intensity vacuum cleaner in ERT magazine featured an image of the product above text that stated "THE EVOLUTION OF THE VACUUM CLEANER IS NOW COMPLETE ... The new 'Intensity' is so powerful, it surpasses the suction power of the leading upright in the UK by over 50%, giving your customers an intense deep clean".

Issue

Dyson Ltd, who believed the "leading upright in the UK" referred to the Dyson DC14, challenged whether the claim "The new 'Intensity' is so powerful, it surpasses the suction power of the leading upright in the UK by 50%, giving your customers an intense deep clean" was misleading, because they believed the suction power of the DC14 was greater than that of the Electrolux Intensity, which they believed decreased more quickly with use, and because it implied that the Electrolux Intensity cleaned better than the DC14.

Investigated under CAP Code clauses 3.1 (Substantiation), 7.1 (Truthfulness) and 18.1 and 18.3 (Comparisons with identified competitors).

The CAP Code: 3.1;7.1;18.1;18.3

Response

Electrolux Home Products Ltd (Electrolux) said the suction power of the Intensity had been tested by an independent testing laboratory before the ad was published. They submitted copies of the test report for the Intensity, as well as copies of test reports for other vacuum cleaner products. They also submitted a copy of a certificate issued by the independent test laboratory.

Electrolux said the tests were a fair and effective comparison of the Intensity with other vacuum cleaners of similar specification, power and price. They said the results of the tests showed that the Intensity produced far greater suction power than any other comparable Dyson product currently available on the market. Electrolux said that, while they accepted that all vacuum cleaners would lose some suction power during use, it was their view that even when the Intensity had been in use for some time, for example when the bag needed to be changed, the suction power of the Intensity would still exceed that of comparable products by some 50% or more.

Electrolux said they were confident that, given the superiority of the suction power performance of the Intensity, it would deliver a superior cleaning performance to that of any comparable product.

Assessment

Upheld

The ASA took expert advice. The expert said the independent test data supplied by Electrolux was reliable and of good quality.

The expert explained that suction power alone did not give the true measure of cleaning performance, even when measured at the nozzle for upright cleaners. He said the effectiveness of the brush roll or agitator was more significant, because it was that rotating element that loosened the dirt and brushed it into the nozzle. The expert explained that it was then the airflow and not suction power that became more relevant in transporting the dirt into the receptacle. The expert explained that suction power was a result of both suction (negative pressure) and airflow, and that it was possible to have a high suction power value with high suction and relatively low airflow or vice versa. He said it was the latter case that would be more conclusive in determining overall cleaning performance on floors. The expert pointed out that high suction power did not necessarily equate to good cleaning performance, and that equally a reduction in cleaning performance did not necessarily result from a reduction in suction power due to bag 'clogging'.

The expert believed the suction power test data submitted by Electrolux was not sufficient to support the claim that the Intensity gave an "intense deep clean", because it did not include test data relating to cleaning performance.

We noted the independent test data submitted by Electrolux. Although we had not seen up-to-date comparative sales figures to support the market leadership claim made in the ad, we acknowledged that the independent laboratory test data provided by Electrolux showed that, when tested in accordance with International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) Standard 60312 clause 2.8, the Intensity did have 50% more suction power than Dyson's DC14 as well as the other vacuum cleaners that Electrolux had tested. Nevertheless, we understood that it was the effectiveness of the agitator and the measure of airflow, rather than suction power alone, that was most relevant in assessing a vacuum cleaner's cleaning performance. We understood that that was because the action of the agitator loosened the dirt and brushed it into the nozzle, and that it was airflow that then transported the dirt from the nozzle into the receptacle.

We considered that the claim made in the ad linked suction power to cleaning performance, and therefore implied that the "intense deep clean" provided by the Electrolux Intensity was as a result of the product's suction power. We also considered that, by linking the '50% more' suction power claim to the cleaning performance claim, the ad also implied that the Intensity cleaned better than the DC14 and the other tested vacuum cleaners. We noted that Electrolux had sent us data that related only to the suction power of the Intensity and not to its dust removal ability, and we therefore did not consider that those test results alone were sufficient to support the cleaning performance claim made in the ad. Because we had not seen data that measured the cleaning performance of the Intensity, we concluded that the ad was misleading.

The ad breached CAP Code clauses 3.1 (Substantiation), 7.1 (Truthfulness) and 18.1 and 18.3 (Comparisons with identified competitors).


Action

Action

We told Electrolux not to make claims relating to the suction power of the Intensity unless they also held data that demonstrated the dust removal ability of the product. We advised them to seek guidance from the CAP Copy Advice team when preparing future ads.

Adjudication of the ASA Council (Non-broadcast)
This message was modified Feb 19, 2009 by Model2


~ However Clean - Hoover Cleaner ~
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: Little vacuum cleaner men in big YouTube chairs...
Reply #13   Feb 20, 2009 6:43 am
Intensity is the Electrolux I was talking about.  I also thought it was 40 percent and is actually 50 percent.  I understand that is with a full bag inside the Intensity.  Here's the applicable cite from the ASA ruling [excerpted from your post] that I honed in on in mine:

"We [ASA] noted the independent test data submitted by Electrolux. Although we had not seen up-to-date comparative sales figures to support the market leadership claim made in the ad, we acknowledged that the independent laboratory test data provided by Electrolux showed that, when tested in accordance with International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) Standard 60312 clause 2.8, the Intensity did have 50% more suction power than Dyson's DC14 as well as the other vacuum cleaners that Electrolux had tested."

As I stated in reply to DIB, I have not seen a Consumer Reports rank and rating on the Electrolux Intensity, tho I would certainly hope and want to. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: Little vacuum cleaner men in big YouTube chairs...
Reply #14   Feb 20, 2009 6:59 am
Again from your post, I excerpted the relevant part of the dyson suit against Electrolux's claim.  The bottom line is this:  If you compare the Electrolux Intensity claim with the dyson counter claim, ASA ruled in favor of the Intensity on 50 percent greater suction power than the DC14.  What ASA did not rule in favor of Electrolux was on the further claim that suction power is linked to deep cleaning power.  And, therefore Electrolux could not make that additional claim w/o submission of futher evidence.

Carmine D.

Ad


An ad for an Electrolux Intensity vacuum cleaner in ERT magazine featured an image of the product above text that stated "THE EVOLUTION OF THE VACUUM CLEANER IS NOW COMPLETE ... The new 'Intensity' is so powerful, it surpasses the suction power of the leading upright in the UK by over 50%, giving your customers an intense deep clean".

Issue

Dyson Ltd, who believed the "leading upright in the UK" referred to the Dyson DC14, challenged whether the claim "The new 'Intensity' is so powerful, it surpasses the suction power of the leading upright in the UK by 50%, giving your customers an intense deep clean" was misleading, because they believed the suction power of the DC14 was greater than that of the Electrolux Intensity, which they believed decreased more quickly with use, and because it implied that the Electrolux Intensity cleaned better than the DC14.
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: Little vacuum cleaner men in big YouTube chairs...
Reply #15   Feb 20, 2009 7:02 am
PS:  Note ASA uses agitator, a HOOVER term, in referring to brush roll cleaning.

Carmine D.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: Little vacuum cleaner men in big YouTube chairs...
Reply #16   Feb 20, 2009 7:10 am
WRT myths, a longstanding industry tale was that suction alone could clean rugs.  Some whose fave brand talked one time about not losing suction made this point too when they praised 270 Air Watts and kow towed the wimpy brush.

Clearly the ASA ruling squashes the suction myth for cleaning carpets.  Ironic?  Yes, but also a good ASA ruling.

Carmine D.

Model2


~ It Beats...as it Sweeps...as it Cleans ~

Location: England
Joined: Jan 8, 2009
Points: 155

Re: Little vacuum cleaner men in big YouTube chairs...
Reply #17   Feb 20, 2009 4:21 pm
'CarmineD wrote:
PS:  Note ASA uses agitator, a HOOVER term, in referring to brush roll cleaning.

Carmine D.


'Agitator', with a capital 'A', was certainly a Hoover term orginally, but now it's used interchangably with the terms 'brush roll' and 'brush bar' by many manufacturers; see for example the catalog listing for the Panasonic Icon models below, which references their 'beltless direct drive agitator'. Hoover abandoned the term, at least in the UK, in the early 1980s with the introduction of the Turbopower/Turbomaster uprights, which used the all-new 'Activator', which was a modern progression on the original Agitator design. Hoover UK sadly no longer use any form of beater on their upright brush bars.



~ However Clean - Hoover Cleaner ~
Model2


~ It Beats...as it Sweeps...as it Cleans ~

Location: England
Joined: Jan 8, 2009
Points: 155

Re: Little vacuum cleaner men in big YouTube chairs...
Reply #18   Feb 20, 2009 4:36 pm
CarmineD wrote:

As I stated in reply to DIB, I have not seen a Consumer Reports rank and rating on the Electrolux Intensity, tho I would certainly hope and want to. 

Carmine D.


I don't have the Consumer Reports findings on the Electrolux Intensity, but here's Which? Magazine's verdict:


Test criteriaRating
Cleaning
Carpet 4 stars
Laminate floors 4 stars
Floorboards 2 stars
Walls and corners 4 stars
Performance
Allergen retention 2 stars
Pet hair  5 stars
Noise 1 star
Ease of use
General use  3 stars
Emptying  4 stars
Cleaning stairs 1 star
Manoeuvrability  3 stars

I personally have an Electrolux Intensity, and I can confirm it does do a passable job on carpets. However, the RRP of £286 is laughable for a cleaner with such miniscule bags and no on-board tools. The cord is much, much too short, and it's incredibly heavy to push the bulky motor-unit/nozzle from the rear of the machine, especially when the front is glued to the carpet by the much vaunted suction! Also, it's main party-trick is it's ability to fold up small for storage. However, since you have to purchase an additional canister cleaner for 'above floor' cleaning, you lose the space you save by buying this expensive compact in the first place! It also weighs at least as much as a full-size upright. Save your money and go for a decent all-rounder.

~ However Clean - Hoover Cleaner ~
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454

Re: Little vacuum cleaner men in big YouTube chairs...
Reply #19   Feb 20, 2009 5:19 pm
Model2,

I am always thankful hearing and seeing vacuum related information from the UK.  Thanks!

I’d like to reciprocate.  Below is a snapshot from 9/2007 CR Canada (for you too Carmine)...

DIB

< click to enlarge
This message was modified Feb 20, 2009 by DysonInventsBig



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