Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

... Not sure if Americans realize Hoover is no longer an American brand.  Our jobs have gone to China, our manufacturing has gone to China, our dollars are wired to China and our brands are going over to China.  Hoover USA celebrated their 100th year in business...  in China.

TTI has filed a European patent - for a low & high efficiency cyclonic (bin and tapered filters/separators) utility vacuum.

http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?KC=A1&date=20081127&NR=2008144376A1&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=WO&FT=D

Hello DIB:

It appears from the background that the derivative patent for this filing originated in the US over a year ago:

"Cross Reference to Related Applications

[0001] This application claims priority from U.S. Provisional Patent Application Serial No. 60/930,266 filed May 15, 2007; and U.S. Provisional Patent Application Serial No. 60/932,298 filed July 26, 2007. Each provisional patent application is expressly incorporated herein by reference, in its entirety."

Interesting description of the product for the usage application.  I suspect the product [heretofore not launched by any other bagless vacuum maker] will be produced and marketed in Europe for export to other countries like Japan for example. 

BTW, I find your thread subject title interesting too.  Why?  I was recently gifted a Black and Decker "auto-wrench" with the country of origin cited on the packaging as:  Made in China by a Black and Decker owned and operated plant.

Carmine D.

Hey Carmine,

A provisional patent (U.S.) was filed.

I loath the idea of iconic and historic American brands, jobs and profits going to China.  Red purchased American trust buy purchasing the Hoover name.

I left the comment box (post) empty for now.

DIB

It's called globalization. 

It's a very sad and tragic commentary on business globalization that some companies find it necessary and desirable to charge exorbitant prices for products made with foreign "slave" labor.  Their owners and managements have guiltless consciences.  Sales of these products result in profits that line the pockets of greedy people by exploiting foreign workers.   These are sins against humanity that cry out to God.    

Carmine D.

The filing is longer than the Pope's Motu Proprio issued November 30, 2007 on the Latin Rite Mass.  Nevertheless, I excerpted the crux of the usage apllication for the patent filing and posted here:

[0004] Utility vacuum cleaners, also known as wet/dry vacuums, are commonly employed in the basements, garages and/or workshops for relatively heavy-duty cleaning tasks. Typical prior art utility vacuum cleaners have a sizeable holding receptacle or tank and an electric motor and fan assembly mounted along its top. In many such units, a cylindrical, pleated disposable filter is fitted onto a perforated cylindrical tube, which is an air intake of a motor housing. A nozzle, connected by a hose to the receptacle serves to draw materials into the receptacle. However, after vacuuming under harsh conditions, the filter can become quickly obstructed by debris or the like. This reduces air flow and impedes the effectiveness of the wet/dry vacuum cleaner, necessitating frequent manual cleaning of the surface of the filter, or its replacement with a new one. [0005] Accordingly, the present disclosure pertains to a new and improved wet/dry vacuum cleaner having a dual stage cyclonic air flow design which overcomes certain difficulties with the prior art designs while providing better and more advantageous overall results.

As we know from the current wet/dry combination vacuums, there are preliminary steps that must be taken before, during and after usage to prepare for one mode of cleaning [wet] vice another [dry].  Like removal of the paper filter for wet applications and frequent cleaning of the foam filter during wet usage.  This patented product appears from the above description to remove these steps.  Much like the HOOVER Floormate can be used in both wet and dry pick up modes without any preparatory steps save a change of switch setting.  I suspect the patent incorporates design art from the Floormate with dual cyclonic stages in a canister vacuum.  Pictures are provided but unavailable on the site for viewing.  Depending on the price, this can be a desirable floorcare product.  Not surprising either if produced in China by TTI Floorcare and/or by partnership between TTI Floorcare and HOOVER UK [a reason for the European patent filing].  The latter ties directly into a previous theme of companies working in concert in hard economic times to survive while maintaining productivity.

Carmine D.

Carmine,  I agree, its absolutely disgusting that these firms are exploiting people through 'slave labour' but its happening for years now and its a shame that nothing can be done about it.  

Kinda going off topic but, I have a british made Dyson which is ok in its quality, through this has something to do with the design, rather than where it came from,  I have Malaysian made Dyson which has been reliable for the past 6 years.  Goods that come from these parts of the world are just as good and the people who put the hard work into what they do, really deserve more than what they given!    It all goes to the greedy bosses behind the firms.

Its the way for all and I can see that all goods will be made in the Far East soon, washing machines etc may well be MADE IN CHINA.

T.T.I. owns HOOVER,ROYAL,DIRT DEVIL,REGINA, VAX, that we know about,Even the big name brands you know the ones. even use chinese parts, some USA companies that are parts distributors even have plants overseas and have the parts shipped back here and assembled by part time low skilled labor. This has been going on for a long time.
So who do you point a finger at? The manufactures,the wholesalers,the middle men,maybe a good place to start is the out of whack ceo's and company perks,HOW ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT AND THE NEW WORLD ORDER....


MOLE

mole wrote:

How about a boycott by vacuum pros like you.  Our govenment can't do it all.

Just kidding MOLE.  HAVE A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

The description page was long.  So long I could not bring myself to read it.

I doubt if TTI would work with/help Candy, but who knows.

I am not familiar with the Floormate wet/dry switch over, how does it work?

Putting a cyclonic shop vacuum together is a no-brainer (there's plenty of real estate to place the various components).  The pat diagrams look to be using 4 short tapered cyclones, I was a bit surprised.  Lots of pre-filter cleaning?

I believe TTI makes Craftsmen products, perhaps this vac will find sanctuary there.  Just a guess.


Anyone,

TTI’s (North American?) CEO interviewed on Bloomberg.
http://www.ttigroup.com/en/our_brands/media_gallery

DIB

FYI:  There are technical difficulties with the Bloomberg interview with Joe Galli.  

Hello DIB:

The HOOVER Floormate has been on the market since the early 2000's in its current form/design.  It can be used on all hard floor coverings and venues with applicable cleaning solvents.  Originally retailed for $229 but prices now, even with the new and improved versions, range from $80 to $200.  Excellent product.  I own and use one myself and have for several years. 

HOOVER originally launched the product as an electric  floorwasher in the late 50's with several iterations primarily with color differences.  There was no market for it.  And HOOVER scrubbed it after several years.  Reintroduced by HOOVER early this decade with an improved version.  It has been a huge success both sales and performance wise.   It uses a single path and filter for wet and dry pickup with the same bin collection for both.  Filters run $6-$10 each depending on retailer.  I changed the filter once in 2 years [it's washable and reusable].  Not because it was dirty.  I used the Floormate to pick up glass shards from a candle holder that my granddaughter knocked off the table.  After I picked up all the broken glass, I replaced the filter.  The only step needed by the user for wet/dry usage is a flick of the dial switch.  It even dries floors by suctioning up over 95 percent of the wash water and evaporating floor wetness with heated air.  One of HSN's most popular floorcare products in sales.  I recall on one HSN TV sale day several years ago that over 10,000 were sold.  This number was the rule rather than the exception.  My caveat is that I can't verify/support these numbers with accurate data save HSN's say so. 

I recommend watching a Floormate demo if you haven't already.  I enjoy using the product and seeing the results.  It does exactly what it claims to do.   The proof is self-evident.  And whenever I use on our ceramic tile floors, it's a sure way to get into the good graces of my dear Wife.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

DIB:  Not sure of your point.  Do consumers care?  Save old timers like me, none probably do.  So thank you for your concern for my feelings.  Whoever these unnamed CEO's are that you allude to, at least they did not grovel to get a bail out from the US taxpayers for their ineptitude.  Instead, true to the tenets of capitalism, they [whoever you mean] sold the HOOVER brand/products on the world market to the highest bidder.  Are you surprised it was a China based country?  Look at all the electronics makers and their countries of origin.  All paths lead to the east.

Whether HOOVER can resurrect itself or not depends on the new owners and management not the old.  Time will tell.  So far, the products I see and own under the TTI tutalege are impressive.   

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote: Carmine,

There is no switching, save the brushes turning off.

I’ve actually watched the Floormate demoed on HSN in the past.  It's one of the few Hoover demos given by their rep, Julie Truster where she is not flat out lying to sell.  Hoover does not have to lie whey they innovate products people want to buy (I have not used the product, but have heard the scrubbing was weak).

DIB

Strange that Oreck an american company can open the clean home stores, yet TTI at the same time closes Hoover Service Centers with I'm assuming now lower production costs. Mexican and Chinese made products VS. American. I guess one way to think about this is to use the same old 30 year design that is extreme simplicity to increase production and lower the time to piece, or to increase the complexity and effectiveness through technology while lowering labor costs (overseas) (TTI). The result a similar market approach.  Funny I think we / they are all in the same bed... Capitalism.. Yet if Oreck can maintain till 2010, it has great positioning.  Going to read Marx now bye..

(perhaps not perfectly stated but close.)

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

Maybe I was using to broad-a-brush in describing “Americans”.  Many do care, [it looks like] most do not.  Certainly those that don’t care are getting an education during these economic and jobless times.


DIB

Hello HOOVERGROOVER:

The Oreck business model is essentially the original HOOVER business model.  Make products in the USA with a network of sanctioned stores owned, operated, and/or licensed by the maker to sell, service and carry genuine replacement parts for the brand's products.  ORECK is also a "niche" vacuum brand with the lightweight upright market.  It has expanded into other floorcare venues with canisters, sticks, hand vacuums, waxers, and rug cleaners but only as an accomodation to ORECK buyers/customers.  Not to mass market. 

ORECK has literally weathered bad economic times in the past, most recently Katrina [August 2005] which was a direct hit on it's New Orleans plant.  ORECK's ability to maintain normal operations without stumbling and relocating operations to Tennessee so quickly are testaments to its business model.  It will have a tough time in the current economic environment and Dave is getting old.  2010 is not that far away and his family members have/will take over the bulk of the day to day business.  But the business was Dave's and his youngins may not feel the same way about business as he does.

The weakness with the ORECK business model [or its strength depending on your perspective] is the limitations of a "niche" product maker for sales and profits.  Dave and his family members are not billionaires.  They're successful business people living simple comfortable lives.

Carmine D. 

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

WRT education for those that do care, and the China HOOVER connection, you might recall [maybe not] that HOOVER contracted with TTI in 2004/2005 to produce the FUSION and FUSION Plus bagless uprights for $100-$130.  These were VERY popular sellers among the retailers who carried them.  Even displacing more expensive bagless brands and models for shelf space and future sales.   It was a reason in part that one poster here opined that TTI might be a likely suitor for HOOVER.  To his credit, he was "spot on" as they say in the UK.  In 2007, after Whirlpool acquired HOOVER with its MAYTAG buyout, WP decided to divest vacuums from its venue.  WP sold HOOVER to TTI which already owned the VAX, DIRT DEVIL and ROYAL vacuum brands. 

BTW, DIB, do you know what country produces the all metal ROYAL-s?  Is it China or the USA?

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

As opposed to what?  A bucket and mop?  Swiffer? 

It's a misconception to judge the Floormate solely on scrubbing alone.  It's a floor washer and dryer.  It comes with two sets of brushes, one slightly more aggressive than the other.  And with my particular Floormate model, a hose, extension wands and array of brush attachments for hard to reach areas.  The brush attachments are not revolving brushes.  Just straight suction tools with bristles.  The cleaning power comes as much from the cleaning solutions as the scrub brushes.  IMHO. 

I have mohawk sealed ceramic tiles that cover about 75 percent of my home.  I use the softest brushes with warm tap water and no solutions.  Works great especially in the tile seams which maintain their original new luster w/o yellowing and discoloration from dirt build up.  A testament to the HOOVER Floormate's cleaning performance since I have an English yellow lab and 3 grand daughters who like to scuff and mark the floors.

Carmine D.

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

This vac uses air driven brushes with little down force, does it not?  This wet/vac has a fan base for sure, but there are those who have textured floors and/or grout lines that complain in their reviews.

I like the vac (I think).  Your sealed tile and grout is the primary reason your floors release stains as good as they do.

DIB

Hello DIB:

Correct on both accounts:  Air driven brushes and my tile is sealed.  But, I sealed the floors and granite counter tops before moving in per the contractor's instructions.  I have neighbors who sealed the floors too, but don't have/use the Floormate regularly like me.  Their tiles and grout seams have discolored in just a few years.  Looks terrible. 

My only criticism of the Floormate product is the vacuum's weak suction in the dry cleaning mode.  Inevitably, if I use the dry cleaning feature for vacuuming, there is some dust and debris [like pet hair] in the dirty wet tank pick up.  If I use my ORECK to vacuum the floors first before using the Floormate for washing/drying, nothing is in the wet dirty tank except liquid!

The Floormate IMHO is an amazing floorcare product.  All houses with substantial hard floor coverings should have and use one.

Carmine D.