Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

I got two "new" (used, but modern instead of vintage) machines this week.  They are both machines that I have been wanting to add to my collection, and that I have been wanting to use as a (cat owning mind you) consumer.

The first is an Oreck upright.  I know Riccar/Simplicity make a better machine with the Supralite/Freedom, but they are expensive and not easily found used.  The only things I had that could be considred light weight hitherto were my Dirt Devil Broom Vac (which I ADORE despite the way I feel bout dirt devil), and my Vorwerk upright.  I spent 50 dollars on the Oreck.  Not terrible as far as used Orecks on Craig's List in my area are going for.  I wanted the base model because I do not like loop style handles and I DO like foot switches opposed to handle switches.  Mine must be a step up from the base model, because it does have a headlight.  Actually, mine is the XL 100C from 1984, so it's kind of vintage (born the year after me, guess I'm vintage too!)... but still very similar to the machines produced today. 

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As a consumer, there are some things about it I don't like.  Orecks are known for not being powerful, and for being loud.  This one is quite loud, but not as loud as bad reviews lead me to fear.  One thing I don't like is the hanging hole in the back of the handle.  It just isn't comfortable to feel when pushing the machine.  Another thing is that the wheels are too small... this thing would be a nightmare on thick carpet!  Another thing I don't like is that it requires a screwdriver to replace the belt.  And FIVE (not two, but FIVE) screws have to be removed to change the belt!   I was amazed to see how simple everything was inside when I changed the belt!  ALSO...  when they say you can vacuum under a bed with an Oreck, that isn't true.  It will fit under a bed, but when it is flat, the machine raises up off the floor and does not make contact with the carpet!  They leave that little detail out in their advertising.  Just ilke when they say that the Oreck has automatic height adjustment.  What is really has is NO height adjustment.... but they aren't the only company to make that claim.  There is no air filtration other than the bag, but that doesn't bother me at all.  It may bother people who have been convinced vacuums are machines that need to have the world HEPA filter printed in their bodies instead of machines to clean carpet.  Newer models do have better filtration in their outer bag...this one actually has a vinyl bag!!!

Onto the things I do like... and there aren't many, but I'm still glad to have the machine as a collector.  It picks up the dirt!  Even powder was taken up with only one pass.  It wisks cat hair and litter away in no time flat.  I also like the fact that the headlight shines onto the floor and not the vacuum itself.  I don't need a headlight, but a light and a ballooning bag are signs of "life" in a vacuum for me as a collector.  I also like the fact that there is onboard belt and bag storage (though they forgot to include a scredriver holder).   And that there are NO on board tools to get in the way and fall off!  It seems to groom my one medium pile area rug nicely, though the rest of my carpet is flat /low pile so I can't tell for sure. 

I do have some questions though.  Firstly, is this vacuum supposed to have a quick release cord?  My upper cord hook has two srew holes, but only one screw is in it.  It looks like the previous owner actually removed one of the screws that should be in the cord hook to have a "make shift" quick release cord.  Also, why did Oreck put two separate wheels on each side of the back?  Why didn't they just use one big wheel on each side?  Do two separate ones offer some kind of benefit?


The next machine I got just yesterday at a flea market.  It is a Miele power nozzle canister that I paid a grand total of (drumroll please) 15 dollars for!  I almost had a heart attack when I saw the price on this thing.  It was sitting in the grass by an antiques table.  I plugged it in and both the machine and power nozzle ran fine.  I didn't even hesitate.  I almost offered the lady 100 dollars because I felt like I was stealing it for 15!  LOL.  This is the Miele Plus S251 with the SEB213 power nozzle.  What a nice machine!  It is still a current model and goes for 569 new!

There are a few things I don't like about it.  Many of these things are fixed on the top of the line models, but this is a low-mid range Miele, so I guess they had to leave some features off so the high end machines sell better.  Firstly, this machine doesn't come with a dusting brush!  No, mine isn't missing it... this model simply doesn't include one!  An almost 600 dollar vacuum doesn't have a dusting brush, come now!  And, my other machine's dusting brushes will not fit on it (I've tried Kirby and Dyson heretofore).  Also, the cord for the power nozzle isn't direct connect.  It is a separate wire that gets in the way and must be unplugged when one needs to use different attachments, or change the bag.  Though, I could just remove the hose to change the bag.  Because it isn't direct connect, the power nozzle isn't quick release.  I guess we're spoiled by high end Kenmores/Panisonics.  Also, there is no height adjustment on the power nozzle.  Another annoying thing is that the power nozzle does not stand up on its own accord.  I guess that's OK, because most of the ones that do fall over anyway, and they have integrated a power nozzle parking system into the machine.

There are two things that might bother some people that I actually like.  One is that the power switch is on the machine itself and not on the handle (just the brush roll on/off on handle).  Also, it does not have a gas pump or loop style handle.  I don't like those! 

What I do like about it.  Well, it's beautiful, powerful, and very quiet.  The parts fit together nicely.  The adjustable suction is really nice.  The retractable cord is awesome.  I've had machines were you actually had to help the cord back in.  The Miele just slurps the cord in quickly, all the way, every time.  I LOVE the 360 degree swivel wheels.  I have a small apartment with a lot of tight spaces, and I don't like using canisters because I have to turn the whole machine around all the time when the back wheels are fixed.  I can push this thing any which way and it just glides wonderfully!  Though that's annoying when trying to pull the cord out.  I love the park and storage transport clips that hold the power nozzle/wand assembly onto the machine so it doesn't fall down.  I love the rubber wheels on hard floors.  I love the fact that I finally own a Miele and got it for the price I did!

I do have a question about it though... The power nozzle does have a cogged belt.  But, I don't see an overload reset button.  What if I suck up my cat and the brush roll stalls?  Is it as simple as turning the machine on and back off again?  Also, the metal strip under the hand grip... is that to reduce static electricity?  How does that work? 

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I think I'm going to post flyers in my apartment complex offering a free vacuuming service just so I can play with my machines more... though I do feel a little guilty for forsaking my vintage machines for such modern ones lately.  Maybe my tastes are changing.  Well... thanks for reading this and for any responses.

I'm trying to post pics... html codes don't seem to work.  Not sure how to do it on this forum, as this my first time attempting pics here

Hello Bobby:

Nice price on the XL Vintage at $50.  To answer your questions: No quick release.  Stationary cord hooks.  On the later ORECKS, there are two wide wheels in the rear and 2 narrow wheels in front.  With a good belt, ORECK will maneuver over high carpets nicely.  You can tell when the belt is working fine.  In the upright position and running, it will go across the barefloor by its own momentum at a quick pace.  BTW, I'm not keen on the foot switch.  I'd prefer a switch that is activated by releasing the handle. 

I don't like the hole in the handle grip either.  It's there for hanging obviously and some users do.  I like the straight handle grip too over the ergonomic grip.  I have one screw to remove the belt plate [XL Classic made 2007] and can replace the belt in less than a minute.  I don't find it loud.  Nor does my lab who usually follows me around the house while I'm vacuuming.  She's an ORECK fan just like my Wife.

Sounds like you have the vacuum collector's bug.  God bless you!  Enjoy ORECK-ing!

Carmine D.

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

Bobby: Did you get this date off the ORECK's serial number/model label plate?

Carmine D.

Well...  I always have had the collector's bug.  At around only 30 machines, my collection is microscopic compared to some others.  Someone on another vacuum forum told me the machine was from 84, and 84 are the first two digits of the serial number.  While I don't love the Oreck, I am glad to have it in my collection.  I need to take it over to some friend's houses who have high pile carpet to see how it grooms.  I still wonder why they used two separate wheels on each side of the back... just doesn't make sense to me! 

Now the Miele... I can't stop thinking about and looking at.  I can't believe I actually own one!  What an awesome machine.  Man if only I had more carpet!

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

At 30 vintage vacuums, I'd say you are well on your way to big time collector. 

On my ORECK XL Classic, the serial number-model plate has the following:  DATE: 07038C.  My understanding is that is the date of production: March 8, 2007 and C signifies Classic. 

Carmine D.

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

Hi Bobby:

Excellent price.  Even at $100, if complete and working well, it's a steal.  The MIELE S 251 has been around for quite awhile hence the "old-fashioned" features.  Tho, I'm surprised that there is no review[s] on it posted here.  Other MIELE canns but not the S251.  Consumer Reports has been testing and reporting on it for years.  Originally the S251 sold for about $450 new.  Your right that today the MSRP is $569.  Instead of going down in price, it goes up!  Yes, it does come with a dusting brush, and smooth floor brush, mid-size electric power head, two non-electric wands [hence the power nozzle cord], and combo upholstery nozzle/crevice tool.  This MIELE model has evolved to be the MIELE entry level canister for cleaning medium to thick pile wall-to-wall.  IMMER BESSER has been the MIELE logo for over 100 years, tho vacuums are probably 80 plus years old.  German phrase meaning "Forever better" and MIELE fits the description.  Well known in the industry for lasting 20 years plus and its vacuums are passed from generation to generation. 

The company is in its fourth generation of family ownership, family financed and family operated.  MIELE employs over 15,000 people in over 38 countries around the world.  MIELE is the family name and appears on all its appliances!

IMHO, if any vacuum maker combines both beauty and excellence in operation it is and always has been MIELE. Stunning design, dramatic colors, useful features, best filtration, and legendary durability.  Some say its not about the quality of the raw materials but the engineering.  Truly, MIELE epitomizes this with precision engineering.  Like all the other vacuums on the market, MIELE uses high-impact ABS plastic.  But MIELE and yours are made and tested to last at least 20 years.

MIELE-on!

Here is the number of MIELE in Boca Raton Florida, 800-220-1744 ext 5751 to call and ask about the round brush.  Also its Headquarters in Princeton NJ: 800-843-7231.

Carmine D.

Thanks, Carmine.  The Miele is truly heaven.  I have a question about the Oreck though.  It still has the original brushroll on it!  I want to get a new one for it... do they all take the same one, or do I need to look for one specifically for an older machine? 

Thanks

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

Hello Bobby:

Your XL 100C is standard brush roll.  Only a few exceptions to the standard ORECK brush roll.

Here is a site [not endorsing] with the specifics:

http://www.totalvac.com/accessory/parts/O-7520201.html

Carmine D.

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

Bobby:

WRT your above questions, the vacuum has a thermal shut down feature in the event you stall the brush roll and/or the vacuum senses an overload.

I believe the metal is for reinforcement.

Carmine D.

I can't believe no one else has responded to this thread... I know many people don't like Oreck, but I thought I'd get some comments on the Miele.  Thank you for your advice though.

I found a brush roll for about 20 buck on Ebay.  Is there a difference between the one with the red bristles and the one with the black bristles?  Will a new one have siffer bristles than mine?  Will I need to keep my end caps and felt pads from the old brush roll, or should a new one come with its own (I'll buy a new one instead of a used one).  I put the Oreck on my kitchen floor with a new belt and it didn't move at all.  Then I tried to suck up some powder and I had to go over it a few times instead of just once.  So, that's why I think I need a new brush roll.  Plus, I think I made a mistake.  I put a few drops of sewing machine oil in the end caps, and now when I turn the machine off, the brush roll makes an awful sound as it winds down.  Should they not be oiled?

Hello Bobby:

The ORECK brush roll has bearing settings for "new" and "old."  These settings should match on both ends before installing and connecting the belt.  Now they should both be set on the "old" setting.  No oil needed.  Especially no oil on the surface that the belt rides on.  Remove all the oil if there is any on the surface where the belt rides.  Brush roll, if it's genuine ORECK which I recommend using, will be complete with bearing ends and brush roll plates.  Red/black bristles are probably insignificant.  Sounds like you need a new brush roll if it's not cascading across the floor by its own momentum in the upright and on position.

Keep me posted on both new additions to your collection.

Carmine D.

Vacuumfreeeke wrote: Nothing unusual about this.  Poor suction is typical of Oreck.  Some preach about Oreck's merits, however they shy away from attempting real world tests.  I bet it would choke on baking soda.

Hello HARDSELL. HAPPY NEW YEAR

Considering this ORECK vacuum is 25 years old, cost $50, and is most likely in need of a new brush roll, I'd say a few passes to pick up everything is doing well.  At least it's not blowing it all over the floor as some claim.  BTW, I know a certain brand name which even when new takes a few passes to pick up all the kapoc on rugs.  And it costs $400 plus.  But seems this brand name gets a pass from you.  Not the old vintage ORECK in need of a new brush roll, which you hold to a higher standard than even your own brand new fave brand vacuum.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

And a HAPPY NEW YEAR to you also Carmine.

Now, please share all of your knowledge with a novice.  We have an Oreck with a new belt and bag.  Presumably no obstructions and It will not pick up powder.  Forget that the brush may or not be working properly.  The brush can and should be turned off on better machines so no big deal if it isn't working.  Who gives a $#%* if it is 1 year or 25 years old?  No reason not to pick up powder.  BTW, we are discussing a simple test on a real product that should be easily picked up on a hard surface.  The old bissel rotating brooms would do this easily. 

I still leave the kapoc in my life preservers.  My home is not so filthy that anything in or on the carpet resembles kapoc.  How does one live in such filth if it does resemble kapoc?

Hello HARDSELL:

You're no novice. But you fell asleep at the wheel with the new ORECK.  Are you still asleep?  Or just dreaming?  Simple answer my friend.  The brush roll for the ORECK is an integral part of the suction power created on both floors and carpets for cleaning and pick up.  Hence the reason it does not have/require a brush roll shut off.  This particular 25 year old ORECK is probably 3.5 and/or 4 AMPS.  Current full size uprights are 12 amps.  The equalizer for the ORECK upright is and always has been the brush roll which revolves at a speed of over 6500 RPM.  Stroke of ORECK genius.  He recognized over 45 years ago that a brush roll is as important to cleaning as suction power.  Maybe more so.  Some still don't get it!

Pet hair my friend is how homes get so filthy that vacuum makers/sellers use kapoc for demo purposes.  Over 74 million 4 legged furry friends natiowide.  During peak shedding periods, the homes of these pets are in dire need of good vacuums which make the EXCELLENT grade in a single pass.  Kapoc is the ideal substitute for pet hair for several reasons.  In a kapoc rug cleaning match between the vintage 25 year old ORECK [with a new bag, belt and brush] and a new dyson DC07/14, dysons choke.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

I found the below from May 2008.  Notice the red statements in today's post and in your older one.  You seem to be contradicting yourself from a few months back.  Yeah, I know.  Carmine shuffle.  Looks like the genius's low amperage wasn't as good as you previously stated.  What was that about OL Dave being green and the others catching up.  Sounds as if Oreck is trying to catch up with increased amps.  You are both red with embarassment.

CarmineD wrote:

Thank you HARDSELL.  Proves my point then and now.  ORECK's stroke of genius over 45 years ago when some vacuum makers today still don't get it.  It's not about AMPS, air-watts and suction power alone for rug cleaning.  It's about the brush roll too for effective rug cleaning and grooming.  The proof is in the kapoc test.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:

Wow.  You blamed low amps on the 25 year old Oreck's inability to suck up powder.  Then you state that modern Orecks have higher amp motors to level the playing field. Almost a year ago you said Oreck used low amps and others didn't get it.  Now Oreck increases amps.  What were the others not getting?

We were discussing hard surface cleaning and not carpet.  Stay alert and on topic.  We all know about your pay toiled shuffle.

Hello HARDSELL:

Here's the point [again]:  It's not about AMPS alone.  It's not about suction alone.  It's the brush roll too EVEN for barefloor cleaning.  HELLO HS!  Are you awake yet?  

Add a new $22 ORECK brush roll to the 25 year old XL C100, which a user can install in a few minutes, and the vintage ORECK performs as well [if not better] on floors/rugs as your fave brand new DC07 and/or DC14 costing 10 times more with 12 AMPS.  Easy as 1-2-3 to understand.  The new ORECK-s are only 4 AMPS.  But, the new ORECK-s [save a few] use the exact same brush roll now as then.  Less my friend is better.  It's as true 45 years ago, as 25 years ago as today.  That's what they mean when they say "classic" and "icon" in reference to ORECK-s and Dave.  True for all times and ages.

Carmine D.

Well, I got a new brushroll for the Oreck for around 20 bucks.  It has the red bristles, and is supposed to come with the end caps.  Wonder how this will affect the perfermance if at all. I will try the test again and see if the results differ.

Excellent.  Just a reminder to set both end caps on the "new" position when you install.  Please let me know if the vintage ORECK cascades across the barefloor by its own momentum when on and in the upright position.

Carmine D.

Bobby:

I'm curious about the condition of the vintage ORECK cord.  In the pic, it looks almost new.  I have always been impressed with the quality of the thick guage of the ORECK cord and the molded plug.  What's the vintage ORECK cord/plug like after 25 years?

Carmine D.

The cord is fine... no cuts or gashes at all.  It isn't even dirty like the textured cord on my Sanitaire.  There's one stain on it, but the entire length of cord is pretty white.  I just can't believe Oreck wouldn't build a quick release cord into their machine. 

I actually didn't want a vintage Oreck... the one in the picture looks modern.  At least the colors do to me.  If I had known that this vacuum was only 1 year younger than me, I don't think I'd have gotten it.  I want vintage for some things (Hoover Concept/Convertible/Celebrity, Eureka upright, Electrolux Canister), but I wanted a newer Oreck.  At least now I know how to tell the date from the serial number.... but I shan't be buying another one as I'm not quite head over hills for this one.  I thought the brushroll might come today (it's only coming from GA to FL), but it didn't so I don't get to test it out yet!   

Vacuumfreeeke wrote: Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

CarmineD wrote:

Carmine claims easy to vacuum under beds.  He does not tell that the vacuum can't pick up in the prone position.

He also claims over 500 repair centers nationwide.  Wouldn't you know it.  Never one where you live.  Reminds me of his story about free notrogen in tires at Costco.  Try finding a store if you are 25 miles away from a major city (or on the wrong side of town in a major city).

Hello Bobby:

Thanks for the info on the ORECK.  My ORECK purchased in April 2007 is identical to yours in color and style save a white banner with the ORECK name on the front outer bag and a white bumper.  Also, edge cleaners.  Not sure about yours.  My ORECK has no light like yours.  Also, my new model ORECK uses two twist off/on connections for the lower handle [plastic] and head nozzle neck to access the dirt path to clear obstructions.  And my ORECK has a bag dock staging clamp about 6 inches square.  This makes the bag installation easier and keeps the top of the outer bag upright and sag free.  These latter 2 features are not on your vintage ORECK.

Hello HS:  My ORECK XL Classic works fine under our beds and furniture.  I have 3 ORECK Clean Home Centers within a 25 mile radius.  Pass one every day.    Could easily pass 2 if I wanted and not go out of my way. 

Funny you should mention COSTCO and nitrogen filled tires.  I went to the local COSTCO the other day and bought a VIZIO TV [not to replace the LG.  But in addition to the LG].   While I was there I had the old 99 truck tires checked.  A gentleman was there with a 2004 Nissan Quest.  I asked him how he liked using nitrogen filled tires and why.  He said the Nissan van has a feature that warns him when the tires are inflated at different pressures.  With air in the tires, even when new, he constantly got different tire readings and vehicle warnings about checking the tire pressures.  Nissan told him to switch to nitrogen in the tires.  He did and the problem was solved. 

Carmine D.

Well, I didn't stop at an Oreck store... I got my brushroll on Ebay for a better price.  But, my Miele bags got to FL faster from Wisconson than my Oreck brushroll from GA...  Maybe tomorrow...

Carmine, I read that all Orecks after 97 came with the docking station.... I don't care about a docking station (though I wish the outer bag didn't sag), but I wanted a newer Oreck with a few less miles on it. 

Did they fix the newer Orecks so that when you lay them completely flat the head doesn't rise off the floor?  I've seen some Epinions and Amazon reviews from other people who have the same problem.  Maybe they go flat under really high beds!  The power head doesn't have a low profile either, which surprises me for sucha  small machine.  Maybe I'll stop by a store and try a new one out... but they are so pushy there!  Always trying to sell a "complete home care system"... maybe I'll come home with an apple green Oreck.  LOL...  I know they take trade ins of older Orecks for some kind of "customer loyalty" program. 

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

Hello Bobby:

Don't let the ORECK handle grip touch the rug/floor.  Keep/hold the handle grip off the rug/floor about 3 and/or 4 inches as you're vacuuming under beds.  This ensures the vacuum nozzle head is lying flat to the surface and the brush roll/suction can perform properly.  I vacuum from two sides of the beds.  I vacuum half the area under the bed on each side.  Works fine for mine.

Carmine D.

If I hold the handle high enough to make the nozzle flat on the floor, the inflated bag won't let the machine fit under the bed!  Thank goodness I don't care if there are dust bunnies there! 

Hi Bobby:

Ah so!  You have a metal bed frame?  

Carmine D.

Yeah... did I forget to mention that?  LOL

The brushroll came today. The generic aftermarket one is actually better than the original! The pulley on it is metal instead of plastic. It does clean powder off a bare floor in one pass, but still takes two or three on flat "kitchen" carpet. The vacuum does not move by itself on a bare floor... it moves a little bit due to vibration, but isn't pulled by the brushroll. But the machine is only 2.8 amps (how can it be so loud)?!

Hi Bobby:

Wonderful.  Glad to hear you are pleased with the results of the powder test.   New brushroll makes the difference.  A testament to your 25 year old vintage ORECK with only 2.8 AMPS.  My ORECK is 4 AMPS and apparently that is enough of a difference to allow it to cascade effortlessly over the barefloors in the upright and on position.  

I suspect ORECK would love to have yours on a trade.  I think you can easily double your money on a trade-in toward a new and/or slightly used [demo] ORECK.  Personally, I'd hold on to the vintage ORECK.  BTW, my friend DIB posted a pic of a new ORECK devouring coffee grinds.  On a DC27 thread.  The new ORECK looks alot like yours. 

As for the noise, try not listening so hard!  ;-)  Enjoy ORECK-ing

Carmine D.

Vacuumfreeeke wrote:

No reason to, Bobby.  Add wheels to the metal legs if you can and/or the furniture pads under the legs.  This might give you just enough clearance that together with the new ORECK brush roll will let you vacuum up those dust bunnies [in one pass].

Carmine D.