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DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454


Original Message   Jun 28, 2008 12:41 am

Dyson is in the news frequently and so a dedicated thread.

.

This message was modified Aug 2, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



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DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454


Reply #461   Jan 13, 2009 6:27 pm
Model2 wrote:
DIB,

I'm interested by what you say, because I have a DC18  Slim All Floors +Allergy, and I've never found it heavy to push on carpet. In fact, it's my favourite incarnation of Dyson's steerable line yet. I think it's a great shame they dropped it from the line-up so quickly. The DC24 may be even lighter and more compact, but I prefer the roller on the Slim to the Ball. It offers all the same benefits, with the additional advantage of allowing the cleaner to have a lower profile for cleaning under furniture, etc. The DC18 is nearly twice as powerful, and offers a longer hose and better dusting tools.

I guess the sales drawback between the two systems is that the big, brightly coloured Ball immediately stands out to potential buyers and catches their attention, whereas the roller is hidden from view under the cleaner.

... That's been my view too and for some time.

re: blade drag
 I do not own a DC18 and only experimented with one at my home for a little while. The blade simply does what it is designed to do, that is... scrape. On my Berber carpet it was noticeable and measurable. With the vacuum running and with the blade removed the vacuum measured about 1/2 of a pound easier to push/pull (if I remember correctly). In my opinion this COULD OF been easily avoided (engineered better) and when Which Magazine announces - the Slim feels "heavy"  ...is this the kind of publicity Dyson wants from a [powerful and popular] consumer magazine?

 I believe the Slim is Dyson's most creative, only because I have never seen anything that predates/is similar to this ball set up. I have seen ball canisters in the patent office and ball toys and Sir James said the Ball Barrow was a DC15 inspiration, etc., but I've never seen a ball/Slim set up before I learned of the DC18.  I was terribly disappointed with the build on the DC21 - great idea, poor execution.  I need to ice my wrist after vacuuming.  Our housekeeper hates my DC21 and reminds me of it every time I pull it out.   :)

DIB


DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294


Reply #462   Jan 13, 2009 6:42 pm
Model2 wrote:
I was never keen on the DC03's performance (poor brush-roll, only 90aw), although it holds the distinction of being the only Dyson upright so far to be able to lie flat for cleaning under furniture. Nice quiet, lightweight cleaners, though, and very pleasant to use.

If there's one thing I'd like to see Dyson working on, it's their brush-rolls. I like the ones in the DC07 and DC14 Origin models - round cross-section, and stiffer bristles than the clutch-control models. I find they do a far better job of cleaning than the cork-screw version. 


I totally agree with you Model2.  Yes the performance of the DC03 was not brilliant, airwatts\suction was poor!  I think it was one of the best earlier Dyson's Uprights to offer light weight, slim, brush bar on/off clutch and being able to lie flat  (even hang up on a wall for storage!) and have 2 HEPA Filters as standard!  Using some of Dyson's latest technology now the DC03 could be a very good model for Dyson!

You have one thing in common with me with regards to the Dyson's Upright Vaccums, that is the brush bar\roll!  It's something I've been wondering for a few years now and wish they would improve on it!!   The DC01 had a decent brush bar\roll, triple helix of bristles performance was good.  Never tried the DC04\DC07 and DC14 standard (clutchless) models that have the standard brush bar\roll like the DC01!  Sounds like they do a better job, that does not surprise me though!   I'm hoping the DC27 has a simular setup! 

Another thing I don't understand with Dyson is why they are so sparing with the bristles on their brush bar\rolls, so spaced out, unlike the standard clutchless models there are slightly fuller I believe!  This can't help with pickup performance!   The DC25 brush bar\roll is very good as I've tried one but could still be improved.

DC18

This message was modified Jan 13, 2009 by DC18
Model2


~ It Beats...as it Sweeps...as it Cleans ~

Location: England
Joined: Jan 8, 2009
Points: 155


Reply #463   Jan 13, 2009 6:46 pm
DysonInventsBig wrote:
... That's been my view too and for some time.

re: blade drag
 I do not own a DC18 and only experimented with one at my home for a little while. The blade simply does what it is designed to do, that is... scrape. On my Berber carpet it was noticeable and measurable. With the vacuum running and with the blade removed the vacuum measured about 1/2 of a pound easier to push/pull (if I remember correctly). In my opinion this COULD OF been easily avoided (engineered better) and when Which Magazine announces - the Slim feels "heavy"  ...is this the kind of publicity Dyson wants from a [powerful and popular] consumer magazine?

 I believe the Slim is Dyson's most creative, only because I have never seen anything that predates/is similar to this ball set up. I have seen ball canisters in the patent office and ball toys and Sir James said the Ball Barrow was a DC15 inspiration, etc., but I've never seen a ball/Slim set up before I learned of the DC18.  I was terribly disappointed with the build on the DC21 - great idea, poor execution.  I need to ice my wrist after vacuuming.  Our housekeeper hates my DC21 and reminds me of it every time I pull it out.   :)

DIB



With the DC24 and DC25, the blade remains, but it's made of a thinner material. Also, rather than one solid strip, it's sliced into little tabs, so it offers less resistance whilst performing the same function. Perhaps the blade on the DC18 could be similarly modified to improve performance? That said, I don't fancy taking a craft-knife to it when I don't really find it to cause a problem in the first place!

The first true steerable cleaners were the Air-Way uprights of the 1920s (of which the DC18 is VERY strongly reminiscent; I'd be shocked if the designers hadn't had them in mind when they created it!), and the Apex Model 120/Vactric Airflo of the mid-1930s. Vactric charmingly called the feature the 'Witchway Handle'! From 1908 - 1922, Hoover offered models which had ordinary front wheels and rear swivel-castors, all running on ball-bearings, which achieved a similar effect. So it's not really a new idea, it's just repackaged for the new century. 'Putting a new spin on an old idea'!

~ However Clean - Hoover Cleaner ~
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894


Reply #464   Jan 14, 2009 6:42 am
Model2 wrote:

The first true steerable cleaners were the Air-Way uprights of the 1920s (of which the DC18 is VERY strongly reminiscent; I'd be shocked if the designers hadn't had them in mind when they created it!), and the Apex Model 120/Vactric Airflo of the mid-1930s. Vactric charmingly called the feature the 'Witchway Handle'! From 1908 - 1922, Hoover offered models which had ordinary front wheels and rear swivel-castors, all running on ball-bearings, which achieved a similar effect. So it's not really a new idea, it's just repackaged for the new century. 'Putting a new spin on an old idea'!


http://www.abbysguide.com/vacuum/discussions/33916-0-1.html

Hello Model2:

I posted a link to another thread on this site.  Your post above caught my attention WRT another topic on this site for antique vacuums.  I thought perhaps you may know the answer to a question that Venson and I are mulling over regarding the production and sales of Westinghouse uprights in the UK prior to and during WW11.  If you peruse the thread quickly, you'll get the jist of our dilemma.  We could not decide/determine with certainty whether the pictured metal Westinghouse upright [circa 1930's] is UK made or imported from the USA.  What do think/say?

BTW, while I remotely see a connection to the early Air Way stick uprights [late 20's/early 30's] to the concept of steering [wheels on the A-W straight suction nozzle head while other uprights of the day were using revolving brushes], I would tend more to compare dyson's ball/slim to the GE upright of the early 60's with the oblong wheel.  As you may know, the GE upright was a consumer dud despite its worthiness as a lightweight upright.  I can't speak to the Apex//HOOVER you cite which in the USA [especially HOOVER] used stationary wheels, usually of the same size for the years you say, on stationary axles for both front and rear.  

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jan 14, 2009 by CarmineD
Model2


~ It Beats...as it Sweeps...as it Cleans ~

Location: England
Joined: Jan 8, 2009
Points: 155


Reply #465   Jan 14, 2009 9:31 am
CarmineD wrote:
http://www.abbysguide.com/vacuum/discussions/33916-0-1.html

Hello Model2:

I posted a link to another thread on this site.  Your post above caught my attention WRT another topic on this site for antique vacuums.  I thought perhaps you may know the answer to a question that Venson and I are mulling over regarding the production and sales of Westinghouse uprights in the UK prior to and during WW11.  If you peruse the thread quickly, you'll get the jist of our dilemma.  We could not decide/determine with certainty whether the pictured metal Westinghouse upright [circa 1930's] is UK made or imported from the USA.  What would you say?

Carmine D.



I'll go out on a limb and say that in my opinion, the former owner of the collection probably imported it himself purely as a collectible. I've done the same myself, I have 5 vintage cleaners in my possession which I've aquired from the US.

If Westinghouse was sold in Britain, whether the cleaners were produced here or in the US, it must have been in very small numbers. I've never come across one, or indeed, any reference to the Westinghouse brand being available in the UK. Sorry I can't be of more help, I'm afraid my vintage expertise revolves largely around the Hoover Company!

The Westinghouse cleaner in question looks interesting - the cord-winder seems to be an adaptation of the one Singer introduced on their R-series. Pity it lacks a bag!

~ However Clean - Hoover Cleaner ~
Model2


~ It Beats...as it Sweeps...as it Cleans ~

Location: England
Joined: Jan 8, 2009
Points: 155


Reply #466   Jan 14, 2009 9:59 am
CarmineD wrote:
http://www.abbysguide.com/vacuum/discussions/33916-0-1.html

Hello Model2:

I posted a link to another thread on this site.  Your post above caught my attention WRT another topic on this site for antique vacuums.  I thought perhaps you may know the answer to a question that Venson and I are mulling over regarding the production and sales of Westinghouse uprights in the UK prior to and during WW11.  If you peruse the thread quickly, you'll get the jist of our dilemma.  We could not decide/determine with certainty whether the pictured metal Westinghouse upright [circa 1930's] is UK made or imported from the USA.  What do think/say?

BTW, while I remotely see a connection to the early Air Way stick uprights [late 20's/early 30's] to the concept of steering [wheels on the A-W straight suction nozzle head while other uprights of the day were using revolving brushes], I would tend more to compare dyson's ball/slim to the GE upright of the early 60's with the oblong wheel.  As you may know, the GE upright was a consumer dud despite its worthiness as a lightweight upright.  I can't speak to the Apex//HOOVER you cite which in the USA [especially HOOVER] used stationary wheels, usually of the same size for the years you say, on stationary axles for both front and rear.  

Carmine D.



Hoover wasn't officially available in the UK until 1919, athough history records sales made to Scotland in 1912.

The American Hoover models I refer to which included the rear swivel casters and front stationary wheels include the original 1908 Model O, Model 18, Model O Improved, Model 1, Model 1 Improved, Model 2 etc. etc. All of the larger uprights, in fact. They would have been just too heavy to manoeuver without the castors! The last models to use the 'steerable' castors were the Senior Model 101, and Junior Model 198 - both of which ceased production in 1922. The smaller, less expensive Hoover models generally used the standard front and rear wheels you mentioned.

The Apex/Vactric models I mentioned employed a swivelling handle joint, which allowed the user to steer the cleaner exactly as modern equivalents do. The handle joint could also be locked in place if desired, to facilitate use as a standard 'backwards-and-forwards' upright.

~ However Clean - Hoover Cleaner ~
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894


Reply #467   Jan 14, 2009 12:39 pm
Thanks for your opinion on the WESTINGHOUSE.

WRT ball bearings and wheels, the only I recall on HOOVER uprights are the 90,91, 913: The heavy Commercials which were made, as you might well know, in Great Britain and exported to the USA.

Carmine D.

Model2


~ It Beats...as it Sweeps...as it Cleans ~

Location: England
Joined: Jan 8, 2009
Points: 155


Reply #468   Jan 14, 2009 8:04 pm
Earlier Hoover commercial models 961, 972, 900 and 925 had ball-bearing wheels as well. One of the few Hoover commercial model not to have ball-bearing wheels was UK Model 960, which didn't require them; it was far lighter than the machines which came before and after it. We didn't get the Model 90-style of machine in the UK until 1949, but versions of it were on sale into the early 1990s! Coincidentally, early Model 91s were actually built in North Canton, but production switched to the UK very soon after production began. I know the later machines in the series were UK-built also, but I couldn't say for sure about Model 90.

~ However Clean - Hoover Cleaner ~
Venson


Joined: Jul 23, 2007
Points: 1900


Reply #469   Jan 15, 2009 12:12 pm
CarmineD wrote:

BTW, while I remotely see a connection to the early Air Way stick uprights [late 20's/early 30's] to the concept of steering [wheels on the A-W straight suction nozzle head while other uprights of the day were using revolving brushes], I would tend more to compare dyson's ball/slim to the GE upright of the early 60's with the oblong wheel.  As you may know, the GE upright was a consumer dud despite its worthiness as a lightweight upright.   . . .

Carmine D.


Hi Carmine,

There was a model of the Air-Way upright that had a revolving brush.  It was for a intent and purpose a stick vac with power nozzle.  This was way, way back in the day and I have always wondered why it took so long, maybe twenty or so years later, for the power nozzle to come to mind again.

As for the GE upright, sandalwood beige beauty that it was, it employed a floating brushroll to compensate for it lack of a carpet height adjustment -- same as Singer's oldie.  I think here too there wasn't enough of a downward force to make even a revolving brush of much worth cleaning-wise.  The beauty of it was that it was sleek, low design and that it could be hung flat on a wall for storage.  Do you remember the model number?

Thanks,

Venson
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894


Reply #470   Jan 15, 2009 1:45 pm
Venson wrote:
Hi Carmine,


As for the GE upright, sandalwood beige beauty that it was, it employed a floating brushroll to compensate for it lack of a carpet height adjustment -- same as Singer's oldie.  I think here too there wasn't enough of a downward force to make even a revolving brush of much worth cleaning-wise.  The beauty of it was that it was sleek, low design and that it could be hung flat on a wall for storage.  Do you remember the model number?

Thanks,

Venson



Hello Venson:

Yes, I believe it to be the V12 U1, if memory serves me correctly. 

Carmine D.

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