Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Looking back over the past year, one thing conspicuously absent from this forum is a rabid Rainbow enthusiast.  Perhaps it is difficult to justify the outrageous price of these door to door wonders.   To some extent, a Rainbow owner has to believe in the Rainbow sales pitch and doesn't want to be confronted with any negative information about the Rainbow.    I also noticed that overstock.com is no longer selling the refurbished Rainbow SE's with the Wesselwerks small power nozzles.    Given the economy, it's got to be tough selling $2000+ vacuums - even if they can purify one's home. 

Severus wrote:

Hi SEVERUS:

The fly in the ointment is timing and changes.  Under 2 year warranty, dyson makes good.  No repair cost for the faulty clutch.  Nothing to report.  After warranty but before 5 years, if not the 5 year warranty coverage, the matter still may not be in the CR surveys and reporting data base for problematic repairs.  By the time these are widely reported and tracked, dyson dodged the bullet on the gig.  Says it has 5 year warranties starting in August 2006 and the models are discontinued anyway.

My dyson DC07 pink with gawdawful floating head and clutch would have been missed by CR surveys for the reason you mentioned and I highlighted.  After several workarounds within a few days of purchase, the dyson help line told me to return it to the retailer for a credit.  Saying emphatically that unless I wanted to vacuum my rugs in the tool mode/barefloor mode, a dyson will not work on my carpets.  Why?  Floating head and clutch.  Both now are discontinued.  I suspect in large part to the refurbs from return of these models.  It will be interesting to see, as you said, how and when these refurbs with clutch problems get into the CR data base. 

Carmine D.

Hi SEVERUS:

I'm not sure refurbs even get counted in the Consumer Reports survey data.  If not, and just new vacuum purchases, the clutch and belt issues, will as you said, be harder to collect, track and report from the customer surveys.  Dyson dodges the bullet.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

It's been awhile since I did an annual survey, but I don't think Consumer Reports distinguishes between new and refurbished vacuums.  Refurbs are supposed to be repaired to like new condition, so I suspect they are included.   Consumer Reports data has severe limitations because they are self-report, but it has a pretty good sample size.    It's not in the best interests of manufacturers to self-report the true data, so the CR is about the best information available - for better or worse.  

Whether Dyson extended their warranties due to problems or to gain a competetive edge - I have no idea.  I'm not sure how Dyson compares with Miele/Sebo/Lindhaus and the other European vacuums on warranty.    On the other vacuum forum, there have been complaints about the hoses on Miele S7's, so even the high end products aren't totally free of problems. 

Severus wrote:

Hello SEVERUS:

Thanks for the insight on Consumer Reports and refurbs.  It's a murky area from my perspective.  If CR does not know the source/origin of the refurbs and their integrity, it's difficult for CR to assign proper blame for product repairs.  Are the repairs product/maker related and/or are the repairs the fault of shoddy rebuilds by the refurbers?  Difficult to say with certitude.  I would have my doubts and most likely the brand makers would too.

WRT MIELE's S7 line, it was rushed to market and has been available for about a year now.  Hose problems, as we learned from Melanie [Catlady] and know in general, are covered under the warranty with no out of pocket costs to the MIELE buyers.  If in fact hose problems are the only issue that has surfaced for the S7 models, considering how quickly it was produced/marketed, I'd say hats off to MIELE for a job done very well.  I also expect that the design/operation defects in the hose will be corrected quickly by MIELE in future production.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Does Dyson do their own refurbs?  Given the relatively high cost of even refurbished Dysons, I suspect their owners would report on them.   CR asks when you bought the item (in years), and whether you've had a problem excluding things considered routine maintenance. 

For a while you could get Rainbow refurbs on overstock.com.  I'm not sure how one would count these given that they had a nonstandard power nozzle (i.e. Wesselwerks) on the refurbs.     Each respondent has to decide how to answer the question.       These refurbs were also Rainbow SE's, which is at least a 10 year old model. 

I'll have to watch for my next survey and take note of what they say. 

Severus wrote:

Hello SEVERUS:

Yes and No.  Anyone besides and/or including dyson and its authorized dyson dealers can sell previously owned dysons.  The sellers can call them refurbs [for refurbished], demoes, displays, rebuilts, slightly used, etc.   They can sell them "as is" with/without a warranty depending on the sales price through any means possible.  Consumer Reports' surveys would have to collect detailed information about the facts and circumstances of the purchases to have credible data/means to distinguish real product related problems from re-sellers' related problems [shoddy workmanship].  I don't expect or believe that CR has the resources and inclination to do this. 

It is far simpler and easier for CR to collect and report only on vacuums that are sold new through recognized retailers.  Hence, the reason CR could and should actively query independent vacuum stores for input and feedback on vacuum reliability data and repairs rather than only consumers. 

Carmine D. 

CarmineD wrote:
CR has in the past used vacuum consultants, which would likely be independents.   A consultant could certainly point out design weaknesses.   The problem with data from independents is that they cannot  estimate the proportion of vacuums needing repairs.  They may be able to estimate the numerator of the ratio of interest, but they have no basis for the denominator.  Moreover, more expensive vacuums like Dysons/Orecks may go to the store for repair, while the cheaper vacuums end up in the trash heap.  Independents also have their biases too.  An independent might be tempted to knock the vacs sold at big box stores in favor of independent brands. 

Severus wrote:

Hi SEVERUS: 

As always thanks for the insight.  WRT the statement I highlighted, I'd say:  Not all independents [or retired independents who consulted to the industry] . 

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Bias isn't limited to vacuum sellers.  Those who buy an expensive  machine - whether a Kirby/Rainbow/Miele/Dyson/Sebo/Oreck want to believe that the product they bought is the best.  So when CR reports that the performance of their monster vac is similar to a cheaper brand, they get upset.  It's normal human reaction.  

If I were selling the Supervac 5000 and had the opportunity to get it a good rating at CR, I would do what it takes to help my bottom line. 

Severus wrote:

Hello SEVERUS:

Good points.  Never pushed one brand/model in particular in business.  Always carried all different makes and models, new and used.  If it was a good product for the price, we carried/sold it and stood behind them.  Even had some not so good new vacuums: Westinghouse.  We stood behind the good ones and the not so good ones and we made sure our customers were satisfied with the quality of the repalcement parts and service.  

Carmine D.