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rjg2


Joined: Feb 17, 2008
Points: 7

Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Original Message   Feb 17, 2008 5:01 am
Hello,

I am looking at purchasing a good vac for pet hair.  I am considering the above 2 or something else.  I prefer a bagless upright that has attachments.  I like the price of the Sanitaire.  I also would like something that is reliable.  Thanks for any help!
This message was modified Feb 17, 2008 by rjg2
Replies: 101 - 110 of 112Next page of topicsPreviousNextNext page of topicsAllView as Outline
dusty


Joined: Feb 8, 2008
Points: 264

Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #101   Jun 10, 2008 4:19 pm
CarmineD wrote:
ACERONE was a small indy dealer exclusively of dyson products.  He eventually could not compete and profit with dyson. Dyson abandoned him for the big box stores.  Just as HOOVER did with its dealers in the 60's.  Much of vacuum industry history is repetitive.  What you are, we once were.  What we are, you will soon be.

I can see where being exclusive to one product can cause problems, be it Dyson or Hoover or whoever.  Our philosophy has always been to concentrate on 3 or 4 main lines and shift them around as the market dictates.  At one time we did large numbers with Sebo, then more stores started to carry it so we scaled back and worked heavier with Riccar.  We don't drop lines, we always support what we have sold. I can relate to what ACERONE went thru, I've had friends in this business go down the same road.  Loyalty from the big companies is a thing of the past, now we look after ourselves and sell what the market is asking for.  It's the only way we've found to keep up with the box stores.

Dusty
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 783

Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #102   Jun 10, 2008 5:53 pm
CarmineD wrote:

ACERONE was a small indy dealer exclusively of dyson products.  He eventually could not compete and profit with dyson. Dyson abandoned him for the big box stores.  Just as HOOVER did with its dealers in the 60's.  Much of vacuum industry history is repetitive.  What you are, we once were.  What we are, you will soon be.

Carmine D.








Carmine,I just want to thank you,for trying to lead the dealers down the right path,There is no substitute for experience,Now if you could only get the ROOKIES to listen.
Trust me nothing different is going on in this industry that has not happened since the beginning of this business, You are right HOOVER started it all. Maybe a little justice has been dealt back to them[its just now just another vacuum cleaner sold at wal-mart and sears with out the label people would just think it's made by Hambilton beach or some other company bases out of the AFRICAN congo.......

MOLE
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #103   Jun 11, 2008 8:54 am
Hello MOLE et al:

Your analogy of customers' actions for dyson repair and service [in/out of warranty] is very telling.  The most costly and fatal error dyson made in the USA is not following the tried and tested ORECK model.  Readers of previous vacuum Forums recall posters like GANDOLF, RAT, and SEVERUS [on this site], recommending the ORECK model for dyson customer support and service. 

It's too late in the USA.  Mr. Dyson pulled out $289 MILLION in retained earnings in a late night Board Meeting on March 31, 2008.  Apparently, he wants his legacy to be the engineering school for high school aged students.  And his concern was avoiding an 18 percent capital gains.  Long term dyson customer service and support in bricks and mortar stores was not even a distant 2nd and 3rd choice on his agenda.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jun 11, 2008 by CarmineD
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 783

Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #104   Jun 11, 2008 9:42 am
Hi Carmine,

Heres another point of intrest when selling off dyson customers,I tell the customer it was just a big smoke and mirror game.

They took just one very small aspect of how a vacuum cleaner works,exploited it with marketing and hype made the public buy into it as something new,took the money and ran away.

Heres a tip for the real vac and sew professionals, tell your customers this little story,what exactly does does root 8,level 3 cyclones have to do with picking up filth and dirt out of your carpeting and flooring,let them think on it for a minute,and you will see the blank stare on their face,and the blank is the right reaction because cyclones have nothing to do with carpet cleaning.

You Can add DYSON to the list of mission accoplished..........

MOLE

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #105   Jun 11, 2008 1:19 pm
Hello MOLE:

Well spoken.  Not only did the unknowing public buy into the dyson myth, but some supposed well repspected vacuum professionals too [well respected in their own minds].  You know them from posting on here and other vacuum sites.  They long since changed their names on here.  Gee, I wonder why? 

These psuedo pros fell for the dyson hype and myth too [rookies].   I can understand the public, but the professionals?  Shame on them.  The same psuedo vacuum  pros defended the puny dyson brush bars too.  They said brush agitation wasn't important for carpet cleaning with the 270 dyson air watts.  Even resurrected the old vacuum industry myth that brush roll agitation wore out carpets.  Vacuum history repeating itself.  Remember in the 50's when Electrolux and Air-Way door to door sales people said the same about uprights and HOOVER in particular.  Then they came out with power nozzles for carpet cleaning. 

Been there, saw that, know that.  

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jun 11, 2008 by CarmineD
CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #106   Jun 11, 2008 4:58 pm
HARDSELL wrote:
If you really want a vacuum that cleans better than the Bissell,  and if you can afford it,  Buy Dyson.   I have used both and in my home the 3 year old Dyson outcleaned the new Bissell.



Hello HARDSELL:

Interesting with all you posted here, you didn't mention [post above] that you bought a  DC14 and returned it because you were dissatisfied with it.   Did you forget?

HARDSELL wrote:

Carmine,

For as long as I can remember I have been the type to constantly try "something new".  That is how I ended up with the Dyson, the Royal and the Kirby.  Years ago I bought a Rainbow and gifted my Electrolux to my daughter.

In the process of trying new products I cull those that are unsatisfactory.  That is why I returned the likes of Kenmore, Panasonic and Oreck. 

Then you didn't mention you bought and used a BISSELL.  Did you forget?  Or is that like posting for 3 years that you owned a HOOVER WT bagless and speaking negatively about it, then finanly saying it was a HOOVER FUSION?   Forget again?

HARDSELL wrote:

Carmine,

Read the bold type above.   I used these for the length (or less) of the trial period only. They were not satisfactory so I returned them. 

1. I finally used a DC07.  Liked it and kept for about 3 years.  During that time I had some carpet removed and installed wood floors.  The carpet was in the highest trafficked area of my home and was about 7 years old.  The flooring installer couldn't believe the cleanliness of the removed carpet.  You will recall that during this time I had a Hoover Fusion for several months.  Sold it because I thought the 07 was better.

2.  I sold the DC07 after 3 years of use and bought the Royal. No problems with the Dyson.  I was just in the mood for a change.  One reason for buying the Royal was to see if there was any truth to your and other reports that independent stores offer better brands and service.  The dealer is relatively new and is unlike all that I have visited in the past.  Facility was clean and well stocked. Salesman seemed to be honest.  Have not dealt with service so I can't comment  Some brands he sells are Miele, Royal and Sanitaire.  I was told by the salesman that the Royal would perform as good as the others. 

3. I think you already know the story, however I will repeat.  At the end of last year Sears had a promotion of 20% (could have been 15%, not positive) off fo items purchased on a Sears card.  I called the Royal dealer to inquire about trading for a Dyson. He wanted more than I was wiling to give.   I then purchased the DC14 from Sears.  I did not like the 14 as much as the 07 so I returned it at end of trial period.    

4.  Early 2008 door bell rings.  I am told that I can get a free carpet shampoo in my living room.  Solicitor did not mention Kirby.  When I asked if he was attempting to sell vacuums he replied "NO'.  I knew what was coming at the end.  I have lots of free time so I agreed to the demo.  Solicitor went to his vehicle and came back with another person to do the shampooing. Solicitor left.  I was told to vacuum the carpet before he shampooed. While I was vacuuming the salesman (posing as a shampooer) began to assemble his product.  After I vacuumed he took a Kirby with his clear attachment and a filter and proceeded to vacuum.  He vacuumed for a while and showed me the minute amount of dirt that the Royal left behind.  I had not told him that I had been using the DC14 for a couple of weeks.  Next trick is to take the filters and see how many the Kirby will hold against the sole plate before losing suction.  Next try same on the Royal.  No contest, Kirby won.  I could see the thrill in his eyes.  I asked if the same would happen with a Dyson and he said yes.  I then brought out the Dyson DC14.  You could see his enthusiasm drop when the Dyson held as many as his Kirby.  Long story short I got the Kirby for less than $800 including tax.

I wish that the Oreck performed to my total expectation, however it doesn't.  I like the light weight, nimbleness in maneuvering and it leaves the carpet liiking well groomed.  I dislike its cost, having to have a seperate vac for hose use and I never found evidence that it removed the proper amount of dirt.  Perhaps the XL21 could have picked up more dirt if I had not already kept my carpet exceptionally clean with the DC07.

I suppose that I am doomed to buy and try.  However, I can't buy just because something is made in the USA.  I also can't justify a purchase solely because the owner is a good fella or because he served in the military.  If anyone uses this criteria alone the only candidate for president is John McCain and the others should be disqualified.

Sorry for the lenght of my response.  I just want to bring this to closure.  On second thought I have only left room for a thousand more questions. 

What did Shakespeare say?  My what a web of deception mortals weave when they begin to deceive.  Looks like it caught up with you.

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jun 11, 2008 by CarmineD
mole


.

Location: earth
Joined: Sep 30, 2007
Points: 783

Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #107   Jun 11, 2008 6:46 pm
CarmineD wrote:
Hello MOLE:

Well spoken.  Not only did the unknowing public buy into the dyson myth, but some supposed well repspected vacuum professionals too [well respected in their own minds].  You know them from posting on here and other vacuum sites.  They long since changed their names on here.  Gee, I wonder why? 

These psuedo pros fell for the dyson hype and myth too [rookies].   I can understand the public, but the professionals?  Shame on them.  The same psuedo vacuum  pros defended the puny dyson brush bars too.  They said brush agitation wasn't important for carpet cleaning with the 270 dyson air watts.  Even resurrected the old vacuum industry myth that brush roll agitation wore out carpets.  Vacuum history repeating itself.  Remember in the 50's when Electrolux and Air-Way door to door sales people said the same about uprights and HOOVER in particular.  Then they came out with power nozzles for carpet cleaning. 

Been there, saw that, know that.  

Carmine D.


Hi Carmine,yes i well remember those claims, about how the HOOVER beater bar wore the wood off a pencil,and the pitch that went with it, if it took the wood off a pencil,imagine what it must be doing to your carpet?.
And the most famous line of all you buy your carpeting by the yard and throw it away by the pound.[if you use anything but our vacuum,filterqueen,compact and even electrolux,airway,used this line.
The one that really sticks in my mind is ELECTROLUX for years bashed uprights then all of a sudden in 1978 made one,

I asked the customer all the time do you really think HOOVER or EUREKA would make a vacuum that would destroy your carpets the answer 100% of the time was NO.
I can go on for hours about this stuff,but i'll stop here............

MOLE
HARDSELL


Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Points: 1293

Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #108   Jun 11, 2008 6:49 pm
HARDSELL wrote:
If you really want a vacuum that cleans better than the Bissell,  and if you can afford it,  Buy Dyson.   I have used both and in my home the 3 year old Dyson outcleaned the new Bissell.



Hello HARDSELL:

Interesting with all you posted here, you didn't mention [post above] that you bought a  DC14 and returned it because you were dissatisfied with it.   Did you forget?

No memory loss here.  I like the 07 better than the 14.  I like either better than the Bissell. 

HARDSELL wrote:

Carmine,

For as long as I can remember I have been the type to constantly try "something new".  That is how I ended up with the Dyson, the Royal and the Kirby.  Years ago I bought a Rainbow and gifted my Electrolux to my daughter.

In the process of trying new products I cull those that are unsatisfactory.  That is why I returned the likes of Kenmore, Panasonic and Oreck. 

Then you didn't mention you bought and used a BISSELL.  Did you forget?  Or is that like posting for 3 years that you owned a HOOVER WT bagless and speaking negatively about it, then finanly saying it was a HOOVER FUSION?   Forget again?

Again Carmine you need to read.  I said the likes of.  Not the only ones that were returned.  The Bissell did better than the Oreck since you bring it up.   I owned a WT bagged self propelled for a few years (not sure exactly how long).  I inherired a bagless POS Hoover about 3 years ago.  Probably used it 3 times and spent hours cleaning the screen and pleated filter.  Pure junk.  I bought a Fusion out of curosity.  Better than the other bagless but still not worth keeping.  Your imiganination runs wild when you miss your medications.

HARDSELL wrote:

Carmine,

Read the bold type above.   I used these for the length (or less) of the trial period only. They were not satisfactory so I returned them. 

1. I finally used a DC07.  Liked it and kept for about 3 years.  During that time I had some carpet removed and installed wood floors.  The carpet was in the highest trafficked area of my home and was about 7 years old.  The flooring installer couldn't believe the cleanliness of the removed carpet.  You will recall that during this time I had a Hoover Fusion for several months.  Sold it because I thought the 07 was better.

2.  I sold the DC07 after 3 years of use and bought the Royal. No problems with the Dyson.  I was just in the mood for a change.  One reason for buying the Royal was to see if there was any truth to your and other reports that independent stores offer better brands and service.  The dealer is relatively new and is unlike all that I have visited in the past.  Facility was clean and well stocked. Salesman seemed to be honest.  Have not dealt with service so I can't comment  Some brands he sells are Miele, Royal and Sanitaire.  I was told by the salesman that the Royal would perform as good as the others. 

3. I think you already know the story, however I will repeat.  At the end of last year Sears had a promotion of 20% (could have been 15%, not positive) off fo items purchased on a Sears card.  I called the Royal dealer to inquire about trading for a Dyson. He wanted more than I was wiling to give.   I then purchased the DC14 from Sears.  I did not like the 14 as much as the 07 so I returned it at end of trial period.    

4.  Early 2008 door bell rings.  I am told that I can get a free carpet shampoo in my living room.  Solicitor did not mention Kirby.  When I asked if he was attempting to sell vacuums he replied "NO'.  I knew what was coming at the end.  I have lots of free time so I agreed to the demo.  Solicitor went to his vehicle and came back with another person to do the shampooing. Solicitor left.  I was told to vacuum the carpet before he shampooed. While I was vacuuming the salesman (posing as a shampooer) began to assemble his product.  After I vacuumed he took a Kirby with his clear attachment and a filter and proceeded to vacuum.  He vacuumed for a while and showed me the minute amount of dirt that the Royal left behind.  I had not told him that I had been using the DC14 for a couple of weeks.  Next trick is to take the filters and see how many the Kirby will hold against the sole plate before losing suction.  Next try same on the Royal.  No contest, Kirby won.  I could see the thrill in his eyes.  I asked if the same would happen with a Dyson and he said yes.  I then brought out the Dyson DC14.  You could see his enthusiasm drop when the Dyson held as many as his Kirby.  Long story short I got the Kirby for less than $800 including tax.

I wish that the Oreck performed to my total expectation, however it doesn't.  I like the light weight, nimbleness in maneuvering and it leaves the carpet liiking well groomed.  I dislike its cost, having to have a seperate vac for hose use and I never found evidence that it removed the proper amount of dirt.  Perhaps the XL21 could have picked up more dirt if I had not already kept my carpet exceptionally clean with the DC07.

I suppose that I am doomed to buy and try.  However, I can't buy just because something is made in the USA.  I also can't justify a purchase solely because the owner is a good fella or because he served in the military.  If anyone uses this criteria alone the only candidate for president is John McCain and the others should be disqualified.

Sorry for the lenght of my response.  I just want to bring this to closure.  On second thought I have only left room for a thousand more questions. 

What did Shakespeare say?  My what a web of deception mortals weave when they begin to deceive.  Looks like it caught up with you.

Carmine D.

You have failed again.  I deceived no one.  Can't say the same about you.  Maybe your wife should have run the business back when.  After all she showed you the road to your Oreck.  Now you know why I do not believe the pros like you.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #109   Jun 11, 2008 7:07 pm
Hello HARDSELL:

Let me call upon Shakespeare again:  Me thinks thou dost protest too much. 

Carmine D.

CarmineD


Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Points: 5894

Re: Sanitaire SC5845 Bagless, Dyson DC14 or other Upright
Reply #110   Jun 12, 2008 8:41 am
mole wrote:
Hi Carmine,yes i well remember those claims, about how the HOOVER beater bar wore the wood off a pencil,and the pitch that went with it, if it took the wood off a pencil,imagine what it must be doing to your carpet?.
And the most famous line of all you buy your carpeting by the yard and throw it away by the pound.[if you use anything but our vacuum,filterqueen,compact and even electrolux,airway,used this line.
The one that really sticks in my mind is ELECTROLUX for years bashed uprights then all of a sudden in 1978 made one,

I asked the customer all the time do you really think HOOVER or EUREKA would make a vacuum that would destroy your carpets the answer 100% of the time was NO.
I can go on for hours about this stuff,but i'll stop here............

MOLE



Hello MOLE:

The door to door brands impugned HOOVER so much and so long with these falsehoods [resurrected by the psuedo dyson vacuum pros a half century later to defend the puny dyson brush bar], HOOVER compiled an industry booklet in the 50's.  It contained letters of endorsement from all the major US rug makers attesting and certifying to the excellent performance of the HOOVER brand on rugs.  Green book!  Remember it well. 

Fast forward 50 years later, and the same vacuum industry myth gets spewed again.  This time under the veil of pervasive lawsuits by vacuum users against HOOVER for rug damage.  Remember the poster?  A legend in his own mind.  Trying to defend the indefensible.  A sub standard industry brush roll: The puny dyson brush bar.  What a crock!  What a crock! 

Scare tactics used by psuedo vacuum pros duped by dyson hype and untrue claims.  These so called pros still refuse to accept and tell the truth about dysons.  Why?  Because they were fooled and don't want to admit it. 

Carmine D.

This message was modified Jun 12, 2008 by CarmineD
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