Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Electrolux added the automatic shut off and pop out feature in its paper bagged tank line in the mid 1950's. 

Carmine D.

Hi M00seUK,

The idea's quite nice but it would mean employing strategically placed dust sensors in a bagless machine.  That would probably cause a rise in cost unfavorable to most consumers and probably more maintenance issues for keeping the sensors clean.  Anyway . . .

Funny thing happend yesterday.  A salesman was explaining the difference in two canister vac models of the same brand to a mother and her teenage daughter.  When he told them that one had a full bag alert and that the other didin't the daughter asked, "Well how do you know when the bag is full?"

"You look," I said.

I am always amazed how things that are simple can so easily escape people lately.  I don't know whether that is attributable to over-hype of so-called feature advantages. 

Venson

I only know of a few people who recycle vacuum bags and I never heard of Dyson's using that as a sales campaign pitch point.  As well, for good or ill, disposable bags in the U.S. were definitely intended to be used once and then tossed.  They are a great convenience of course but disposable bags also appear to be and have been the vac industry's way of maintaining connection with end-users -- and their money. (Forgive me, I've been reading Noam Chomsky.'s Manufacturing Consent.) Due to replacement likelihood, disposable bags -- replaceable belts and two types of required filters -- generate far more continuing revenue than replacements for permanent bags.

As far as I'm concerned, suction level debates often makes mountains out of mole hills.  I do not claim that bagged machine suction does not lessen somewhat, say from week one's insertion of a fresh bag to week four when the bag is nearly full, but I strongly state that available suction in better models is satisfactory for the same tasks all along that period of time.  As for power consumption levels, I live in an old building that has my aprtments two circuit breakers down in the basement and the only access is through my landlord's office.  Trip a breaker on a Sunday or a holiday when he's not around and you have to wait 'til Monday to get it switched on again.  Thus no ironing or vacuuming with an air conditioner on, etc.  That in mind, I use the Miele(s) using several speeds and have no problems.  I do this sometimes as compromise to avoid consumption related problems and sometimes because the work at hand calls for it.  Speed switched all the way down, I can clean really light scatter rugs using the power nozzle to effect a better clean with les effort, switched all the way up I can zip over bare flooring and stairs very quickly.

As well, I have only had two vacs that had automatic power adjustment but liked both very much.  The Hoover Dimension canister that I owned started up at about mid-speed when set on "automatic" and only increased if it sensed a build up of dust in the bag or if there was a particular concentration in the area that I was cleaning.  Made perfect sense to me and was my idea of useful as far as energy efficieny was concerned.  Come to think of it, it was one of the most sensible vacs Hoover ever made.  Can't figure out why they stopped putting it or something like out.

Bagless vacuums still do not generally offer collection capacity for continuous cleaning as genrous as many bagged vacuums and require more work to keep them running properly.  I open the bag chamber of my bagged vacuum and everything I need to see (bag and pre-filter) are right there.  If the look of  the pre-filter doesn't please my eye I can change it without a lot of fuss and the bag's a breeze to replace.  My idea of heaven.  My other vision of Heaven is merely to be in that wonderful position of having just enough.  Therefore, if I have just enough suction to everyday get work done efficiently and quickly, I'm happy and hopefully duly grateful.

Last but not least, a very large part of vacuum cleaner advertising claims rely on malarkey.  I have seen this occur with generations of American vacs of all brands.  I don't think we need special agencies to protect us from madness in the vac makers' conference rooms as much as we need consumers to apply a little common sense.

Venson

If I may add my 2 cents, Venson when you do the comparison use your MIELE S7 upright with 6.76 qt dirt bag capacity [if Vacmanuk is referring to a dyson upright dirt bin capacity] rather than your S5 MIELE cann with 4.76 qt dirt capacity.    Might suggest Vacmanuk you do the same and let us know the results.   

Carmine  D.

If I may add my 2 cents, Venson when you do the comparison use your MIELE S7 upright with 6.76 qt dirt bag capacity [if Vacmanuk is referring to a dyson upright dirt bin capacity] rather than your S5 MIELE cann with 4.76 qt dirt capacity.    Might suggest Vacmanuk you do the same and let us know the results.   

Carmine  D.

Hi guys,

Opinions are always welcome but I don't see myself making such tests in the near future.  The only only Dyson so far that made an impression on me was the DC28. The suction's nice and it cleans well plus is user adjustable for carpet height.   And guess what?  It's not a ball model that, according to Dyson at least, the world can't live without.  Fancy that.

However, no matter the model, I hate the attachment set-up.   Just a few days back, I had opportunity to handle the DC33 that seems to be drawing interest from some shoppers by way of pricing but was first, taken aback by its flimsy feel and second, "bitten" again while try to get the hose and wand assembly in back in place after removing them to check out the suction.  That also proved a waste.  Serves me right for not knowing better.

The "those nasty old clogged up bags" campaign has been with us for years and so has the malarkey.  Rexair -- now Rainbow -- for one, was supposed to have solved the problem by tossing the idea of contained cyclones to the wind (is that a pun) AND  bags also by giving us a monsoon in a can.  "Wet dust cannot fly."  You didn't have to buy bags but you did get to tote around the weight equivalent of a large, filled mop bucket as you cleaned.  And to what avail?  They had to and still have to be emptied and refilled during cleaning sessions to keep dust collection at its best.  They did not capture all the dust they claimed and in later years, without the least of a sheepish look in regard to how the company had long swore by its claims that the water batch captured everything, began to slap on HEPA filters.  Bottom line, cleaning was satisfactory and filtering tolerable but the the trade off for water instead of a bag simply led to a lot of work.  A lot of bright ideas in the vacuum industry have proved interesting science as well but lead to more work than I'm prepared to deal with at present.

I am not as concerned over how much Dyson or bagless vacs in general can pick as I am over maintenance issues.  My bagged machines, so far, free me up from extra work and put forth little need for serious attention on my part over the long run save for reasonable care and use.  Oddly enough I was asked the advantage of bagless as opposed to bagged and the best answer I could give is that it all depends upon what the user is prepared to deal with.  A regular maintenance regimen to keep a bagless machine performing its best and thus make the payoff for not having to buy bags count or shouldering the responsibility of paying a required amount for disposable vacuum bags and filters in the name of convenience and less work.

It would seem, at least to me, that a so-called advantage would mean that which lessens problems as opposed to increasing them.  If Dyson owners can continually run their machines when dirts past the fill line in the bin and still have them over the long without a lot of trips to repair shops, good for them.  It's me who sees no advantage.

Venson

You're very lucky.  Most households have and can only afford one vacuum and rely on it for all related tasks.  Miele loses points by way of its pricing in general and there'll never be a way that it will convince me that the cost of manufacture and shipping of bags from wherever they're made amounts any where near the $19.00 and change (before sales tax) that's being asked here.  I seldom spend that much on a shirt.

But that's the way of the world I guess.  Can you believe that smokers here in New York now actually pay $7.00 to $10.00 per pack for cigarettes?  You'd think they'd quit but they don't.  They may groan a bit about it but in the end they meet the price and keep puffing.  I can't say that the increasing cost of an addiction makes a good comparison but I assume Miele expects somewhat the same result once its hooked a sale.  "You went out and bought the thing so what are you gonna do?"

The only way that will change is when and if other manufacturers start offering better deals.

Venson

Not for my benefit.  I'm with Venson on the dirt bag/bin capacities.  I was suggesting that any comparison of dirt containment capacity be like kind.  Cann bag to cann dirt bin.  Up bag to up dirt bin.  For parity.  Using straight suction to vacuum up a bag's contents is not the same as using the vacuum itself to pick up the same contents itself.  By letting the first vacuum do all the work, and letting the second merely straight suction up, is a lot easier on the second vacuum than the first vacuum.  Plus you can NEVER straight suction the imbedded dirt in the pores of the filter bag into the bin by straight suction alone.  Try it.  Then shake the vacuumed bag and see what comes out.  More fine dirt and dust that is bonded to the bag's filter and air pores.  If it were as easy as straight suctioning the used bag, then a case could be made for reusing the bag.  But it's not.  Why?  Dump the bag.  Suction clean.  Still have pores in the bag filled with fine dust and dirt.  Which degrades and comprises the filtering and air pass through of the bag to keep the motor cool anmd suction at peak performance.  If you have some old HOOVER upright reusable paper bags [from the models 60, 61, and 62] note the heavier density of the paper vice the disposable paper bags. 

Carmine D.