Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

Here is the link to the UK Advertising Standards Authority, about Vax's "No Loss of Suction" claim.

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Public/TF_ADJ_45100.htm

mole wrote:
Mole,

What are you going to do when Communist TTI clones your best moving and/or profitable vacuums too?        DIB

DysonInventsBig wrote:

Hello DIB:

I admire your enthusiam and support for all things dyson.  But........

First, dyson explicitly presented its argument to the ASA that VAX was copying its claim.  It was part and parcel of dyson's complaint.  ASA ruled against dyson for VAX saying no exclusive dyson right exists and no comparison by VAX to dyson was made.  VAX went to the CAP of ASA and specifically asked for advertising guidance so as not to violate any proprietary rights/misrepresent the claim.  Then VAX followed the CAP advice.  What was dyson thinking?

Second, had dyson inscribed the mantra "No Loss of Suction" on all its products, say on the soleplate, AND filed complaints against other vacuum brands using the same/similar claims, it would have had a better chance to prevail against VAX.  Even without having filed/received a copyright for the slogan.  Perhaps, the $100 Million and/or a portion thereof would have been better spent if dyson had.  Tho, I suspect dyson's request for a trademark for the claim would have been nixed.

Third, success in making money is never an indication of one's intelligence.  A false corrollary would be that more money means more intelligence.  It's just not so.  A recent case is relevant and appropo.  According to the latest winners of the Nobel Prize for Science, a non-descript financially strapped gent, who lost his job as a scientist for a leading firm, and now makes $10 an hour as a cabbie, played a key role in the discovery and invention.  Tho the gentleman, a publicly proclaimed genius, was never recognized/mentioned and did not make the trip to Stockholm with the others.  The cabbie's boss says he is the most overqualified cabbie he's ever met and under his employ!  Is the cabbie gent upset for not being recognized?  Not at all.  Quite the contrary.  He's elated he doesn't have to don a tux and make the trip!  Now, that's an indication of intelligence!

Carmine D.

  

Venson wrote:

Hi Venson:

BINGO! 

I agree and I think the ASA saw through dyson's motives just like you did.  The same can be said of dyson's recent complaint against Electrolux's Infinity, another loss handed to dyson by the ASA.  A bagged contender, the Infinity, vice dyson's bagless DC14.  No trade/copyright infringements at all were in question.  But the results of one cleaning test by two products [Electrolux and dyson] with the Infinity prevailing handily over the dyson.  And the Infinity had a hopelessly clogged full bag too.  [MOLE, you're right again!]  A feeble attempt by dyson in using the ASA to kill off a less expensive vacuum competitor on its home turf.  What was dyson thinking?

Carmine D.

Venson wrote:

Hello Venson:

Thanks for posting the Web Sites.  Interesting to see VAX branded floorcare products in the UK that are identical to those that carry the HOOVER name plate in the USA.  No doubt the reason in part HOOVER sourced its FUSION and FUSION Plus in 2005 [predecessor of the MACH-s] to VAX and TTI bought and merged HOOVER into its fold with VAX and others. 

I'm amazed at the low prices for the bagless dyson knock-offs.  A good deal of dyson's market share decline [from 2004 to now] in the UK is a direct result of these less expensive bagless models.  I suspect the same is true in the USA and other countries.  Especially with the global economy tanking.  People are digging in for long protracted hard times ahead.  Dyson wasn't smart enough to foresee the less expensive knock-offs on the horizon and the hard times ahead. 

I wonder if some of dyson's recent complaints with the ASA, tho an excercise in futility, are desperate acts for its own lack of economic and business foresight.  Maybe dyson should hire a good macro/micro economist.

Carmine D.

Hi Carmine.

Thanks, Its the same old [timing is everything] Dyson got the timing right,by accident or not who knows, Am i supposed to be shocked at D.I.B.S. quote about T.T.I making and taking the profit from the dealers?. I have already prepared about 3 or 4 years ago.

It pays to know the history of this business,or the evolutions as you like to quote,Been there done that and you and I know how this business works,After DYSONS off E-BAY they will be gone from the U.S.A. Hows the Dyson factory service center going? havnt heard much about them lately,are they still in CHICAGO. How about IONA dysons evil cloned twin are they still in BUFFALO.

How long do you think it will take Sir JIMMY to sell out to the communists[T.T.I.] i give him less than 1 year....

DONT TAZE ME DUDE,I'M telling the truth...........

MOLE

mole wrote:
Mole,

I know that you know your business.  I do question you (and others) cheerleading the profit gutting, innovative slothful and communist sponsored TTI for going after a person or a manufacturer you loath (Dyson), when it can be your products and good paying American jobs next (loss of jobs or pay cuts).  Can you explain otherwise?

I want an answer from Mole only please.


DIB

CarmineD wrote:
Carmine,

I am familiar with brilliant people who are not financially successful.  George Washington Carver and Nikoli Tesla are such two.  They had no personal wealth, yet their God given ideas brought super wealth and gain to the world.  Those who choose to leave nothing of any real value behind (doing Gods work), well the Book reserves no praise for such as these.

I enjoy posting the “B” word and for many reasons.  Demonstrating a contrast; weekend quarterbacks who look backward with 20/20 vision, versus visionaries who look forward with faith that’s always followed by profits (good and honest gains, both directly and indirectly).

I will adjust my dollar value I put on Dyson’s creation; “No Loss of Suction”. - Perhaps up to $500m invested overall.

Those who bring something from nothing should fight for what began with them, always!


DIB

mole wrote:

Hi MOLE:

You're right again.

Dyson was floundering for years since 1979 with the 5,174 dyson prototypes.  It's was the royalties and compensatory fees [over one million $] from dyson's former American licensee for patent infringement after the breakup of their business relationship, that provided the seed money to build dyson's Malmesbury UK plant in 1992.  Not profits from vacuum sales.

Then, dyson's compensatory fees from the legal suit with HOOVER for patent right infringement [$6.3 MILLION] provided the seed money to build the Malay plant in 2001 and produce/export vacuums to 50 countries worldwide.   Not profits from vacuum sales.

BEST BUY's management convinced dyson to launch in the USA in April 2002.  Dyson wanted to postpone the USA market by several years but instead listened to BB and launched early.  Smart move by dyson to follow BB's advice.  Lucky too, dyson did.  It would have missed the vacuum money train from 2004-2006. 

Of course, the interviews and press releases with all the accolades and praise never tell the story within the story.  Readers including dyson enjoy the simple story of "small time household inventor makes it big."  

Carmine D.

Hi D.I.B.

How many ways can i say the same thing.How much profit is enough,25,35,75,100,200,500,% markup,its also known that any company that advertises the way shall we call them the big 3,oreck,dyson,electroluxA.B.
Like to price gouge their dealer network, I have a clue what it costs them to manufacture each of their products,[trust me its lower than you think]

Not only do they offer coop advertising,but have a lot of corporate management to TAKE CARE OF,including keeping the bankers happy.The dealers have revolted already by offering the middlemen or distributors what they are willing to pay for a product,if you dont accept our CASH offer then you can eat the stuff,Ask wal-mart,ask sears,they will dictate to these companies what they want to pay and the pot better be sweet and stacked for the box stores.

Now is not a good time for any manufacturer to dictate how much they should sell a product for,who can sell it,how many they have to buy, has to be bought through their authorized distributors[i.e. middle men],

Weather you like it or not the time has come for the dealers to take back what is really their business,i dont know if you noticed it lately but the vacuum cleaner business is falling off the cliff,The only thing dyson has going for him is that its privately held as far as i know,With all the money James is worth dont you think its time to give some of it back to the businesses that put him there?.

MOLE