Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Carmine,

Have you selected the C/V for your Daughter/SIL's home? (I favor MD for quiet performance and convenient dirt disposal) I was wondering what your take on C/V is? The #1 complaint, of course, is the hose. There are at present three solutions: 1) The hose Genie which stores the wire reinforced hose in a wall cavity between studs. 2) The Hide-a-Hose which stores the hose in the C/V tubing itself (but cannot use an electric p/n.) And 3) the new 'click' modular hose offered by M/D which looks positively brilliant. With sufficient inlets a 20ft hose is adequate for vacuuming all the major traffic areas, and a 10 or 15 ft section can be clicked in when needed. No more struggling with fiddly buttons to push while simultaneously pulling or pushing on a tube. I also saw online a coiled stretch hose in a reel. Pull it out and the C/V automatically starts. Instant clean up of a thousand tiny messes that are too small to bother dragging out a vacuum (or a big C/V hose) to deal with. If I were going to go to the trouble and expense of intsalling a C/V I would not stint on inlets, Vacu Sweep inlets, or the above mentioned at-the-ready-stretch hoses. A hose, tool kit and P/N on each level and a tool kit in the garage. If it is worth installing, might as well get the maximum convenience possible. Your thoughts, please and what would you select as as pn/ and tools all the way around?

In my opinion, Carmine, the real convenience lies in the things like the vac pan and the hose I mentioned in my original post, (it is called VROOM and can be viewed on the VacuFlo website). Personally, I would not install one unless I went full tilt for maximun convenience. I did have a design client who went all hard surface floors and had a C/V installed with no less than 32!!! Vac pans plus (VROOM not available then) door lift activated inlets in EVERY closet and bath, and at least one in every room with a base cabinet (library, media, dining, breakfast,laundry) just for the use of the stretch hoses (stored at the ready). She would have none of the long, big, bulky hoses, and had a P/N (at hubby's insistence) with a 110V 'cheater ' wall plug for occasional use on the rugs, most of the time it was just a good straight suction rug tool. Vacuuming to her was a hated chore, and she wanted it over with immediately without going to get anything and then setting up. She had brooms stashed in every nook and cranny. She did have a very clean house, though. I think she had OCD but hated to clean!

Does your daughter live in a two story house? For the cost of a proper install, she could get 2 S-7's one up and one down.

Trebor

Carmine,

When I worked for a major lighting showroom that sold central vacs, I did most of the vac layouts for the customer that purchased them. The trouble with a layout that is already roughed in is that it is done from a floor plan with no consideration as to furniture placement, and with an eye toward installing as few inlets as possible. Have your daughter, or better still, help her take a 25 foot length of garden hose, (or vacuum hose if you have it) holding one end at the inlet, and taping the other to a vacuum wand with a floor tool. I would wager that to really gain maximum benfit frpom a C/V install several more inlets and vac pans would need to be installed. It is disheartening to see a C/V owner buy a potable because of a poorly planned/executed install. MORE inlets are always better, more vac pan are always better. A C/V is supposed to be faster and more convenient. And why would anyone want to dump a C/V canister? Paper bags are the way to go, longer motor lfe, no outside venting, and much greater convenience.

Trebor wrote:
CVS require less frequent emptying than and bagless models possibly offer less expense on consumables like bags and filters.  A well-made system should have a by -pass motor (motor separtely cooled).  Dirty air in no way is used to cool actual motor components.

Venson

Venson,

I do not understand deciding to install a C/V and then balking at the cost of a two or three paper bags a year. Regardless of how few infrequent the emptyings it is still a most disagreeable chore, by camparison, scooping a litter box is preferable becaue there is not a cloud of dust in one's face. What IS this obsession people have about not buying bags for a vacuum? What is the actual cost per year, $25.00 give or take? Fifty cents pwe WEEK? It's cheaper by far to use cloth diapers and wash them than it is to use disposable diapers, but I don't see people lining up for that. Compared to the other expeditures for paper goods in the average household, the expense of bags for the vaccum cleaner is so minute as to be hardly worth noticing. When our paper use is cut to the point to where the cost of vacuum bags is 15 to 20% of a households annual expenditure on paper products, then the discussion has some real merit.

Trebor wrote:
Trebor,

It's not obsession.  Money doesn't come easy and therefore it's a matter of economics.  We're certainly at a point here in the U.S. where what you don't have to continually pay for may begin to really mean something -- and soon. We have I don't know how many people out of work among  which many probably own vacuums.  I'm sure when they're out bags and mulling over whether to get more or gas up the car deciding is a no brainer.  If the first rule of business is, "Never pay any more than you just have to," then it should be the first rule for shopping. Even spendthrift me sees merit in anything that may save a dollar here or there for not only myself but every other everyday consumer.

When you start adding on all the other "extras" we're not talking about a little bit of money.

My sentiment also stems from the same reality as many face, namely dealing with an employer's reluctance to turn an open ear toward sound, justifiable reason to add a dollar more to your paycheck unless you literally pushed him up against a wall or present him with some incredible sob story.  His profit counts-- yours doesn't.  (However, this is the same guy who's always aware of, down to the penny, everything that he sees as due him.)  But that's neither here nor there . .  .

Perfectly good central vacs that will allow for less expenditure by way of consumables do exist and, they're the first I'd recommend.  Nonetheless, the "extra nice" is usually being sold right along side the basic and necessary so it's all up to the buyer, in the end result, to pick and choose as he sees fit. 

As for maintenance, if I'm at my leisure to dump the bin of a central vacuum merely two or three times a year as opposed after every use as with Rainbow, Dyson, etc., for me it's no big deal and actually a glimpse of heaven.  I used to be quite happy to run the bin on my FQ out to the trash can once a month. I also seem to have great lungs so far and have never been challenged by allergies of any major sort.  Thus, I'd easily suggest good bagless CV systems to anyone who had no respiratory challenges, whose neighbors are not likely to be disturbed by possible noise from an outside vent.  What I guess I'm saying is that I'm not afraid of a little work if the overall benefit is noticably greater.

There is no homogenized America.  Matter of fact, when I offered to give my neighbor a vacuum in perfectly good condition, she was so worried over her utility bill that she flatly refused. To my knowledge the cost of use for a vacuum in the course of a month is nothing. However if she feels her budget will be compromised, who am I to say she's wrong?  People with all sorts of budget levels make or set aside all sorts of purchases for all sorts of reasons.

I hope all of us who are looking to cut the fat in our personal lives will also share a little of what we've saved with some of the community organizations in our localities focused on people and families experiencing real hardship.

Venson

Venson,

I am still dumping my Rainbow D4 after almost 23 (1986) years. It really is true...wet dust cannot fly...and I do have allergies. Were I to switch to a bagged vac it would be a Nilfisk or a Miele. Having a decent vac is important to me. And yes, zero operating cost was certainly a factor in my decision to purchase the Rainbow. But, not only has it paid for itself in savings on bags, but in not needing replacement. No readily affordable bagless vacuums can come close, and a basic bagged vacuum such as a Eureka or Hoover, even with the cost of bags would prove to be less costly than a cheap bagless, again because it does not need to be replaced. There are 40 yr old Hoovers and Eurekas still running. A Dyson will not last long enough to justify its purchase in either savings category, it just won't. Bagless is fine for small handheld and stick vacs because the bags are so small that the replacement cost becomes prohibitive. Without exception, all 'true' cyclonic central vacs have a protective screen over the motor, and it must be kept clean or it voids the warranty. 'True' cyclonics also require outside venting. The MD motor sits below the conical shaped cloth bag with disposable paper bag inside. It is a highly functional, quiet, power sustaining design, which eliminates the need for outside venting. The bag change is simple and sanitary. The bag of a vacuum cleaner has been proved to contain and encourage the breeding of not only mites but life-thretening pathogens. The cost of bags for a year is less than the cost of even one office visit to your friendly neighborhood MD. It's all a matter of perspective.

Thanks Venson, Trebor.  Saves me oodles of time and effort.  Dear daughter's house is over 3000 sq feet not counting a two car garage.  Two level with cathedral ceilings.  The house was new and repoed by the bank after 4 months of being lived in.  Part of the economic sunami here in LV in 2007.  Daughter and family have owned since June 2007.  The original deposed owner/security supposed to guard such things absconded with everything that wasn't locked down, including the CVS which is mounted in the garage w/o an outside vent.  The original owner is a church member of my daughter and SIL tho a different church.  He was shocked to learn almost a year after move in that all the appliances in the house went south.  Hence, our firm belief that the security guards may have been the culprits.  As they were for other houses in the same neighborhood/zip code.

With sufficient portable vacuums available and a grand daughter who enjoys doing vacuum penance for bad deeds, my daughter is not pressing me on the issue of the CVS, which I volunteered to cover.  Still trying for a dual deal: S7 for me and a CVS for daughter's home. I figure if I bundle the S7 purchase with the CVS for my daughter, I stand a better chance with the War Department to secure an S7 for myself.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Best of luck Carmine.

Venson

Carmine,

If you get an S7 be prepared to push it yourself. While most people would not find it objectionally heavy, if your wife has been used to an 8 lb. Oreck I don't think she will transition easily to the S7. As to the matter of the CV, PLEASE, please, please do check the layount and the number of the inlets. Even if you have to call a professional installer to add more, it is worth it. You should never have to place the hose on top of furniture to reach anything, and now with the advent of the modular hose, you should be able to vacuum the major traffic areas with just a 20 ft. section, storing an extra 10 ft section up and down. In fact, I advocate complete separate tool kits/PN on each level, particularly if the carpet is very different. Central vac sare as much about convenience as cleaning power and filtration. If you are going to do it, go full tilt, even if your daughter says it is not necessary. She will thank you many times over after it is done, and all those little messes that are just a part of everyday life are gone in seconds. Do check out the VROOM. I'd do one in every closet and a base cabinet in every room, seriously.

Trebor

Thanks Venson and Trebor!

Carmine D.