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DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454


Original Message   Jun 28, 2008 12:41 am

Dyson is in the news frequently and so a dedicated thread.

.

This message was modified Aug 2, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



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CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894


Reply #338   Nov 7, 2008 8:27 am
HARDSELL wrote:

Such a wonderful rock.  No better place to live.  Have a good day.

Pax tecum.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 7, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454


Reply #339   Nov 8, 2008 7:23 am
CarmineD wrote:
Hello DIB/HS

Back at you my friends.  It is what it is.  Sooner or later you'll take off your dyson color glasses and accept reality.  Ball models and DC18 are dead/dying.  Niche vacuum seller if it survives the current economic sunami.  Lagging/lackluster sales for this year compared to last and beyond into the foreseeable future.  Forbes list of billionaires for 2008 and beyond...your [DIB] fave measurement of business success .....I wouldn't bet the dyson Engineering High School after this year and this year is still an uncertainty.   Even with dyson as the primary source of the Forbes information. 

DIB replies:   Sorry to disappoint, the DC18 according to Airblade was a big seller and so it is kept in the line but is now called the DC 25. Yes I know they're different machines but they do exactly the same thing in terms of function (with the exception of an additional 20 more air watts for the 25). To suggest otherwise would be an opinion and nothing more. And to suggest Dyson is not exposed like most during the economies troubles this to would be and opinion.

DIB:  When you upgrade your 3 year old DC15 ball model [you paid $300] with a new DC25, that you rave about so much, please let us know.  HS:  I've given up asking you when you will buy a new dyson.   There is a higher probably that I'll buy a second new dyson before you ever buy your very first.  And that I would bet the dyson Engineering High School on.  If in the highly unlikely case you were to buy a dyson before me, this is certainly the appropriate place to say.   It would be "NEWS."

DIB replies:   Purchasing a demo and then driving it into the ground in my home and in my garage proves the Dyson is bullet proof. And I will continue to drive into the ground until it fails.

Re: The success of the DC25...  I suggest you telephone Miele and Hoover Candy to answer your Dyson steerable contention.

Carmine D.




CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894


Reply #340   Nov 8, 2008 7:31 am
Hi DIB:

Glad to hear you found the perfect niche for a 3 year old, discountinued, discounted DC15 dyson ball: The garage.   I find irony in this.  Why?  Garages are for autos which share the quintessential feature that you like to talk up so much about all dyson ball models: Steerability! 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 8, 2008 by CarmineD
DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454


Reply #341   Nov 8, 2008 8:13 am
Hello DIB:

I believe Rainbow has been using a clear bin for a very long time - long before Dyson.  It is ridiculous to argue about a clear dirt container.  Clear containers have been used for food containers and other applications for years.  Who knows where James Dyson "stole" the idea for a clear container originated - it's irrelevant.  

DIB replies:   Instead of  "believing", why not belly up with some photos. I'm no collector but you are, as your buddies are too, it should be easy to locate this vacuum that predates Dyson's clear low efficiency cyclonic bin. To suggest food containers (or alike) could be a source that Dyson "stole" is lame. - This is an excuse to print "Dyson" and "stole" in the same line.  The only thing ridiculous is the amount of money Dyson made from being smart and smarter than every manufacturer on the planet when he included his clear low efficiency cyclonic bin. And it is ridiculously wild to see how widely and globally this bin was eventually adapted and now is a standard.  Globally, vacuum manufacturers are running Dyson-like bins and not running jam jars.

 Re: irrelevant. Carmen made a claim Dyson was a niche product and that he predicted it back in 2002. I expounded on the definition of niche. Carmen responded. And you say it's irrelevant. I guess we should all stop, go back, ponder and relive your boomerang Bissell stick post.  Certainly there is much revelant there and is more revelvant than talking of the global adoption of Dyson success.

James Dyson is trained as a graphics artist.  He accomplished 2 things - the no loss of suction dirt collection container, and he made a vacuum that has a unique trendy look.  His vacuums don't clean any better than other vacuums, because of design flaws unrelated to constant air flow.  When Dyson finds a cure for cancer, artificial limbs, an artificial heart/lungs, or cure for some other disease, perhaps the rest of us will hoist him up on your pedestal. 

DIB replies:   Look, many (not all) vacuum collectors typically get bent out of shape over Dyson's success. I say they're envious, what say you?

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

The first clear dirt bin I recall in the USA vacuum market goes to the EUREKA bagless Whirlwind.  I'm sure you'll say EUREKA copied dyson, which at the time was still a homegrown UK product.  Note now that EUREKA's latest Capture uprights use color tinted bins to accent the color schemes of the vacuums.  I like the latter better than the nasty clear bins.   Did dyson ever sue over the copying?




CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894


Reply #342   Nov 8, 2008 8:38 am
Hello DIB:

 You write: "Dyson was a niche product".   A Freudian slip/prophesy? 

Niche product is nice.  Not derogatory as you and some other dyson campers like to infer.  No umbrage should be taken.   Several successful and storied vacuum brands are niches:  Filter Queen, Rainbow, and Kirby just to mention a few.  Of course, unlike your brand, these brands have been in business for many years and have weathered good and bad economic times and still.   At least so far.  A prerequisite for rightfully and correctly claiming success.  But things change as we witnessed with several of the financial icons on Wall Street.  Still as you, I would presume, would not want to be counted out/laid to rest while still having a pulse and heart beat, even if ever so faint/shallow, so it is true too, I believe, with your fave brand. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Nov 8, 2008 by CarmineD
M00seUK


Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Points: 295


Reply #343   Nov 9, 2008 8:11 am
There's been a recent Dyson patent filing detailing a drinks vending machine for domestic use, following up a previous filing by the company in this area.

http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?KC=A&date=20081105&NR=2448934A&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_GB&CC=GB&FT=D

This details a product with a smaller profile, reduced manufacturing costs and low maintenance. It would seem almost certain this would involve a digital motor along the way.

I'd say there's a high probability of this product reaching market in the next 12 months. The technical illustrations for the patents show production quality parts - not simply theory on how they might do something.

I've noticed a steady increase of this type of appliance in people's homes over the last 5 years. I've considered it myself, but have been put off by perceived cost, energy and space considerations - so certainly, there's room for improvements.

DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454


Reply #344   Nov 9, 2008 10:02 am
M00seUK wrote:
There's been a recent Dyson patent filing detailing a drinks vending machine for domestic use, following up a previous filing by the company in this area.

http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?KC=A&date=20081105&NR=2448934A&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_GB&CC=GB&FT=D

This details a product with a smaller profile, reduced manufacturing costs and low maintenance. It would seem almost certain this would involve a digital motor along the way.

I'd say there's a high probability of this product reaching market in the next 12 months. The technical illustrations for the patents show production quality parts - not simply theory on how they might do something.

I've noticed a steady increase of this type of appliance in people's homes over the last 5 years. I've considered it myself, but have been put off by perceived cost, energy and space considerations - so certainly, there's room for improvements.


Moose,
There is much more detail on the US patent application. You might want to check it out. One would imagine Dyson applying his small motor technology (the DDM) in appliances to reduce the size or use its speed gains (typically), but I do not see the DDM and controller with its higher costs inside this box. Dyson also mentions keeping costs down on this appliance.

I am not familiar with these dispensers. Can you link a couple to this thread so I can take a look?

 Thanks,
 DIB

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=dyson.AS.&OS=an/dyson&RS=AN/dyson
This message was modified Nov 9, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454


Reply #345   Nov 9, 2008 10:36 am
CarmineD wrote:
Hi DIB:

Glad to hear you found the perfect niche for a 3 year old, discountinued, discounted DC15 dyson ball: The garage.   I find irony in this.  Why?  Garages are for autos which share the quintessential feature that you like to talk up so much about all dyson ball models: Steerability! 

Carmine D.


  Hello Carmine,

 In typical fashion you twist my words. Did I say my DC15 has been relegated to the garage? The DC15 serves double duty both in my garage and home. I am beating on it deliberately. This way I can say honestly these things are bulletproof and can run well past its five-year warranty (projectied based on what I've seen thus far). It is going on 4 years old.

DIB


M00seUK


Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Points: 295


Reply #346   Nov 9, 2008 11:41 am
DysonInventsBig wrote:
Moose,
There is much more detail on the US patent application. You might want to check it out. One would imagine Dyson applying his small motor technology (the DDM) in appliances to reduce the size or use its speed gains (typically), but I do not see the DDM and controller with its higher costs inside this box. Dyson also mentions keeping costs down on this appliance.

I am not familiar with these dispensers. Can you link a couple to this thread so I can take a look?

 Thanks,
 DIB

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=dyson.AS.&OS=an/dyson&RS=AN/dyson

Thanks - I can't see any more written detail on the US patent doc and the images are not showing for me, so I can't really add anything.

I'm of the presumption that Dyson are of the thinking "What appliances use motors that might benefit a more efficient motor part?". I'm not at all familiar with drinks dispensers, but presumably you need a motor to create air pressure and also grind / mix ingredients. If a Dyson digital motor *was* to be used, it would like be a smaller than the version used on the Airblade drier. As you say, there might not be any benefit at all and they would simply use one off the shelf.

So, what we're looking at is :-

  • Small, self-contained profile
  • Grinder / milk foamier optional
  • 1-2 selectable hoppers for coffee / coco ingredients
  • Nozzle and cup shelf retract flush when not required

This is the type of product I'm thinking of:-

http://www.comet.co.uk/shopcomet/product/290734/JURA-IMPRESSA-Z5

That is the top of the range model from this retailer, at 1595 GBP. An entry level version sells for 595 GBP.

Certainly, they're getting ever popular, the margins are there and there's efficiencies to be made in terms of size.

There's also market share potential in the commercial space. The café near my office is pushed for working space, with fair-sized espresso machine taking up room. At my local independent pub, coffee is made from a small machine with pre-prepared espresso 'capsules'. Again, they're pushed for space, but a machine of the design proposed by Dyson might work well.

Venson


Joined: Jul 23, 2007
Points: 1900


Reply #347   Nov 9, 2008 11:56 am
Hi,

Miele and, I believe, Bosch have it on the market in "capsule" and built-in form. However, the prices make my good old Krups bean grinder and Bodum coffee maker look awful good to me

http://www.miele.com/products/models.asp?cat=5&subcat=30&menu_id=22&nav=20&snav=90&tnav=96&oT=188

http://www.miele.com/products/models.asp?cat=5&subcat=28&menu_id=9&nav=20&snav=90&tnav=93&oT=187

Venson
This message was modified Nov 9, 2008 by Venson
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