Vacuum Cleaners Discussions |
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DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
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Samsung's- Dirt Devil Eraser / Halo inspired UV patent.
Original Message Jun 1, 2009 1:12 pm |
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Just to be clear
Reply #62 Nov 14, 2009 6:36 am |
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Walt was nice to name a character after you. GOOFY HAVE A WONDERFUL OUTING WITH THE FAMILY.
Actually, and factually, it was Gepetto. Dopey always got that wrong too!
Carmine D.
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DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
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Re: Just to be clear
Reply #65 Nov 14, 2009 2:49 pm |
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Carmine, I respect your 50 plus years in the vacuum industry, and the decades you supported a family and supplied gainful employment for others so they could likewise support their families, but I do not worship you, sorry. Admired aquaintance and fellow vac enthusiast you are, hero, no, but then I don't think you are the sort of man who requires or desires hero worship anyway, (OK with your grandkids, I'll cut you a little slack  ) DIB, Like some others on this and other forums you seem to have a knack for stirring hostility against yourself. Carmine, Venson, Severus, mole, turtle, and others are able to dialog, share differing opinions and support them with facts, or at least unapologetically acknowledge them as personal preferences or prejudices without all this truculent diatribe. You allude to knowledge and connections in the vacuum industry, and to be fair you seem to be on top of the current patent issues, but it's all rather vague and insubstantial. I grow weary of the boorishness of your exchanges. You might actually be a decent person. Why not give yourself a chance, and us a chance to take things to a higher level. Leave the verbal brawling where it belongs, on the grammar school playground. I looked at the Consumer Oct 2009 reports and they rated Kirby and Dyson as the two most reliable uprights. OK, I can buy that. But I have a little trouble believing Simplicty/Riccar and Miele are among the lowest in relaiability. Now, true, the lowest still means only about 14% needed repair, but can anyone explain precisely how the figures are derived? Does the response require a model and serial number? Are people accidentally, or puposefully mis-reporting the ages of their vacuums? My experience was always that people vastly underestimated the age of their vacuums,and vastly overstated the cost of any repairs because for most people a vacuum cleaner is a grudge expense. People resent the money they spend on their vacuums. So how does the collection of reliability data work and how accurate is it? I am not interested in any bashing of C/R or similar agencies. I really want to understand how the data is gathered and reported, and of what value it is in making a vacuum purchase. By the way, has anyone seen the Karcher household canisters? I saw them online, but not in the USA, at least yet. I also saw two models of the SEBO Felix in yellow, can't remember if they were Tornado or Karcher. Was Karcher with Tornado at one time? Or are/were they simply buying the same/similar machines and having them labeled? Trebor Trebor, I am a good guy and so is James Dyson. Many here dislike me/like to dislike me and why shouldn’t they? I expose the many trickery's and falsehoods (sugar coated words for lying and twisting) told by competing manufacturers and their representatives. And I expose the inventive ineptness and much copying by said manufacturers. Like most, I hate the lazy, thieving and liars. Somehow and for some reason competing [to Dyson] dealers believe they’re livelihoods should be supported while telling untruths (another sugar coated word for lies). My track record is clear, I never (to the best of my knowledge) hammer on, make fun of or confront any dealer or enthusiast’s who fly’s straight as pertaining to Dyson. Did I confront Carmine when his Dyson dealer buddy said some wire harnesses are faulty? No. And you won’t find me confronting anyone who has a valid point (can be proven true). How helpful is dumping on Dyson for Dyson-dealers like Dusty? He sell’s Dyson’s and other brands. If I were him I’d be piss’d off at the clowns for lying of my products. He seems like a good guy, but why should he debate his income generator much (his Dyson’s) when he has me? On the clubber site, many there have a small mans mentality and need to dump on men who get things done, create inventions, create jobs and wealth. The club site and being with clubbers is a better vehicle for unsubstantiated Dyson bashing (a sugar coated word for bad-mouthing). If you want to try out any new Dyson bashing or Dyson bad-mouthing concepts and see if I can defeat them then this is what mole and I do and Carmine and I do and Venson and I do. I liked what Model2 had to offer here, and I liked what Motorhead had to offer here and I liked what T.G. offered here (long ago) and they are gone – I did not chase them away and that’s demonstrable. Is there anyone in the UK more knowledgeable about vacuums and vacuum history than Model2? Is there anyone more willing to post vacuum videos than Model2? Have you seen Model2’s YouTube channel? The newer Dyson inventions are approaching ¼ million hits, and no other vacuum or brand (he’s uploaded) comes close to these numbers and interest and in such a short time frame. Carmine worked him over pretty good and over petty things like how he cared for his vacuum/s. Carmine and mole worked Motorhead over pretty good too. And surprise, surprise – they’re gone. Go figure. DIB
This message was modified Nov 14, 2009 by DysonInventsBig
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CarmineD
Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894
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Re: Just to be clear
Reply #66 Nov 14, 2009 2:57 pm |
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Trebor,
I am a good guy and so is James Dyson. Many here dislike me/like to dislike me and why shouldn’t they? I expose the many trickery's and falsehoods (sugar coated words for lying and twisting) told by competing manufacturers and their representatives. And I expose the inventive ineptness and much copying by said manufacturers. Like most, I hate the lazy, thieving and liars. Somehow and for some reason competing [to Dyson] dealers believe they’re livelihoods should be supported while telling untruths (another sugar coated word for lies). My track record is clear, I never (to the best of my knowledge) hammer on, make fun of or confront any dealer or enthusiast’s who fly’s straight as pertaining to Dyson. Did I confront Carmine when his Dyson dealer buddy said some wire harnesses are faulty? No. And you won’t find me confronting anyone who has a valid point (can be proven true). How helpful is dumping on Dyson for Dyson-dealers like Dusty? He sell’s Dyson’s and other brands. If I were him I’d be piss’d off at the clowns for lying of my products. He seems like a good guy, but why should he debate his income generator much (his Dyson’s) when he has me? On the clubber site, many there have a small mans mentality and need to dump on men who get things done, create inventions, create jobs and wealth. The club site and being with clubbers is a better vehicle for unsubstantiated Dyson bashing (a sugar coated word for bad-mouthing). If you want to try out any new Dyson bashing or Dyson bad-mouthing concepts and see if I can defeat them then this is what mole and I do and Carmine and I do and Venson and I do.
I liked what Model2 had to offer here, and I liked what Motorhead had to offer here and I like what T.G. offered here (long ago) and they are gone – I did not chase them away and that’s demonstrable.
Is there anyone in the UK more knowledgeable about vacuums and vacuum history than Model2? Is there anyone more willing to post vacuum videos than Model2? Have you seen Model2’s YouTube channel? The newer Dyson inventions are approaching ¼ million hits, and no other vacuum or brand (he’s uploaded) comes close to these numbers and interest. Carmine worked him over pretty good and over petty things like how he cared for his vacuum/s. Carmine and mole worked Motorhead over pretty good too. And surprise, surprise – they’re gone. - Go figure.
DIB dyson DiB: Many vacuum products and their performance equal/surpass your ONE AND ONLY favorite brand. All posters here, not just dyson ones, can recommend brands/models to those who ask without the expectation of having you/others of the ONE BRAND FITS ALL contingency shouting them down. Usually with insults both personally and professionally. You enjoy 'confronting' [your word] posters like VENSON, MOLE, SEVERUS, TREBOR and ALL the independents who don't sell/won't sell and don't recommend dysons as the cleaning panacea for the ages. Even if it is an income generator [your words] for you and Sir James and dyson dealers. The dyson fits all mantra is silly, unrealistic, and so conspicuously self-serving that it is laughable. BTW, I'm a good guy too with over 55 years in the vacuum business and a pristine reputation as back up. How about you? Carmine D.
This message was modified Nov 14, 2009 by CarmineD
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Trebor
Joined: Jan 16, 2009
Points: 321
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Re: Just to be clear
Reply #67 Nov 16, 2009 9:01 am |
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Trebor,
I am a good guy and so is James Dyson. Many here dislike me/like to dislike me and why shouldn’t they? I expose the many trickery's and falsehoods (sugar coated words for lying and twisting) told by competing manufacturers and their representatives. And I expose the inventive ineptness and much copying by said manufacturers. (Patents expire and become legitimate public domain. It is the way of the business world. If patents were forever much less would be done in the improvement of products in the marketplace.) Like most, I hate the lazy, thieving and liars. (James Dyson LIED when he claimed his vacuums were the first and the only vacuum never to lose suction. The Rexair/Rainbow beat him to it. Not counting all of the central vacs who can make that claim.) I have a DC4 that is 23 years old, in very hard, almost daily use (about 10K sq ft of carpet/week) I have replaced the electric hose, once, the roller and belts are consumables, the carbon brushes, once) Somehow and for some reason competing [to Dyson] dealers believe they’re livelihoods should be supported while telling untruths (another sugar coated word for lies). My track record is clear, I never (to the best of my knowledge) hammer on, make fun of or confront any dealer or enthusiast’s who fly’s straight as pertaining to Dyson. Did I confront Carmine when his Dyson dealer buddy said some wire harnesses are faulty? (My local dealer said the same. He was making in excess of 100K/yr repairing Dysons before Dyson canceled him. Now he trades a lot of them in. Very dumb move on Dyson's part. He makes more on a Miele sale than a Dyson repair. Once someone has decided the perfomance/cost ratio of the BBR's vacuum offerings is unsatisfactory to them it's easy to bump them up into an 800.00 plus, (now 500.00) Miele when their $500.00 Dyson needs an out of warranty repair after 2yrs) No. And you won’t find me confronting anyone who has a valid point (But you don't always acknowledge them either, DIB. If I have not seen it, I apologize, but you have not responded to the my mentioning the FACT of the new filtration bags not losing suction, nor the YOUTUBE video of a Miele sucking the contents of a Dyson container stuffed FULL of kapock into a bag and compacting it so tightly that the bag seems to be almost empty. You have not responded to the fact that Dyson hoses are easily ripped at the socket into the machine (seen lots of them, sorry) It would not be so bad IF the manual would explain that the hose was not meant to pull the cleaner along like it were a cylinder/canister type machine. The damage occurs when people tug the cleaner around to a different direction and are not simply rolling it closer to them when they yank on the hose. How many customers have YOU had to deal with when they find out that their "full 5yr warranty" does not include the hose, there was no indication in their manual they were doing anything wrong and "the salesman said everything was covered under warranty for 5 yrs." How helpful is dumping on Dyson for Dyson-dealers like Dusty? He sell’s Dyson’s and other brands. If I were him I’d be piss’d off at the clowns for lying of my products. He seems like a good guy, but why should he debate his income generator much (his Dyson’s) when he has me? On the clubber site, many there have a small mans mentality and need to dump on men who get things done, create inventions, create jobs and wealth. The club site and being with clubbers is a better vehicle for unsubstantiated Dyson bashing (a sugar coated word for bad-mouthing). If you want to try out any new Dyson bashing or Dyson bad-mouthing concepts and see if I can defeat them then this is what mole and I do and Carmine and I do and Venson and I do. (Have you read the Kirby/Dyson comparison on the Greatvacs website? Very thorough and balanced, in my estimation)
I liked what Model2 had to offer here, and I liked what Motorhead had to offer here and I liked what T.G. offered here (long ago) and they are gone – I did not chase them away and that’s demonstrable. Please, everyone, give DIB an opportunity to respond. I am not looking to start anything, I want to hear what DIB has to say.
Trebor
Is there anyone in the UK more knowledgeable about vacuums and vacuum history than Model2? Is there anyone more willing to post vacuum videos than Model2? Have you seen Model2’s YouTube channel? The newer Dyson inventions are approaching ¼ million hits, and no other vacuum or brand (he’s uploaded) comes close to these numbers and interest and in such a short time frame. Carmine worked him over pretty good and over petty things like how he cared for his vacuum/s. Carmine and mole worked Motorhead over pretty good too. And surprise, surprise – they’re gone. Go figure.
DIB
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DysonInventsBig
Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454
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Re: Just to be clear
Reply #68 Nov 18, 2009 4:06 pm |
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Trebor,
I am a good guy and so is James Dyson. Many here dislike me/like to dislike me and why shouldn’t they? I expose the many trickery's and falsehoods (sugar coated words for lying and twisting) told by competing manufacturers and their representatives. And I expose the inventive ineptness and much copying by said manufacturers. (Patents expire and become legitimate public domain. It is the way of the business world. If patents were forever much less would be done in the improvement of products in the marketplace.) Like most, I hate the lazy, thieving and liars. (James Dyson LIED when he claimed his vacuums were the first and the only vacuum never to lose suction. The Rexair/Rainbow beat him to it. Not counting all of the central vacs who can make that claim.) I have a DC4 that is 23 years old, in very hard, almost daily use (about 10K sq ft of carpet/week) I have replaced the electric hose, once, the roller and belts are consumables, the carbon brushes, once) Somehow and for some reason competing [to Dyson] dealers believe they’re livelihoods should be supported while telling untruths (another sugar coated word for lies). My track record is clear, I never (to the best of my knowledge) hammer on, make fun of or confront any dealer or enthusiast’s who fly’s straight as pertaining to Dyson. Did I confront Carmine when his Dyson dealer buddy said some wire harnesses are faulty? (My local dealer said the same. He was making in excess of 100K/yr repairing Dysons before Dyson canceled him. Now he trades a lot of them in. Very dumb move on Dyson's part. He makes more on a Miele sale than a Dyson repair. Once someone has decided the perfomance/cost ratio of the BBR's vacuum offerings is unsatisfactory to them it's easy to bump them up into an 800.00 plus, (now 500.00) Miele when their $500.00 Dyson needs an out of warranty repair after 2yrs) No. And you won’t find me confronting anyone who has a valid point (But you don't always acknowledge them either, DIB. If I have not seen it, I apologize, but you have not responded to the my mentioning the FACT of the new filtration bags not losing suction, nor the YOUTUBE video of a Miele sucking the contents of a Dyson container stuffed FULL of kapock into a bag and compacting it so tightly that the bag seems to be almost empty. You have not responded to the fact that Dyson hoses are easily ripped at the socket into the machine (seen lots of them, sorry) It would not be so bad IF the manual would explain that the hose was not meant to pull the cleaner along like it were a cylinder/canister type machine. The damage occurs when people tug the cleaner around to a different direction and are not simply rolling it closer to them when they yank on the hose. How many customers have YOU had to deal with when they find out that their "full 5yr warranty" does not include the hose, there was no indication in their manual they were doing anything wrong and "the salesman said everything was covered under warranty for 5 yrs." How helpful is dumping on Dyson for Dyson-dealers like Dusty? He sell’s Dyson’s and other brands. If I were him I’d be piss’d off at the clowns for lying of my products. He seems like a good guy, but why should he debate his income generator much (his Dyson’s) when he has me? On the clubber site, many there have a small mans mentality and need to dump on men who get things done, create inventions, create jobs and wealth. The club site and being with clubbers is a better vehicle for unsubstantiated Dyson bashing (a sugar coated word for bad-mouthing). If you want to try out any new Dyson bashing or Dyson bad-mouthing concepts and see if I can defeat them then this is what mole and I do and Carmine and I do and Venson and I do. (Have you read the Kirby/Dyson comparison on the Greatvacs website? Very thorough and balanced, in my estimation)
I liked what Model2 had to offer here, and I liked what Motorhead had to offer here and I liked what T.G. offered here (long ago) and they are gone – I did not chase them away and that’s demonstrable. Please, everyone, give DIB an opportunity to respond. I am not looking to start anything, I want to hear what DIB has to say.
Trebor
Is there anyone in the UK more knowledgeable about vacuums and vacuum history than Model2? Is there anyone more willing to post vacuum videos than Model2? Have you seen Model2’s YouTube channel? The newer Dyson inventions are approaching ¼ million hits, and no other vacuum or brand (he’s uploaded) comes close to these numbers and interest and in such a short time frame. Carmine worked him over pretty good and over petty things like how he cared for his vacuum/s. Carmine and mole worked Motorhead over pretty good too. And surprise, surprise – they’re gone. Go figure.
DIB Trebor, The use of using - in the public domain expired patents: I do wonder why corporate suits would rather have sloppy seconds (wait for Dyson patents to expire) over inventing their own patent protected monopolies and enjoy the notoriety, free publicity, profits, security and other upsides that accompanies this process. I also wonder about this sloppy seconds mentality as how it relates to good stewardship for their employees. Is a sloppy second mentality going to create, keep and well-pay their employees and help provide for their families? Before Dyson, before Rainbow: Long before the Rainbow water-bath [shop] vac there was a railcar water vac. If you search this site, I’ve posted a patent drawing of it somewhere. Me not commenting on your claims or positions: I do not pour over all the posts for sure, I have not commented on your [above] claims or positions since I have not seen any supporting information. I’ve got to run. DIB
This message was modified Nov 18, 2009 by DysonInventsBig
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Trebor
Joined: Jan 16, 2009
Points: 321
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Re: Samsung's- Dirt Devil Eraser / Halo inspired UV patent.
Reply #69 Nov 18, 2009 8:30 pm |
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DIB,
Thanks for responding.
If there were no expiration dates on patents, or if the prevailing morality were to prevent the use of any prior art, no matter how old, then Dyson vacuums could not exist today, in fact nearly all vacuums would not exist. Hoover invented the revolving brush roll and the beater bar. Air-Way invented the paper bag. No one else would have these features because only the originator would have them. Hoover had patents for on-board tools very early (late 1930's) and Jim Kirby had a patent for it in 1953. So if everyone subscribed to your 'sloppy seconds' mentality, no one save the original inventor would ever be allowed to improve on his inventions because holding the patent is totally separate from putting it into production. In fact, companies patent ideas and variations of them 'pre-emptively' so that people who are inspired from an idea to improve it or make it differently are foiled from doing so for the period of the patent exclusivity. So, under your belief of the way things should be, the one who can patent the most ideas the fastest is the one who wins. And you know who loses? You and me and everybody else that's who, because unless someone has a totally original idea, and can patent it, nothing new could ever be manufactured. And that would include cyclonic separation, because the separator invented by John Newcomb, was originally used to cyclonically separate wood particles (sawdust) from the air. You missed my point about Rexair/Rainbow. The fact that there was another water filtration vacuum before 1936 does not alter the fact that James Dyson falsely claimed Dyson to be the first and the only vacuum that does not lose suction.
The efficiency of the new filter bags (maintaining suction while filtering at nearly 100%,) is widely known by people in the vacuum cleaner community, but nonetheIess I will do some research and post the links for everyone to see.
Trebor
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