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epremack


Joined: Feb 24, 2011
Points: 8

Husqvarna Track Drive Snowblower--How Good?
Original Message   Aug 26, 2011 11:19 am
I've been planning to buy a Honda snowblower this fall from my local dealer.  Had my eyes on the 928TA model which I've used in the past and have found quite good. 

He said he's going to start carrying Husqvarna too, noting that its 1830EXLT model has track drive, hydrostatic transmission, and an 18 lb-ft motor (Snow King), and is a lot cheaper than the Honda. 

He also noted that Honda has upgraded the motor for its 30-inch blower to its GX 390, but tells me this one is much harder to handle than the 928.

Anyone familiar with this Husky or the upgraded Honda? 

I need to be able to reliably blow out a steep, 100-foot drive.  Where I live, we measure our wet,  heavy snow ("Sierra Cement") by the foot, not the inch.
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royster


" It is the use of power tools that separates man from animals"

Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Joined: Feb 11, 2011
Points: 284

Re: Husqvarna Track Drive Snowblower--How Good?
Reply #11   Apr 11, 2012 4:01 pm
Snowmann wrote:

Borat is correct.

 

Borat did not say that HUsqvarna  was the parent company    , I said that....................

Borat said that Husqvarna was a gussied up Craftsman.

This message was modified Apr 11, 2012 by royster


aa335


Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434

Re: Husqvarna Track Drive Snowblower--How Good?
Reply #12   Apr 11, 2012 7:58 pm
Snowmann wrote:

Another comparable option to the Honda and Husqvarna would be the Ariens model 926056. It's a 28" Hydro Pro Track Sno-Thro. This model includes a Briggs & Stratton commercial grade engine (Polar Force Pro, 21.0 ft-bs torque with a 2nd order high speed balance shaft) and an infinitely variable actively cooled hydrostatic drive (it's able to sustain higher axle torques and operate in higher ambient temperatures than a Honda). The integrated cooling system is comprised of 3 passive (2 on a wheel drive model) and 3 active elements to significantly reduce operating temperatures (heat is the ultimate demise of a hydrostatic drive). This transmission was jointly developed by Ariens and Hydro-Gear specifically for the Ariens Hydro Pro Sno-Thro and is synthetic oil equipped. This model also has the standard Ariens Pro Sno-Thro features: differential equipped, commercial grade skid shoes (1/2" thick) and boron steel scraper blade, water/contaminant resistant impeller bearing, sealed ball bearing axles, dual belt auger drive, cast iron auger gearcase with 5 year commercial warranty, 16" augers/14" high speed impeller, hand warmers, etc... Suggested promo selling price is $3099.


Where is the info for this mystical unicorn on Arien's website?  Anyways this model does sound interesting.  Is there a problem with Honda hydrostatic?  Claiming the Ariens to be able to operate in higher ambient temperature is as useful as having a Ariens lawnmower operate in freezing temperatures. 

So the new machine has two natural convection and forced convection cooling to be super cooled in freezing ambient temperature, so excess is good?  Or specmanship is the new marketing tool these days? How about individual hydrostatic motor for each side of the wheel to make turning easier?  The new Ariens machine is interesting for a domestic product, but it seems pale compared to Yamaha and Honda new hybrid machines.  Is the emperor really has new clothes or does an mid 80s Chevy Celebrity with a red Eurosport badge ready to take on a BMW 5 series?
This message was modified Apr 11, 2012 by aa335
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Husqvarna Track Drive Snowblower--How Good?
Reply #13   Apr 13, 2012 7:37 pm
royster wrote:
 

Borat did not say that HUsqvarna  was the parent company    , I said that....................

Borat said that Husqvarna was a gussied up Craftsman.


Point of the matter is that Husqvarna bought AYP which had been making snow blowers under numerous brand names (including Craftsman) for decades.  Husqvarna didn't bring anything to the technology nor manufacturing table.   They bought a domestic manufacturer and slapped their brand on it.  Don't see how that could elevate the quality of the AYP manufacturing process. 

As Snowmann says, don't confuse Husqvarna snow blowers, riding mowers or lawn mowers with their line of other products such a chainsaws, trimmers, motorcycles etc.  They're not in the same class. 

By the way, the Husqvarna motorcycles aren't  Husqvarna either.  They're actually made in Italy by Cagiva and have very little if anything to do with the highly desirable Husky's of old.    
Snowmann


Joined: Dec 3, 2003
Points: 494

Re: Husqvarna Track Drive Snowblower--How Good?
Reply #14   Aug 23, 2012 10:42 pm
aa335 wrote:
Where is the info for this mystical unicorn on Arien's website?  Anyways this model does sound interesting.  Is there a problem with Honda hydrostatic?  Claiming the Ariens to be able to operate in higher ambient temperature is as useful as having a Ariens lawnmower operate in freezing temperatures. 

So the new machine has two natural convection and forced convection cooling to be super cooled in freezing ambient temperature, so excess is good?  Or specmanship is the new marketing tool these days? How about individual hydrostatic motor for each side of the wheel to make turning easier?  The new Ariens machine is interesting for a domestic product, but it seems pale compared to Yamaha and Honda new hybrid machines.  Is the emperor really has new clothes or does an mid 80s Chevy Celebrity with a red Eurosport badge ready to take on a BMW 5 series?



This model (and others) are now on the Ariens website. Note there are wheel drive and track drive models.

Regarding your comment about temperature; even in a cold ambient environment hydrostatic transmissions can run very hot. They are well under 50% efficient (as low as 25-30% for certain models). The smaller hydrostatic transmissions can emit more the 1000W in heat. The small surface area of the pump housings have a hard time purging the heat. The Honda (928TAS in particular) has a loaded hydrostatic oil temperature of around 200 degrees F (in a +32F ambient temperature). That is approximately 25 degrees below the temperature at which petrolium oil starts to break down and deteriorate. Honda uses conventional petrolium oil for this application. The Ariens (equivalent Hydro Pro 28 Track) loaded hydrostatic oil temperature runs ~50F cooler and uses synthetic oil which will reliably operate in conditions over 50F higher than petrolium oil. This is why there is a service schedule for the hydrostatic oil in the Honda and not the Ariens. All said, the Ariens can take more drive load at higher ambient temperatures without risk to the longevity of the drive.

This message was modified Aug 24, 2012 by Snowmann
FrankMA


Location: Merrimack Valley/Northeastern Mass
Joined: Jul 1, 2010
Points: 587

Re: Husqvarna Track Drive Snowblower--How Good?
Reply #15   Aug 24, 2012 8:15 am
Snowmann wrote:
This model (and others) are now on the Ariens website. Note there are wheel drive and track drive models.

Regarding your comment about temperature; even in a cold ambient environment hydrostatic transmissions can run very hot. They are well under 50% efficient (as low as 25-30% for certain models). The smaller hydrostatic transmissions can emit more the 1000W in heat. The small surface area of the pump housings have a hard time purging the heat. The Honda (928TAS in particular) has a loaded hydrostatic oil temperature of around 200 degrees F (in a +32F ambient temperature). That is approximately 25 degrees below the temperature at which petrolium oil starts to break down and deteriorate. Honda uses conventional petrolium oil for this application. The Ariens (equivalent Hydro Pro 28 Track) loaded hydrostatic oil temperature runs ~50F cooler and uses synthetic oil which will reliably operate in conditions over 50F higher than petrolium oil. This is why there is a service schedule for the hydrostatic oil in the Honda and not the Ariens. All said, the Ariens can take more drive load at higher ambient temperatures without risk to the longevity of the drive.



I have owned 2 Honda snowblowers (currently a HS928TA) and there is no service schedule for the hydrostatic oil. The Honda owner's manual simply instructs you to check the fluid to make sure it's full and how to add fluid if needed. I was somewhat surprised by this and went to 2 local Honda service centers and asked their service department about servicing the hydro unit. I was told there is no service schedule and that unless there is a problem, don't mess with it. I went 10 years (hard New England winters) with my old HS624WA and never had any issues, never even had to add any fluid for that matter. I still have the same unopened Honda Hydro Oil bottle that I bought after I got my HS624WA..

Toro Wheel Horse 522xi GT, Honda HS928TA, Honda HS621AS, Honda HS520A, Toro CCR3000 (work in progress), Honda HS624WA (sold 08/23/2010), Stihl BR550 Backpack Blower, Stihl MS250, McCulloch MS1635, Honda EM6500SX Generator
Snowmann


Joined: Dec 3, 2003
Points: 494

Re: Husqvarna Track Drive Snowblower--How Good?
Reply #16   Aug 24, 2012 10:15 pm
FrankMA wrote:
I have owned 2 Honda snowblowers (currently a HS928TA) and there is no service schedule for the hydrostatic oil. The Honda owner's manual simply instructs you to check the fluid to make sure it's full and how to add fluid if needed. I was somewhat surprised by this and went to 2 local Honda service centers and asked their service department about servicing the hydro unit. I was told there is no service schedule and that unless there is a problem, don't mess with it. I went 10 years (hard New England winters) with my old HS624WA and never had any issues, never even had to add any fluid for that matter. I still have the same unopened Honda Hydro Oil bottle that I bought after I got my HS624WA..



http://m.powerequipment.honda.com/pdf/manuals/00X317677230.pdf

There are 2 sections that refer to it in this manual. There would be no reason to offer Honda branded hydrostatic oil if there were no service requirements. Honda hydrostatic oil is 5W-30 petrolium based motor oil (Husqvarna's is too). I would imagine it is possible, even likely in some areas, that you could go the life of the unit with original equipment oil. There are duty cycles however whereas this may not happen.

The Ariens unit is completely self contained with a diaphragm bladder expansion tank. The 0W-40 synthetic hydrostatic oil in the Ariens will not deteriorate with an extreme duty cycle or higher ambient temperature hence there are no service requirements. Note also the oil in the Ariens is not the low grade hydrocracked petrolium oil which is what 99% of the "synthetic" labeled oils are at your local auto parts retailer. These types of oils work as well as a true synthetic but not to the same degree of longevity. If you do change out or fill the oil in your Honda I would recommend the same.

This message was modified Aug 24, 2012 by Snowmann
FrankMA


Location: Merrimack Valley/Northeastern Mass
Joined: Jul 1, 2010
Points: 587

Re: Husqvarna Track Drive Snowblower--How Good?
Reply #17   Aug 25, 2012 2:30 pm
Snowmann wrote:
http://m.powerequipment.honda.com/pdf/manuals/00X317677230.pdf

There are 2 sections that refer to it in this manual. There would be no reason to offer Honda branded hydrostatic oil if there were no service requirements. Honda hydrostatic oil is 5W-30 petrolium based motor oil (Husqvarna's is too). I would imagine it is possible, even likely in some areas, that you could go the life of the unit with original equipment oil. There are duty cycles however whereas this may not happen.

The Ariens unit is completely self contained with a diaphragm bladder expansion tank. The 0W-40 synthetic hydrostatic oil in the Ariens will not deteriorate with an extreme duty cycle or higher ambient temperature hence there are no service requirements. Note also the oil in the Ariens is not the low grade hydrocracked petrolium oil which is what 99% of the "synthetic" labeled oils are at your local auto parts retailer. These types of oils work as well as a true synthetic but not to the same degree of longevity. If you do change out or fill the oil in your Honda I would recommend the same.

Snowmann: I always appreciate the knowledgable feedback you offer on this forum. That said....

I'm not sure how this explanation relates to your statement "This is why there is a service schedule for the hydrostatic oil in the Honda and not the Ariens." Honda, as do many manufacturers, typically offer there own house label brand as a means to generate extra $$$ but also to ensure that the correct viscosity and type of oil is used during maintenance or repairs. I repeat what I said in my previous post however, in that the Honda owner's manual simply instructs you to check the fluid to make sure it's full and how to add fluid if needed. Go to page 43 - 44 of the pdf link you provided and read it for yourself. There simply is no "service schedule" as you implied.

This message was modified Aug 25, 2012 by FrankMA


Toro Wheel Horse 522xi GT, Honda HS928TA, Honda HS621AS, Honda HS520A, Toro CCR3000 (work in progress), Honda HS624WA (sold 08/23/2010), Stihl BR550 Backpack Blower, Stihl MS250, McCulloch MS1635, Honda EM6500SX Generator
Whoha


Location: Minneapolis
Joined: Nov 5, 2011
Points: 35

Re: Husqvarna Track Drive Snowblower--How Good?
Reply #18   Aug 25, 2012 10:11 pm
Snowmann wrote:
http://m.powerequipment.honda.com/pdf/manuals/00X317677230.pdf

There are 2 sections that refer to it in this manual. There would be no reason to offer Honda branded hydrostatic oil if there were no service requirements. Honda hydrostatic oil is 5W-30 petrolium based motor oil (Husqvarna's is too). I would imagine it is possible, even likely in some areas, that you could go the life of the unit with original equipment oil. There are duty cycles however whereas this may not happen.

The Ariens unit is completely self contained with a diaphragm bladder expansion tank. The 0W-40 synthetic hydrostatic oil in the Ariens will not deteriorate with an extreme duty cycle or higher ambient temperature hence there are no service requirements. Note also the oil in the Ariens is not the low grade hydrocracked petrolium oil which is what 99% of the "synthetic" labeled oils are at your local auto parts retailer. These types of oils work as well as a true synthetic but not to the same degree of longevity. If you do change out or fill the oil in your Honda I would recommend the same.


Snowman, Where did you find out the hydro oil in a newer  Honda 928 is 5w30 motor oil and the Husky is 0w40? I know Honda can go cheap, I own a Honda Odyessy  and it uses the Acura TL car tranny and it has major issues. The only way to save it flush out Honda trans oil three times with Redline synthetic because of no oil pan. That gives you 89%  or what ever of new Redline. I can see Honda going cheap on the oil. There is more to this story, but I won't get into it here.

So, why don't they use true tranny fluid? Can you state where you found this out, so if valid I will change over to Redline 0w 40 in my Honda 928 this year.  Please be long winded, the more info I can get the better.



An  off comment to this thread. I had a 828 Yamaha wheel that would plan and simple kill my 2011 928 Honda. The Honda seems to be a mid frame snowblower and the Yamaha was a large frame. The 8 hp motor on the Yamaha seems like a 11hp when comparing my Honda 928. My 20 year old Yamaha is greatly missed. The Honda was my only other choice in USA. I would of went with a Yamaha, but $3000+, no wheel version  and Canada only was not in the cards for me. I would kill for the larger heavier motor that the 1130 received.

.
This message was modified Aug 25, 2012 by Whoha
Whoha


Location: Minneapolis
Joined: Nov 5, 2011
Points: 35

Re: Husqvarna Track Drive Snowblower--How Good?
Reply #19   Aug 26, 2012 9:40 am
Added note ,I think I will wait till my warranty is up in 2 years till I make the move. But again, fill me in on the oil spec info.
This message was modified Aug 26, 2012 by Whoha
Snowmann


Joined: Dec 3, 2003
Points: 494

Re: Husqvarna Track Drive Snowblower--How Good?
Reply #20   Aug 31, 2012 10:29 pm
Whoha wrote:
Snowman, Where did you find out the hydro oil in a newer  Honda 928 is 5w30 motor oil and the Husky is 0w40? I know Honda can go cheap, I own a Honda Odyessy  and it uses the Acura TL car tranny and it has major issues. The only way to save it flush out Honda trans oil three times with Redline synthetic because of no oil pan. That gives you 89%  or what ever of new Redline. I can see Honda going cheap on the oil. There is more to this story, but I won't get into it here.

So, why don't they use true tranny fluid? Can you state where you found this out, so if valid I will change over to Redline 0w 40 in my Honda 928 this year.  Please be long winded, the more info I can get the better.



An  off comment to this thread. I had a 828 Yamaha wheel that would plan and simple kill my 2011 928 Honda. The Honda seems to be a mid frame snowblower and the Yamaha was a large frame. The 8 hp motor on the Yamaha seems like a 11hp when comparing my Honda 928. My 20 year old Yamaha is greatly missed. The Honda was my only other choice in USA. I would of went with a Yamaha, but $3000+, no wheel version  and Canada only was not in the cards for me. I would kill for the larger heavier motor that the 1130 received.

.


Both Honda and Husqvarna are 5W-30 Petrolium oil. 0W-40 synthetic oil will run ~10 degrees cooler (versus 5W-30 dino oil), have an operational ceiling temperature about 50-75 degress higher, it will have more stable operational characteristics at a broader range of operating temperatures (shorter warm up stall time at very low temps), and will not pass through the seal interface as readily due to its homogenous nature (no lighter constituent oils). Again, get real synthetic for longevity, not hydrocracked synthetic. Mobil 1 0W-40 European Car Formula is available at the Wal-Mart around here which is the real deal. This is what I would run in any hydrostatic snowblower transmission. Even more important would be use of synthetic gear oil in the auger gear cases. The Ariens L3 stuff is top shelf. It's a proprietary synthetic 75W-140 GL5 MT1 with a special EP formulation. I'd use this in the Honda too for many of the same reasons. The mis-matched gear set in the Honda (worm on helical) is hard on oil due to point contact. The film strength of the L3 oil will protect much better against metal on metal contact/pitting. Again, the oils that Honda uses probably work fine in most cases, but you can do better if the machine sees a very high duty cycle. The better lubricants will extend the life of the machine under those circumstances.

BTW, ATF transmission fluid is not suitable for use with Hydrostatic transmissions similar to the ones being discussed. As such, do not use. The viscosity characteristics are not compatible.

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