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borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Toro 221QE Didn't run right after storage
Original Message   Nov 15, 2011 1:32 pm
So I mixed up a fresh batch of 40:1 fuel, filled the 221QE and fired it up.   It fired on the first pull then stopped.  I primed it some more, put the choke on full and fired it up again.  It ran fine but when I took the choke off, it slowed down to about 1/3rd it's operating speed.  Put the choke back on and it revved up to what sounded like normal operating speed.   I kept the choke on and let it run like that for a minute or so thinking the fuel system needs to be fully charged.  However, that wasn't the case.  I stopped the machine, tilted it forward, removed the float bowl and inspected it.  Nice and clean.  Then I pulled the main jet to inspect it.  I could see light through the orifice but wasn't sure of how big of a hole should be there.  You never know with jets.  Nonetheless, I ran a piece of thin wire through it then blew it out with compressed air.  I also blew out the passage in the carb where the jet goes.  After cleaning the jet, I took a good look at the orifice.  The amount of light passing through it indicated It was much larger after cleaning.  Approx. 2/3rds larger than when it was restricted.   Compared to many carbs I've worked on, It does have a rather large orifice. 

The strange thing is that I bought this machine new less than a year ago.  I ran it completely out of fuel before I stored it yet it still managed to develop enough varnish in the main jet to cause problems.  Go figure?  That's the first time I've had that kind of a problem with my own equipment.  I still have the two Tecumseh powered machines to fire up yet.  I'll  let you know how they fared. 
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borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Toro 221QE Didn't run right after storage
Reply #4   Nov 15, 2011 5:53 pm
Yeah.  As soon as I cleaned/replaced the jet, put the fuel bowl back on it was ready to go.  Running great.  So are my two Tecumseh powered machines.  I've really learned to appreciate those Tecumseh two cycle engines.  Not saying the B&S R-tek isn't any good.  I just haven't had a lot of time using it.  We'll see how well they hold up this winter.  
blumonster


Location: Wisc.
Joined: Oct 14, 2011
Points: 163

Re: Toro 221QE Didn't run right after storage
Reply #5   Nov 15, 2011 5:57 pm
borat wrote:
Many people seem to  like to blame ethanol for every problem related to carburetors.  We've had e-gas up here for well over twelve years.  This is the first restricted main jet incident I've encountered with  my equipment. 

I just fired up the two Tecumseh engines with one pull each after sitting since last March.  One pull each!  I also fired up my Toro Power shovel.  It has a diaphragm carb and took a few pulls to fire up.  I also fired up the B&S engine on the Simplicity with one pull.    So, personally, I'm very reluctant to blame the e-gas for the carb problem.  Sometimes fuel will gum up.  When you think of how small a diameter the main jet is ( a little bigger than this "."), it's not hard to understand how they can occasionally get partially blocked or plugged when residual fuel dries up.

I posted the information just in case anyone else is having starting difficulty, insufficient engine speed or rough running.  If they are, it's likely something to do with the carb.  


I am not sure how it effects small engines but I was burnt once by ethanol.Fuel lines of my car were rusted like sieve.I had to replace the lines and the tank.I stopped buying ethanol gas. I have been filling up with 100% gas since then.It is 7-10 cents more per gallon but it is worth the price.
blumonster


Location: Wisc.
Joined: Oct 14, 2011
Points: 163

Re: Toro 221QE Didn't run right after storage
Reply #6   Nov 15, 2011 5:58 pm
.  
This message was modified Nov 15, 2011 by blumonster
MN_Runner


Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Joined: Dec 5, 2010
Points: 622

Re: Toro 221QE Didn't run right after storage
Reply #7   Nov 15, 2011 7:08 pm
I am not sure why certain blowers start and run without any issues and some do.  My HS35 is at least 20 years old and the sparkplug was rusted out but started on first or second pull. I am sure the gas is a few years old.  After the sparkplug change and with old gas, she starts on first pull and runs really smooth. I have not been picky on gas and had no issue thus far using 10% 87 octane gas grade.
ralphfr


Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Jan 22, 2011
Points: 40

Re: Toro 221QE Didn't run right after storage
Reply #8   Nov 15, 2011 7:17 pm
Borat, sorry to here about the carb issue with the Toro 221 as I just bought one last year also.  As I haven't yet brought mine out of storage yet this topic caught my attention. I'm not sure if this is an issue and I know you're aware of this but Toro does suggest 50:1. I also stored the machine with no fuel and was careful to tilt the machine in all directions until I was sure I burned most of it off. Ive yet to remove the cover and I'm curious if this machine has a drain on the float bowl or not?

Anyway I've been researching generators lately with all of the storms we've had here in New York and lo and behold they seem to be having the same fuel/carb issues. A lot of the discussions have been aimed at ethanol so I'm not sure how much of a factor it is or isn't. My understanding is that ethanol absorbs water which will settle into the lowest parts of the fuel system and oxidize over time. Fuel stabilizer in and of itself will not inhibit ethnol's ability to absorb moisture so armed with this info my plan is to try 91 octane fuel with Marine Sta-bil and to make sure I store the machine with a full tank during the winter season to limit condensation. The tricky part will be to find a way to keep the condensation at a minimum in the fuel storage container.  After all I've been reading during my research on snowthrowers and generators and due to the fact that it's impossible if not illegal to buy non-ethanol fuel in lower NYS, I'm thinking of going the full tank route for long term storage as there really is no way to be certain that the fuel system is completely dry.

Hope you all have a safe and happy snowthrowing season.
This message was modified Nov 15, 2011 by ralphfr
Dr_Woof


Don't blow into the wind, and don't eat yellow snow. WOOF!

Location: Saskatchewan
Joined: Dec 13, 2010
Points: 253

Re: Toro 221QE Didn't run right after storage
Reply #9   Nov 15, 2011 7:30 pm
Had a very similar issue with my Honda 928 last week.  Bought it last January and was stored with the carb and tank drained.  When I started it last week it had very similar issues.  The Honda has a drain but when I attempted to drain the system not much fuel came out - VERY slow dribble. But the solution was not what I feared (remove and clean the carb).  The Honda has a small sediment bowl under the tank.  Thinking it was maybe clogged, I removed and inspected it.  Clean as a whistle it was.  When I put it back, the machine started and ran like a top.  Go figure.   I am thinking maybe an air lock in the system somewhere.  BTY - my JD 826, bought in 1982, is treated similarly and always  starts and has never had the carb removed for cleaning.  Used the same gas as for the Honda.

borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Toro 221QE Didn't run right after storage
Reply #10   Nov 15, 2011 7:46 pm
One little issue in all these years is insignificant.  The 221Q is super easy to work on.  The carb has a little access door.  Tilt the machine forward, remove the access door, pull the float bowl, pull the jet, clean it and put everything back together.  Less than 10 minutes.  Tools needed one medium sized philips screw driver to open the access door, one 5/16th" wrench to remove the float bowl bolt and one mediium small flat screw driver to unscrew the jet.   Very simple.  
ralphfr


Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Jan 22, 2011
Points: 40

Re: Toro 221QE Didn't run right after storage
Reply #11   Nov 15, 2011 7:57 pm
Thanks for the information Borat. Hopefully I won't have to go that route at least until the warranty runs out.
stresst


Location: The Village in the Middle of New York
Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Points: 213

Re: Toro 221QE Didn't run right after storage
Reply #12   Nov 15, 2011 8:42 pm
MN_Runner wrote:
I am not sure why certain blowers start and run without any issues and some do.  My HS35 is at least 20 years old and the sparkplug was rusted out but started on first or second pull. I am sure the gas is a few years old.  After the sparkplug change and with old gas, she starts on first pull and runs really smooth. I have not been picky on gas and had no issue thus far using 10% 87 octane gas grade.


For some reason I ran into the same issues with my ATV's. seems the newer ones almost always have issues. While a 86 Honda 250 and 1992 Bayou always start up! I never run them dry or even shut the gas valve off. Then I have newer atv's that the carbs need servicing every other year or so! Friggen ridiculous!

TORO 826OXE
Moderator Denis


Location: CAN
Joined:
Points: 638

Re: Toro 221QE Didn't run right after storage
Reply #13   Nov 15, 2011 10:58 pm
Hey Borat my buddy how are you these days?, well I'm surprised for all thoses years you've been handling your machines like the king of the strokes...I think you just got a "citrus" It happens, probaly someone before you cleaned the jet the wrong way and bust something inside the carb there. I'm sure if you can get a used carb it will fix the problem. Once I had a similar problem
This message was modified Nov 16, 2011 by Denis



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