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DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454


Original Message   Jun 28, 2008 12:41 am

Dyson is in the news frequently and so a dedicated thread.

.

This message was modified Aug 2, 2008 by DysonInventsBig



Replies: 186 - 195 of 624Next page of topicsPreviousNextNext page of topicsAllView as Outline
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293


Reply #186   Jul 6, 2008 4:27 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hey Dusty:

My thoughts are threefold:  First:  ORECK doesn't make the written claim that it cleans excellent on ALL surfaces, like dyson does in its product literature for customers.  ALL surfaces, not just carpets.   That's false.  Why? The dyson claim implies ALL carpets.  It doesn't.  

Dyson made no false claims.  Only a moron would thinlk all carpets. 

Second:  ORECK gives a 30 day free in home trial period.  If not satisfied, send it back free of any charges.  ORECK pays the shipping back. 

Buy the Dyson at a BB and you can do tghe same thing.  Oreck is not unique here.

Finally, third:  ORECK, even the XL21 Titanium, will not work on 'really long shag style of carpet.'  I suspect most owners of these carpets know that they need a vacuum with a manual rug height adjustment.  They don't need to be told.

Why did you make this statement if you think most customers know that they need the manual adjustment?  Now you say they don't need to be told.  Another reversal on your part.

MOLE gave you the reason.  The majority of vacuum repairs come in with problems due to brush roll and belt.  Hence, the users set their vacuums to the lowest rug height to get better performance as the vacuums' service degrades.  The reason to set it higher is to make it easier to push and pull over carpets IF THE VACUUMS ARE WORKING PROPERLY.  Repairs are not!

Carmine D.

How prevalent is 'really long shag style carpet' in USA households?  Worthy of a mention on a Web Site?  No.  Certainly worthy to a buyer face to face in the store.  

See if this is correct please.  Dyson should say not effective on all carpet types and Oreck should not say this.  Does anyone see another of Carmine's double standards?

My home's highest carpet heights are medium pile wool loop with upgrade backing.  Also lower thicknesses including indoor/outdoor.  Dyson DC07 pink struck out on my wool medium loop.  How prevalent is medium pile loop with backing in USA households?  Pretty much so I'd say.  More so than really long shag in my opinion. 

It seems that the big difference in my carpet and yours is the type of material.  No Dyson ever gave a problem on mine.  I have used the DC07 on thick wool carpet at a relatives home and again no problem.

Dyson didn't work even with the dyson work arounds which the tech line spouted off like routine clockwork:  To remove the permanent gaskets from the permanent soleplate.  They encountered this problem long before I called. 

I didn't mention this, but its worthy of mention.  Before the dyson help line told me to take it back, it won't work, I was told to use the hose and a barefloor brush to vacuum the rugs.  I laughed even more than removing the permanent gaskets.  Spouted off like it was routine SOP.

Ops, there goes another dyson refurb! 

ORECK works fine for the last year.  Easy to push and pull.  A delight to use.  Goes over the barefloors, ceramic tile, by itself with no effort.  Literally.  When in the upright position, it moves across the floor by itself.  $150, 8 pounds and works great.  DC07 pink cost me $250 with all the store give backs.  Dead in the water from day one and still.  Medium pile wool loop. 

Really, a vacuum that goes over hard surfaces with ease.  Wonders never cease.  I never realized that Oreck was self propelled.  How else could it go by itself?  It is no surprise that your electric broom glides over carpet.  No suction to pull it into the carpet.

What are your thoughts on the reason dyson doesn't qualify its statement for DC07 and DC14 for ALL carpets? 

Sounds like the copied you and Oreck by not revealing the whole truth.

Carmine D.

DysonInventsBig


Location: USA
Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Points: 1454


Reply #187   Jul 6, 2008 4:45 pm
dusty wrote:
Hi DIB,

Add the Sebo G3 to the list of manual height adjusted units. It's basically a commercial version of the X4 series.  Odd about the problem of motor failure..I think I've only ever replaced one of the servo units in all the time we've carried Sebo.

Dusty

Dusty,

 

Thanks for the info.  I think Sebo simply put in some “background” for one of the reasons for their patent/invention, keeping costs down was mentioned too.  To be more specific Sebo did not say their motor or servos were a problem, only in general.  I take it you have not seen a non-motored height adjustment either?        DIB

 

Here is the patent:  http://www.google.com/patents?id=Y9mBAAAAEBAJ&dq=7,266,861


dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264


Reply #188   Jul 6, 2008 4:51 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hey Dusty:

My thoughts are threefold:  First:  ORECK doesn't make the written claim that it cleans excellent on ALL surfaces, like dyson does in its product literature for customers.  ALL surfaces, not just carpets.   That's false.  Why? The dyson claim implies ALL carpets.  It doesn't.  

Second:  ORECK gives a 30 day free in home trial period.  If not satisfied, send it back free of any charges.  ORECK pays the shipping back. 

Finally, third:  ORECK, even the XL21 Titanium, will not work on 'really long shag style of carpet.'  I suspect most owners of these carpets know that they need a vacuum with a manual rug height adjustment.  They don't need to be told.

How prevalent is 'really long shag style carpet' in USA households?  Worthy of a mention on a Web Site?  No.  Certainly worthy to a buyer face to face in the store.  

My home's highest carpet heights are medium pile wool loop with upgrade backing.  Also lower thicknesses including indoor/outdoor.  Dyson DC07 pink struck out on my wool medium loop.  How prevalent is medium pile loop with backing in USA households?  Pretty much so I'd say.  More so than really long shag in my opinion. 

Dyson didn't work even with the dyson work arounds which the tech line spouted off like routine clockwork:  To remove the permanent gaskets from the permanent soleplate.  They encountered this problem long before I called. 

I didn't mention this, but its worthy of mention.  Before the dyson help line told me to take it back, it won't work, I was told to use the hose and a barefloor brush to vacuum the rugs.  I laughed even more than removing the permanent gaskets.  Spouted off like it was routine SOP.

Ops, there goes another dyson refurb! 

ORECK works fine for the last year.  Easy to push and pull.  A delight to use.  Goes over the barefloors, ceramic tile, by itself with no effort.  Literally.  When in the upright position, it moves across the floor by itself.  $150, 8 pounds and works great.  DC07 pink cost me $250 with all the store give backs.  Dead in the water from day one and still.  Medium pile wool loop. 

What are your thoughts on the reason dyson doesn't qualify its statement for DC07 and DC14 for ALL carpets? 

Carmine D.


Thanks for finally answering a question. Though I have noticed that once again the whole conversation has turned away from your original inaccurate comments without any hint of admittance that you were incorrect in your statement. Nice one.

On your second point, good for Oreck.  Everybody should give a 30 day money back policy.  We do at our store and you'll find most department stores do too.  The fact is that no matter what is claimed all houses, applications, carpets, and floors are different. You never really know if any product will work in your environment until you get it home.

On your third point, you give to much credit to the customer. Do you believe that the majority of people that shop for vacuums in a box store really know what they want or need?  I've stood in vacuum aisles at Wal-Mart and watched people choose.  They go for color, amps, bagless. 

On your customer service rep at Dyson, he /she is no different than any other rep.  They all have pat answers to questions in the hopes of saving a sale and keeping the customer happy.  When all else fails, return the product.

You are always quick to mention Dyson refurbs.  What happens to all the Orecks that get sent back under free trial? 

As to your last question, I believe I answered that in the last post.  The Dyson statement was "cleans all surfaces, not just carpets".  I read that as it works all around the home, not just on carpets.  Use it on your floor, dust with it, clean the car...whatever. Nowhere does it say it works on "ALL" carpets.

Dusty
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894


Reply #189   Jul 6, 2008 6:24 pm
Hello Dusty:

What happens to the ORECK-S that get returned within the 30 days? Well good buddy, I don't know.  Not a clue.  But I will ask my ORECK sources and post.

What I do know with absolute certainty is this:  I bought an ORECK XL Classic and use it daily.  Getting ready to right now.  I was so impressed and pleased I bought 3 more and will buy more no doubt.  I gifted the 3 to family members who use them almost exclusively for their rugs and floors.  Tho they have other vacuums.  They are completely as satisfied with their ORECK-s as I am. 

I have several very dear and close friends for many years who also own and use ORECK-S.  Old to very new ORECK-s.  They are pleased too. 

I have several neighbors here in LV too who own and use ORECK-s..  The same is true for them.  I know a store owner of a mailing service here in NLV who actually asked his store workers [both men and women] to match a new ORECK against a new dyson DC07.  I posted about it a year before I bought my ORECK.  The winner by unanimous decision after several weeks of use and still:  Yep, the ORECK, hands down, no contest.  Even the store worker who supplied her DC07 for the test, liked the ORECK [purchased by the store owner] better.  BTW, the store owner is a life-long ORECK user.

In my entire life and my 40 plus years of vacuum career, I've known only two dissatisfied ORECK users.  That's HS and MOTOR.  While I don't doubt their opinions, they certainly and unequivocally do not speak for all the ORECK users I know, including myself.  That's what the 30 day free home trial is for.  To weed out the 2 ORECK users that I know in 40 plus years.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264


Reply #190   Jul 6, 2008 6:38 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello Dusty:

What happens to the ORECK-S that get returned within the 30 days? Well good buddy, I don't know.  Not a clue.  But I will ask my ORECK sources and post.

What I do know with absolute certainty is this:  I bought an ORECK XL Classic and use it daily.  Getting ready to right now.  I was so impressed and pleased I bought 3 more and will buy more no doubt.  I gifted the 3 to family members who use them almost exclusively for their rugs and floors.  Tho they have other vacuums.  They are completely as satisfied with their ORECK-s as I am. 

I have several very dear and close friends for many years who also own and use ORECK-S.  Old to very new ORECK-s.  They are pleased too. 

I have several neighbors here in LV too who own and use ORECK-s..  The same is true for them.  I know a store owner of a mailing service here in NLV who actually asked his store workers [both men and women] to match a new ORECK against a new dyson DC07.  I posted about it a year before I bought my ORECK.  The winner by unanimous decision after several weeks of use and still:  Yep, the ORECK, hands down, no contest.  Even the store worker who supplied her DC07 for the test, liked the ORECK [purchased by the store owner] better.  BTW, the store owner is a life-long ORECK user.

In my entire life and my 40 plus years of vacuum career, I've known only two dissatisfied ORECK users.  That's HS and MOTOR.  While I don't doubt their opinions, they certainly and unequivocally do not speak for all the ORECK users I know, including myself.  That's what the 30 day free home trial is for.  To weed out the 2 ORECK users that I know in 40 plus years.

Carmine D.


 Did you ever sell Oreck in your store?  Was there a reason you did or didn't?

Dusty
This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by dusty
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293


Reply #191   Jul 6, 2008 9:22 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello Dusty:

What happens to the ORECK-S that get returned within the 30 days? Well good buddy, I don't know.  Not a clue.  But I will ask my ORECK sources and post.

Most likely Ol Dave cleans em and sells them and includes a free gift. On the othe rhand he may just scrap them as they are useless anyways.

What I do know with absolute certainty is this:  I bought an ORECK XL Classic and use it daily.  Getting ready to right now.  I was so impressed and pleased I bought 3 more and will buy more no doubt.  I gifted the 3 to family members who use them almost exclusively for their rugs and floors.  Tho they have other vacuums.  They are completely as satisfied with their ORECK-s as I am. 

I used my DC07 regularly for three years.  It cleaned so well that there was no need to use it daily.  I have recommended Dyson to many who then purchased them.  Not one is unhappy with their purchase.

How did you explain to then that you were wrong about Hoover being the best and that you should have recommended Oreck way back when.

I have several very dear and close friends for many years who also own and use ORECK-S.  Old to very new ORECK-s.  They are pleased too. 

Likely because they are too weak to use a FULL SIZE vacuum.  Also likely that they do not know the difference in an Oreck and a great vacuum. 

I have several neighbors here in LV too who own and use ORECK-s..  The same is true for them.  I know a store owner of a mailing service here in NLV who actually asked his store workers [both men and women] to match a new ORECK against a new dyson DC07.  I posted about it a year before I bought my ORECK.  The winner by unanimous decision after several weeks of use and still:  Yep, the ORECK, hands down, no contest.  Even the store worker who supplied her DC07 for the test, liked the ORECK [purchased by the store owner] better.  BTW, the store owner is a life-long ORECK user.

Again, likely old and weak neighbors who only want to move the dust around the room.  Can't handle a FULL SIZE vacuum.  We had another regular member on another forum who used Dyson daily in his business.  He even vacuumed sheet rock dust with no problem.  I am sure his Dysons was put to the a more stressful test than the vacuums in a mailing service. 

What did the Oreck owner like better about the Oreck?

In my entire life and my 40 plus years of vacuum career, I've known only two dissatisfied ORECK users.  That's HS and MOTOR.  While I don't doubt their opinions, they certainly and unequivocally do not speak for all the ORECK users I know, including myself.  That's what the 30 day free home trial is for.  To weed out the 2 ORECK users that I know in 40 plus years.

I do not know any dissatisfied Dyson owners.  My step father owns Oreck but actually admitted that it is for the weight only and does not do a very good job.  You ceertainly and unequivocally do not speak for all the Dyson users. I assure you that there are more than two dissatisfied Oreck users.  Read owner/user opinions.

Carmine D.


We have all read this over and over and over and over.  You are happy with your Oreck and I am sure that all are happy for you.  I like Dyson and was very satisfied with my DC07.   Will own another when I choose to purchase.  No need for you to repeat for the umpteenth time about how I sold mine. No need for me to repeat how you bashed Dyson and told all that Hoover was the best.  After you were proven wrong on every account you grasped Oreck.  Glad you like it.

What you say about the Oreck pretty well sums up my same experiences with Dyson. 

YOU HAVE LIED, TWISTED WORDS AND SUBJECT MATTERS, TOLD HALF TRUTHS AND DENIED ALL OF IT.  YOU RUIN EACH THREAD WITH ALL YOUR BASHING.  YOU SOUND LIKE A COMEDIAN WITH STALE JOKES.

NOW, START YOUR OWN ORECK THREAD AND I CAN ALMOST GUARANTEE NO MEMBER WILL MENTION DYSON ON IT BEFORE YOU.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894


Reply #192   Jul 6, 2008 9:37 pm
dusty wrote:
 Did you ever sell Oreck in your store?  Was there a reason you did or didn't?

Dusty



Hello Dusty:

I mentioned before but don't mind again.  Not new ORECK-s.  Tho, I met Dave and had the opportunity if I wanted.  Prince of a man.

Sold ORECK-s used, repaired, and sold parts.  Not a real demand for new ORECK-s at the time.  (1949-1992).  Like now, ORECK is a niche market.   I was authorized as a dealer for sales and service for HOOVER, EUREKA, WESTINGHOUSE and Panasonic.  Space was a premium for me.  I didn't have the room.

If and when a generic lightweight was wanted/needed, one of these above makes/models fit the bill nicely.  If they asked specifically for a new ORECK upright, then I referred them to dealer who was a friend.  I wanted and got nothing for the referrals.  Did the same for new GE's, Kirby-s, Luxes, and Rainbows.  Didn't carry but referred to business friends who did.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jul 6, 2008 by CarmineD
DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294


Reply #193   Jul 8, 2008 4:31 pm
HARDSELL wrote:
My DC07 and DC14 was very to push and pull because the head did not sink into the carpet as you imply.   Never got the ratcheting noise. 

Your case (as are you ) is and odd one.

I've never had any issues with my DC07 with the head sinking into long thick carpet pile nor when I used to use a DC03 (first Dyson to have the brush control switch setup!) and DC04!  I in fact I found it easier to push on long thick pile carpet!

DC18

mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 783


Reply #194   Jul 8, 2008 4:38 pm
DC18, I REALLY DONT BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT, You must of used with the brush off or the belts were broken.............
DC18


Dyson, Sebo and Bissell user

Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Points: 294


Reply #195   Jul 8, 2008 5:05 pm
mole wrote:
DC18, I REALLY DONT BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT, You must of used with the brush off or the belts were broken.............

Well Mole believe it I did say that.  Thats up to you if you choose to believe different.  No, all my Dysons have fully working brush bars, with fully working belts.  No the only time the brush bar goes off is on hard floors!  Brush bar is always ON on carpets.  I know a vast amount of people with Dysons that use them on different flooring and different thickness of carpets with no issue at all.

Like HARDSELL says it's just the odd person that seems to have an issue!  Some people do and some don't have any issues!   Thats like that with most products!

DC18

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