Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Hello all!

As you can tell I am new to the forum.. I came across the site while doing a search for an Oreck XL to a Simplicity freedom comparison (oddly it took me to the Oreck/Dyson flame posts from January). I have worked in the hotel industry for a while, and have been around the Orecks and other light-weight hoovers/sanitaires. I have always been a gadget guy, and vacuums are gadgets for the home. Right now, I have a Simplicity 6 series, a Filter Queen princess with power head and a Kirby G3. I plan on getting another Simplicity or Riccar for my self, and am trying to figure out something for my mother.

The other day she told me that she was having a hard time lifting the Simplicty. She has been having back problems for a while now, but this year they managed to get worse. She also uses the Kirby, but after I brought her the Simplicity, she doesn't haul it up a flight of stairs any more. The simplicity was the upstairs vacuum and the Kirby remains the high traffic cleaner for the lower level. I got to thinking, and I realized that the hotel I am at was wanting to get rid of their Oreck XL2000RHB. The housekeepers don't like it because it is loud, and I agree, it is a very noisy machine. I disassembled it, and found that someone decided to clean up the plaster/paint when the lobby was remodeled... I cleaned everything out and brought it home to my mom. I got to looking, and was hoping I can get some pointers to steer her in the right direction. As of right now, We are going to get an Oreck, either the commercial one from the hotel or a _NEW_ one from a home center if I can indeed find one for 150 bucks.

What I am wanting to know is are the non commercial ones quieter? Also, do they make a stiffer brush roll for the Oreck? I called one of the Oreck Showrooms and they said they have a basic XL2000 stick handle for 199... I am wondering if that would be a better choice than my commercial one. The only issue is the 'D' or helping hand handle is something I am _not_ willing to compromise on. Does anyone have any idea how Oreck deadens the sound? I am wondering if I could stick a sheet of dynomat in the housing to quite this thing down. My 6 series sounds like a whisper compared to this Red Monster.

Now, down the road (before the end of the year) I am going to buy a Simplicity freedom. I am thinking the 3500, non commercial version. I have always liked commercial vacs because of the longer cords, but I take a hit in the warranty. I also know that the commercial has more aluminum and the consumer has more steel.. Is the commercial really that much lighter? What do you guys think? I know the Simplicity has a stronger motor and stiffer bristles, but does it do any better on carpets, and how does it handle throw rugs? The simplicity will be mom's house warming gift when she moves again. The Oreck will stay with me, I have a few places I can use it...

Oh, and the other simplicity that I am thinking of buying my self is the Synergy. I fell in love with it when I first saw it on the internet, and the dealer I dealt with ordered one just for me to demo in the store, but I decided to go with the cheaper 6 series at that time. He said he was glad he ordered it because he hadn't had any and wanted to play with it. He sold that one and had three ordered for a few other customers before we left the store that day.

Hi jkbmmv,

If it's any help, I took a quick look at CR online which rated the very similar Riccar Supralite RSL3 and listed the Freedom 3500 as comparable.  The cleaner got high marks for carpet cleaning ability from CR and user reviews (total of three) were all highly favorable.  It also ranked as excellent regarding emissions.  However, user opinion concurred with CR's rating of "fair" regarding its noise level.  Though it was not scored in the ratings, CR provided user reviews for the Freedom 3500 and four of four sumbitted were very happy campers.  Users deemed Riccar/Simplicity lightweights to have more suction than Oreck.

The Simplicity Freedom 3600, next model up, does have two speeds which might help reduce the noise issue.  If there's not a lot of traffic in her home, your mom probably needn't worry about running the machine at top power during every use anyway. One off these and a inexpensive lightweight canister for above the floor tasks might be quite suitable for her.

The only thing I don't like is the price.  The Riccar costs about $350 -- a little expensive I feel.  Maybe yo can wheel and deal a better price at a local vac shop or find one on eBay from a legitimate vendor.

The two Oreck models rated as one "good" and the other "fair" regarding noise.  That said, I have yet to hear of any of the lightweight uprights being super quiet but the issue of sound can often be subjective.  What I find tolerable may or may not be pleasing to you.  I strongly suggest going to see -- and hear -- the machines you're interested in. 

Good luck, 

Venson

Hrm this forum's options seem to be a bit bulk and hard to use for a newbie...

Anywho, Venson, I appreciate the reply and the research. I am not sure what my mother is planning on doing for above floor cleaning. She has never been one to grab a vacuum, attach the hose, and then go up and down the walls. Instead, she is more of a "Bring me the ladder, a bucket and some bleach!" type person. The kind that wipes and soaks anything and everything. She is all over the place, climbing on things just to clean stuff. Everything that she touches has her 'sparkle' on it. Obsessive compulsive, maybe, but will she change, probably not. That is why I am so shocked with her decision to get a light vacuum cleaner. I understand, and oddly enough, I enjoy the fact that the Oreck is a bit taller than my 6. But regardless of weight, I feel that my 6 is easier to push while running, and is a lot quieter.

I did not realize the other options available for the freedom. I was simply going off of the two I was presented with; the 3500 and the 3500 commercial. I think the two speed motor would be a better choice, just in case the suction is a bit much for some of the throw rugs she uses. For the time being, we are living in a two upper level and a basement duplex. I know she wants to move into a single level home with or with-out a basement. She will still have her Kirby, and the chosen Simplicity will be there awaiting her arrival. The Oreck will stay with me, mainly for the fact that I know she isn’t going to vacuum every day, and I just feel the Oreck won’t be a long term solution for her. Besides, I like Simplicity’s warranties; the Oreck has none.

Oddly enough, today, I went in to a local shop and got two belts for the Oreck. The gentleman also sold Riccar vacuums. I asked him what he thought would be the better option, and right off the bat, he said the Riccar. The only problem with that is he said the Simplicity’s are not a viable option, because they are not of the great quality the Riccar is. He was explaining a parent company that has tiered levels et cetera. I understand the different name plates, but regardless of that fact, Riccar, Simplicity and Carpet Pro vacuums are all from the same design. Different models have different build qualities and material qualities. I get it, but I really do not understand how someone selling one brand can “bash” the quality of a sister brand. I guess when I go into these independent dealers I am expecting to get an un-biased opinion from them. Of the few I have dealt with in the local Kansas City metro, Mar-Beck is the only one that has really laid things out for me, and let me decide what I thought was best for me. I think it is because they sell anything and everything, new Tacony co. products and used well-known names. They even have a Dyson or two.

I guess my main concern with the Oreck is if I am going to use it, I want it to meet or exceed my expectations. All of the hype I see/hear about Oreck makes me think it is this miracle vacuum that will do anything except wash dishes. Using one isn’t giving me that impression, but it also isn’t giving me a bad impression. For 100 dollars, I feel it is a good purchase for something that will be used as a companion for my 6 or the Synergy/Radiance when I decide to make that purchase. Now, I realize that that statement may seem a bit selfish, considering that this was a purchase for my mother, but I feel it is justified by the fact that I am purchasing her a new Freedom!

On a side note, anyone that has a home-use Oreck and a commercial-use Oreck (preferably XL2000s) want to do a side-by-side run and see which is louder then inspect the housing to see if there are any differences, weather it is thicker plastic, or some form of a deadening material want to post results, I would greatly appreciate that.The

One thing I did forget to mention in that lengthy post of mine was that I had found an old Windsor Sensor XP-12 laying behind a dryer that might accompany the Oreck when I purchase it. Ever since I was a kid, I have always enjoyed taking things apart and tinkering with things. My mom hated her Kirby accessory bin because I would always get into it and take off with her brushes and foam shooter and other random things I would find in it. If all goes as planned, I will have more vacuums than rooms.

Hello Venson:

On the topic of Consumer Reports and its latest ratings of the ORECK brand and models.  The ORECK XL 21 Titanium has a revamped ORECK motor which is stronger while more energy efficient [read amperage] than the other ORECK upright motors.  Hence, the better rating for noise IMHO.  It is the only model with the latest and greatest motor.

BTW, the Titanium comes with a 21 year warranty on everything and a $735 price tag.  Some have pointed out that belts are not covered under warranty.  While technically true, the model comes with 10 free annual services which include among other things replacing the belt and bag and bulb.  If a customer goes every 2 years for the vacuum services, will ORECK deny the free services over the 21 years?  Probably not, but a possibility. 

I'm told by ORECK insiders that the new ORECK Titanium motors will easily last 20 years.  If a motor goes, it will be after 10 years and they should be few and far between.  Time will tell.  In 20 years, I'll come back here and evaluate the motor results.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
If you haven't already, check out the new Oreck website.  New look and new models.  It looks like the Titanium and it's 25 year warranty have been removed from the line (at least as far as I can see). While the 10 year warranty still exists it's not just belts that are not covered.  Brushrolls are only one year and the usual wear items like carbon brushes, bulbs, edge brushes etc are not covered at all.  Just because the warranty is long does not mean you won't be paying for repairs during the "free" service.

Dusty

dusty wrote:

$735 for a vacuum that should sell for $60.  10 free tune ups ( bag and belt) no need for 10 bulbs.  That is approximately $67.50 per year foe maintenance.  Factor in the gas for two trips to Oreck (take and return vacuum).  My bet is that if used regularly you will need a half dozen belts annually.  Also consider that they have inferior cleaning ability.  What is to like except light weight?

Don't forget you also have to have the accessory vac which requires bags.

dusty wrote:

Hello Dusty:

I saw the ads with Dave and the new ORECK-s recently.  Will look at the new Web Site.  Thanks for the info. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Titanium is no longer offered.  I suspect US economics is at work.  With one thing after another tanking day after day and a crisis of confidence by Americans in the government and its leaders, $735 vacuums are A HARDSELL!

However, I have to think, until I know for sure otherwise, that the new more powerful and energy efficient ORECK motor is still part of the line up in one or more of the products.

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

There is also a lack of confidence by Americans who learn the hard way that $735 for an Oreck is a RIP OFF by an AMERICAN vacuum manufacturer.

Hi,

The new top-of-the-line is the Platinum which is being advertised in my area for the last few weeks. 

http://www.tryoreck.com/

http://www.oreck.com/oreck-xl-upright/index.cfm

Venson

Hello Venson:

I suspect the Platinum has the same motor as the Titanium did.  But I will verify.  I noticed the price has increased to $799 for the MSRP.  On a comforting note, with the ORECK warranty now set at 10 years [still the highest in the industry for vacuums] I won't need to come back here in 20 years to report on the result of the Titanium's motor longevity!  

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

I have to disagree.  While I would not recommend the ORECK Titanium and now Platinum to everyone, with the 21 year warranty, the vacuum averages out to be a $35 per year vacuum cleaner.  With 10 years for a warranty, it comes to $79.  Both IMHO are better financial investments for a vacuum cleaner than any of the toxic bank assets and NYSE deflated stocks right now! 

I suspect with all the asset values of the USA buinesses tanking over the last week, it's only natural for ORECK to reevaluate its position too and adjust to the changing times.  Reducing the warranty period [asset] from 21 to 10 years is on par for the current economic course!   As Albert S. Einstein would say:  It's the theory of relativity at work in the market place.  DIB for your benefit, so you don't need to ask, that's science not hyperbole.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Thanks Carmine.  From the gist of the video, plus the addition of the two-speed switch, I assumed a step up in power had made.   By the way, ten years may not tell the whole story.  Stick around and check out Oreck in another twenty years -- just ot be sure.

Best,

Venson

CarmineD wrote:

Other than the housing what elwe is covered for 10 years.  Seems as if the warranty is no better than any other.  Try to convince a warranty center that a motor fails after 19 years due to a defect. 

Only 1 year on roller brush.  That is fummy, unless they screw you after 1 year.

CarmineD wrote:

Stocks bounce back.  The value of a used Oreck will always decline.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

With a 30 day free home no obligation trial, ORECK is not a rip off. 

Sure, retailers take back vacuums with their credit/refund policies.  Have you tried lately?  Customers have to go through hoops and loops to meet the stores' refund and return policies, especially on vacuums.  Some won't and don't.  That is the real rip off and impugns buyers' confidence.  Dealing directly with ORECK, the maker and manufacturer of the USA made product, with no questions asked for returns and credits, builds buyers' confidence in its products. 

Stocks bounce back?  Really?  The stock value declines of the Great Depression from 1929 until 1932 [in reality until 1939 when FDR declared war on Germany and the 10 million hardcore unemployed men were conscripted into the military services] didn't return to their pre-depression values until the mid to late 1950's.  Over 25 years in most cases.  Yes, in the long run stocks bounce back.  But in the long run, everyone dies. 

Stocks don't come with a 10 year warranty.  ORECK-s do!   

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

My ORECK-s brush roll is over one year old [seventeen months exactly] and still looks and works like brand new.  I vacuum every day with the ORECK: all my rugs and floors.  Weekly, I even ORECK my backyard concrete patio, cement garage floor, and the cement walkway leading up to the front door of my home.  Even the apron leading to the garage door!  Leaves, pebbles, sand, dead insects. ORECK vacuums it up. 

Why?  The ORECK brush roll meets and exceeds industry standards.  One high priced vacuum maker that has been trying for over 26 years still hasn't gotten it right.  Is that funny, sad, or a rip off for a $400 plus vacuum?  Hope you're not waiting for the company to bounce back.  It has been a long time coming.

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson:

That's an offer I can't and won't refuse!  20 years I'll be back to report.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

That's a big deal for ORECK and and all vacuums because it builds product confidence among buyers.  Why?  Plastic built vacuums are the Achilles' heel of the USA vacuum industry and the reason for disposable vacuums.  Not many vacuum brands, save ORECK, warranty their housings for 10 years.  Even vacuums costing as much if not more than ORECK-s Classic XL for $299.  Here's the reason!  ORECK-s always bounce back despite their misuse and abuse.  For over 45 years now both in US households and the US hotel industry.  So, the ORECK housings have to be covered by the warranty!

Here's the ORECK warranty excerpt that applies:

"The Oreck XL^® Classic Vacuum comes with a 3-year, worry-free motor warranty and a full 10-year housing warranty. Oreck will repair or replace, free of charge, to the original purchaser, any part which is found to be defective in material or workmanship within three years of the date of purchase; ten years on housing. This limited warranty applies to normal domestic use. Oreck's limited warranty is valid only if you retain proof of purchase from Oreck or an Oreck Authorized Retail Dealer for this product. "

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
This really isn't that different from any warranty.  The chance of a housing breaking due to a defect in material is pretty much nil.  The chance of a housing breaking from being jammed under beds and tables or perhaps a roller bearing and cap melting down is far greater.  Neither would be a warranty issue and would require payment.

Dusty

dusty wrote:

Hello Dusty:

The big difference is that ORECK puts the housing warranty in writing [for 10 years].   

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:

Another Oreck rip off.  As dusty said, there is no reason for the housing to fail due to a defect.  If it does it should be replaced if no warranty covered it.  Oreck should give a 10 year free vacuum replacement on a $50 vacuum that sells for $800.

If Oreck wants to offer a warranty of value they should offer a 10 year replacement of belts which are known to consistantly fail.  If I recall you stated that the belts are as prone to failure from sitting idle as they are with regular use.  That is what I call planned failure and added income for Oreck). How about 10 years on the brush roll or some part that will likely fail,  The disclamers in the limited warranty certainly favor Oreck, Only covers normal domestic use.  Who defines normal.  Warranty only covers defects.  How many vacuum parts actually failure due to defects?  An electric motor that runs for 5 years and fails is not likely defective.  It is either repairable or has been terribly abused. 

Ol Dave sure knows how to stab the old and feeble in the back and smile all the time.  Funny thing is that you and so many others bleed for him.

I have to wonder why you never mentioned Oreck when you were so pro hoover. 

CarmineD wrote:
They (or any other manufacturer) could put it in writing for 20 years. Fact is, the odds of having to replace a housing due to defect is slim and none. If the housing breaks due to use or a roller melting down you can be sure that you'll be charged for the repair.

Dusty

Hello Dusty:

Am I disagreeing with you?  Arguing with you?  No, not at all.  Here is my point about the ORECK warranty and vacuum warranties in general for that matter.  How many of today's new vacuums for $299 are expected by buying consumers to last 10 years?  The ORECK warranty on the housing gives vacuum consumers a perception that ORECK vacuums will last 10 years.  Guaranteed in writing.  Perception is reality [i.e the stock markets' performance over recent days].   The Achilles' heel of the vacuum industry today is disposable plastic vacuums.  It gives the vacuum industry a bad rap and rep and has for many years now.  ORECK's warranty restores consumer confidence in vacuums.  It works for Dave and ORECK buyers IMHO

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS:

I thought you would never ask!  I bought the ORECK in April 2007 for three main reasons:  First, because my dear Wife had always wanted one.  Second, because you tried one free, didn't like it, returned it under the no obligation free refund policy and criticize ORECK incessantly.  Finally, it was a special offer for the XL Classic through the Humane Society of the US for $150 without the giveaways, which I didn't want.  Thank you for providing part of the impetus for my ORECK purchase. In fact 4 ORECKS to be exact.  After using and liking, I bought and gifted 3 away to my family members.  They love their ORECK's.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Thanks for clarifying your thoughts..I had misinturpreted them. I agree perception is everything and the 10 year warranty makes things look rosier than they are. Same goes for Dysons 5 years and Riccars 6 years etc.  The drawback to this warranty is if something does go wrong and it's not a manufacturerer defect the majority of customers immediately think the company doesn't stand behind it's product.  The longer the "limited" warranty the more chance you have of losing that customer simply because they don't understand what they are buying in to.

Dusty

Hi Dusty,

It is a behavioral problem...  People feeling entitled are the biggest problem and not reputable manufacturers and there limited warranties.  Buyer beware (take 5 minutes of ones day and read the contract that came with the product).  Those who feel entitled, also play stupid and play “the blame game ... the mfg or retailer owes me because I am not going to take responsibility for myself.  Purchasers of product have 30 days (typically) to read and learn of a products limitations and they miss this opportunity too, and of course the internet and all the information that can be obtained there as well.  There are no good excuses anymore.  Surely the responsible are hurt due the bad behavior of others.        DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:
Agreed 100%.  Except for the part about no good excuses...there are great excuses, it's just that none of them make any sense :-)

Dusty

dusty wrote:
Funny. Although being the son of a restauranteur (20 yrs. in business x 3 restaurants) you can imagine the volume of people served and the volume of lame excuses (including lawsuits). The humor vaporized as the financial costs began to rise. DIB:

So... Any ideas on making the commercial red XL2000 RHB more quiet? If I think about it when I go to either Wal-Mart or something I'll check for the audio department's sound dampening material...

jkbmmv wrote:

Simply push it around the room without plugging it in.  It should remove about the same amount of dirt as when pluged in.

HARDSELL wrote:

HS/Joshua:

That beats my idea: Ear plugs!  Not to make light of the poster's dilemma, I suggest you contact ORECK, if you haven't already, and ask.  They may have some ideas.

Carmine D.

HARDSELL wrote:

Let the housecleaner use it"""""",just leave the house and do something you really like to do,problem solved....

MOLE

jkbmmv wrote:
Out of curiosity, when you cleaned the machine did you notice any nicks or even blades broken on the motor fan?  It sounds to me like your Oreck is running out of balance because they are usually a reasonably quiet machine...quieter than the Simplicity that you are looking at buying later in the year.

Dusty

To be honest, every vacuum place that I have asked said that the commercial Orecks run louder than the non commercial models... The Oreck home center said that as well (after trying to sell me an 800 dollar upright). I am just assuming that the housing is different, and am looking for ideas for making it quieter... My plan is to use that audio matting stuff (dynomat) if I can find it. I used to run in to it everywhere, now I don't see it... I will probably put a layer on the inside top part of the housing, and a few sections on the top of the bottom plate as well... That should help with the noise.

The fan blades seemed to be alright when I cleaned everything out, and the metal fins on the motor weren't bent. It makes sense that the commercial versions wouldn't be the same as the home towards quality of plastics etc. And to be honest, I have used other commercial Orecks before, and they seem to be just as loud.

jkbmmv wrote:

Hello Joshua:

If you haven't already, replace the belt.  A loose/stretched ORECK belt may cause the brush roll to vibrate, skip over the rug and be noisier than normal.  A new belt prevents this by tightening the brush roll. 

Carmine D. 

The belt is brand new, I took everything apart and cleaned the plastic stuff with soap and hot water, and a tooth brush, there is nothing built up anywhere. I even used a bottle brush on the neck/tube. I let everything dry and re-assembled. Its amazing how simple a flow through vacuum is... Especially after you see the price tag some of them carry.

To go on the obvious bag-less/bagged tension in here, I must say I don't think I well ever use a bag-less upright ever again. I had always wanted one of those Fantom vacuums you used to see on TV all the time... Finally one day, I had a chance to use one. It belonged to a friends mother. I was helping a few friends move, and I pulled out the vacuum and cleaned with it... It did good for a while, but I don't know what happened... I clogged that thing so bad, I just wrapped everything up and took it back to her. She told me as she put it on her work bench "Yea, it does this all the time, but for what I paid for it, I am going to use it until it breaks!". I don't think a vacuum is worth all that trouble... Not if its a weekly/biweekly ordeal.

jkbmmv wrote:

The genius, if you will, of the 8 pound ORECK, beside its weight, is that there are so few parts to it.  Less than 30 in all.  Less parts to break so they will and do last longer.

Carmine D.

jkbmmv wrote:

The bagless full size vacuum is the latest fad in the vacuum industry.  But it is a fad that is dying as quickly as it started.  Why? Because people are learning they have to get up close and personal with the dirt daily if they vacuum that much.  And dumping and cleaning dirt bins that often is no fun.  People know it's worth the cost of the bags from a time and effort point of view.  Just as importantly, from a health perspective they don't want to have all of the dust mites they pick up re-exposed back into the air they breathe every time they dump a dirt bin.   Getting back to ORECK, it is HEPA rated and doesn't have/need any HEPA filters [that every 2-3-4 months have to removed, cleaned, washed, dried and reinstalled/replaced].

Sticks and hand held vacuums, bagless may be fine.  Full size vacuums?  Bagged over bagless every time.  Possible exception for commercial usage where bag costs may be a constraint for the budget conscious.

Carmine D.

Also when the Oreck motors get old and loose they vibrate more and are louder, also the fan may have a crack that is not visible as they are not loud, the commercial has the same motor. We sell few Orecks as we sell mostly Riccar supralites (same as Simplicity) now they are louder but twice the power