Vacuum Cleaners Discussions

The Dyson DC22 canister was very recently introduced in Japan. I have heard that this will make it to the US market in order to expand their canister range.

Key Features:

-Root Cyclone with Core Separation
-Dyson Digital Motor
-Stowaway Design
-Motorhead
-Pre filter rinse once every seven years

mole wrote:

Well, in the table above, you'll see that Dyson are offering an extended guarantee for folks that choose the digital motor version, so that's one benefit.

The other benefits are harder to quantify. Firstly, one possible disadvantage is that digital motor in previous vacuums is somewhat louder than a standard motor.
The other benefits are of size and weight, plus presumably you don't require a post motor filter? However, these are moot points if they're designing models where the digital motor is available as an option.

M00seUK wrote:
Wow, so a standard carbon-brush motor is offered alongside the new digital motor?  I didn't see that before...I wonder if this will be carried over to the US as well and people will have the option to select the digital motor?  As far as I know there is a post-motor HEPA on the DC22 much like there is on the DC21, although with the digital motor there's really no carbon-brush dust to catch ;-)

Whether or not the motor can be repaired makes me wonder how much stress (and heat) 100,000 RPM will put on the bearings, and how the bearings are made.  No doubt those will go first much like on many other machines.  I hope they at least had the sense to allow the bearings to be replaced...IMO that would be a waste if you had to replace the motor in its entirety.  I wonder how long it will take before Dyson starts using magnetic bearings where there are no rotating parts, and the armature is just held in place by strong magnetic fields.  Now that's a motor that would (theoretically) last a lifetime. 

I don't own one unfortunately, but I've used a 2-speed Rainbow E-series with the "hurricane" motor before which according to what I heard is similar to this.  Except on startup, it doesn't sound any different than a standard motor on high speed, but then again, it's only going about 30,000 RPM, not 100,000!  There's about a 1-second delay right when you flip the switch and the motor comes on, and the sound it makes on startup is quite interesting.  Sort of like an electronic "revving" sound if that makes any sense.  But if you put that one and a machine with a brush-type motor side by side, both on and running, and had someone come in to the room blindfolded, they wouldn't be able to tell the difference. 

I agree with IMacDaddy on what he said about the DC15...a redesign would definitely make a winner there.  From my experience the current DC15 design is very top-heavy and is horrible at bare-floor pickup.  The DC07 and DC14 have quite a few shortcomings and just need to go completely, in my opinion, especially now with the introduction of the DC17, 18, and 21.  With that self-propelled upright and the DC22 added to the model line the gaps would be filled. 

Re:  What’s the real difference between the DDM DC22 vs. carbon motor DC22 aside from price?

 

• The DDM is a “Maintenance Free” vacuum (no pre-motor filter cleaning/replacement for up to 7 yrs.)
• Logic tells me…  The carbon brush motor will be James’ typical wash-every-6-months pre-motor filter.

Why the “Maintenance Free” vacuum?  Two reasons…

1)      A friend predicted that James would have pc board failures eventually if he did not figure out how to always

have “clean air” to cool the DC12’s board. – Owners do not properly clean and maintain their pre-motor filters

and in a DDM vacuum this results in overheating and board failure. - Hence the DC22, with 1)  Dyson’s best

cyclonic filtering (perhaps best in the world) 2) a pre-motor monster filter and 3) a filter wash/replacement indicator

light or shut off (see power button, outer ring light – green = clean filter, red = dirty filter).

2)      James perhaps has now the worlds first and only… cleanest filtering and maintenance free vacuum.  And!- He

still has the DC12 if one wants a super compact yet powerful vacuum.  Not bad!

 

DIB

More Japanses DC22 launch pictures (showing motorhead).

Hi DIB

The DC22 sounds an impressive machine!  I take it the filter that is located behind one of the wheels is the pre motor filter?  And that the DDM models don't

have a post motor filter?   I think after a few years people would forget to wash the filter let alone after 7 years!  I've just got someone to wash their Dyson filter on there

DC04 for the first time!  The machine is about 5 years old!  Not surprising it's on it 2nd motor!  I'm surprised in someways Dyson has used a filter indicator as he has said

in the past that hes not keen on them!

The so called 'Motorhead' on this DC22 Japan model is in fact powered by airflow and not a motor?  Looks like it is, instead of one air intake it has 2 either side!

Wonder if this will make an appearance in the UK!  Never seen a replacement for the UK version of the DC07 Upright which was (still is!) in the UK Dyson's most

powerful upright to date!

DC18

Hello folks, I finally got around to migrating to the new site: just in time for the DC22, it seems.

DC18 (formerly known as "JD"?)  - I thought the DC14 range was the evolution/replacement for DC07.

DC07 had several 'deficiencies' (dust clogging, too tall for carrying for shorter people, whining noise from cyclones, strong suction). The DC14 addressed these flaws.

(What's with the daft formatting of this site??? The text runs off the edge of the screen, and the POST and REPLY buttons are miles away!)

Hello Trilobite

Yes the DC14 was a replacement in the UK for the DC07!   The DC14 did address some issues customers didn't like on the DC07!  I've had no issues on my DC07, but

one flaw or downside on the DC14 (personally) is the suction is no way near the DC07.  Now some say the DC07 was too powerful, but then you have some saying Dyson

vacuums are not  powerful enough hence the DC12 and DC22 with the DDM!  The main issue on the DC07 with the powerful suction was using the wand if they had the

suction release button on the hose cuff like the DC04 had then using the wand and hose would have been better.  Take the DC18 weight/size to power ratio is very good on this model. 

So what do you think to the DC22?  Not sure if this one will make the UK at some stage!  The Level 3 or Core Separation Cyclone technology is yet to make an appearance in the UK! 

I'm hoping a completely new upright to replace the DC14 with this technology and the DDM in the UK will appear at some stage! 

They have used the cleaning head and base on 3 models now in the UK DC04, DC07 and DC14 think it is time for a completely new design! 

Not that there is anything wrong with that it has worked well on all 3!  Lower slimmer cleaning head would be good!

DC18

(It's just this posting that the typing is off the page due to the pictures in the first posting!)

I find it extremely odd that the digital motor has not been launched in a UK vacuum. I also find it strange that Dyson has kept the latest cyclonic separation

techniques from us. What was the point of the DC19, DC20, and DC21 (apart from power nozzle)?

To tell you the truth, I'm starting to go off the Dyson designs, and beginning to wish some other manufacturer would take the initiative and launch a decent cleaner.

I'm fed up with Dyson's average suction power, when Dyson could quite easily make a more powerful machine (WITH A VARIABLE POWER CONTROL!).

I'm fed up with the ridiculous crevice tools fitted to current Dysons (stupid bend, too short and bloody daft 'airflow hole'!)

And I'm getting pissed off by the cleaning wand having to be disconnected when I want to use the hose end (which is 9 times out of 10!). (Mum's Panasonic upright has a very

simple hose to use, and a wonderfully long, useful crevice tool).

And, dare I say it, but a paper bag is SOOOOOO much easier to dispose of, than fiddling with bins (and clogged shrouds!).

I have been considering Sebo upright cleaners, amongst others.

Seriously, Dyson may lose another customer unless it bucks up its ideas - and quick.

How many Dyson copies currently exist in the UK?  I knew there was the Vax Zero at one time but is it still in production? 

There are so many of them here it's not even funny, and they keep coming.  As with anything, some are good, and others could be better.  The Kenmore Iridium/Progressive canister made by LG is probably the best one I've seen to date.  I had heard it was a good Dyson copy, even better than the Dyson according to some, but didn't think anything of it until I used one and examined it up close.  What a cleaner that is, and POWERFUL.  There was also something different about the cyclone assembly when I took it off that was a clear advantage.  Can't remember if it was sequential separation or not.  LG recently released an upright Dyson clone for Sears called the Kenmore PremaLite that I haven't had a chance to see yet...did talk to someone who played with one and he mentioned a few problem areas.  I noticed on the PremaLite that the bin attached to the rear of the machine, versus the front as with the rest which I thought was strange. 

The best upright Dyson copy I've used so far has to be the Bissell HealthyHome made by Daewoo.  Definitely isn't your run-of-the-mill cheap plastic "Pissell"...really a dramatic departure from that.  This one is actually pretty well made and fairly heavy.  Great engineering too I thought, and lots of power.  At the meeting there was a bunch of dirt and debris under the repair table, including small screws, nuts, bolts, etc. left over from stuff we were taking apart, and of course I put the HealthyHome to the test...picked all of it right up, screws and all!  Just for fun I also connected the hose to the Hoover Z400 (filtered bagless that had seen its fair share of use that night and was fairly clogged by then) while both were running.  The dirt stopped moving in the Z.  There's also the Bissell Total Floors Velocity which is supposed to be a copy of Dyson's dual cyclone setup...not sure how well that works as I haven't had a chance to play with one yet.

Hoover's Dyson copies include the Fusion, also badged as the Maytag Legacy (the Fusion/Legacy name is gone and the machine is now sold as the Mach 3)...there's also the Mach 5 and WindTunnel Cyclonic.  All three use the same bin setup where the air is drawn up vertically through shroud, where lightweight debris can clog the holes.  Leaves a lot to be desired and could definitely benefit from a redesign, but I've used them and they seem to work well enough.  Euro-Pro had the Shark Infinity, with 24 test-tube-sized cylindrical cyclones...not cone-shaped like the others.  I gave that machine a workout cleaning dirty machines pulled from the basement and the power didn't drop off, but you could see that the cyclones got dirty fast from fine dust.  Dirt Devil had that Spinnergy machine out for a while, worked OK but I thought it was VERY cheaply made.  I see it's been pulled now from the website.  I also see that they have a new machine on the site, the "i" which to me closely resembles the Vax Zero.  Interesting.   Wal-Mart also has a GE-labeled dual cyclonic bagless lightweight, with a large fine dust chamber, for $59.  I had to buy one this summer to try out, and it's not a bad little cleaner.  I did notice the pre-motor filter gets a little dusty after use, but I guess that can be attributed to the fact that it's only a dual cyclone.

Eureka is the only manufacturer I know that hasn't jumped on the Dyson multi-cyclone clone bandwagon, yet.  They had a dual-cyclone machine out for a while (4880 I think?) in the early-2000s which is gone now...all they have now (of course) are the horrid filtered bagless machines.

That's all I can think of now.  Any other Dyson clones you guys know of?

Hi Motorhead,

I don't think it fair to call them "copies".  That would mean that all bagged vacuums developed overtime are copies or that all machines that use water as the main filtration mediums are copies of each other.  That is not case. 
An idea is one thing and the way it's applied is another. 

The Electrolux XXX employed a low-mounted suction port that promoted air movement over the bottom of the bag which kept at least a portion of the bag wall "clean",  and the user working, until the vacuum was really full. 
The machine was also designed so that there was plenty of room all around the bag to allow as much filtering area as possible.  A lot of tank type vacs made during that era missed the point in that area.   Electrolux did not invent the disposable
bag which was in use well before the Electrolux Model LX which we first associate it with but the company did not "copy."  It took the idea and embellished it.  Thus came a double-walled, self-sealing dust bag that, even though on the small side,
gave you a decent bang for your buck in the average home.

Cyclonics -- the method used to produce air movement that inhibits loss of maximum suction -- is a term that vacuum makers have been playing around with for years and will continue to play with.  Filter Queen uses "cyclonics", the squat little piggy vacuums like Air Storm, Patriot,
Miracle Mate, etc., all use cyclonics to prolong suction.  The Kenmore Iridium is indeed a quite capable machine and though it shares the idea that Dyson also employs I don't see it as a copy.  As an instance, I like the Iridium more than the Dyson canister in that it
provides a better power nozzle and the option to raise or lower motor speed.  That too is what it's about.  Swirling air in x-number of directions doesn't mean much if you don't have well designed attachments and a modicum of convenience. 
The short coming of the Kenmore and the Dyson canister too -- if there copies -- must be the problem of filtering breakdown when air movement is impeded in the dust collectors due to larger dedris. My Iridium does a great job but debris can
become lodged above the flange on the shroud.  When that happens air filtration, not suction, takes a nose dive   Debris build up, and not a lot, compromises the ideal of "cyclonics" and the pre-filter becomes the essential filtering medium. 
Everything looks swell when you're just picking up a bit fluff and watching it swirl around in the dust bin.  Thus far, I have seen no demos of these machines that get down to the nitty gritty of real household use.  The Iridium I have gets the job
done nicely but I do have to have to remember to keep the little blue pre'filter washed.

As for the LG-sourced Permalite, it is another example of sound logic and convenience. Just about anyone can walk up to it and use it right of the bat as opposed to the confusion I've seen Dyson uprights cause for many first timers.  And believe me the
dust bin is in just the right place.  I plan on bringing one home in the not too diistant future for a thorough look.

Best,

Venson

Hello Trilobite

I'm surprised too that the DDM has not made an appearance in the UK, but looking at the latest figures from Dyson 80% of his market c(exports) comes from abroad now! Japan

I believe is one of his most successful markets, I think the the UK market has slowed down in recent years!  Saying that it would be nice to see the DDM and the new core separation

in the UK at some point, which I'm sure we will!  I've wondered what the point of the DC19 & 20 was, I can see the point of the DC21 with the motorhead!  I think they change the cyclone

setup from 12 to 8 cyclones to give the DC22 root/core seperation a better impact.  May be to cut down on parts etc so all model canisters and uprights at present use root 8 cyclone

technology.  I believe there is no difference in suction power but saying that th DC19, 20, 21 have lower airwatts then their older models DC08/DC08TW.

The bleed holes on the tools were useful on the powerful DC07 (UK) but have to say like you don't really serve a use anymore on models like the DC14,15,18.  I like the bend in the

crevice tools, as it angles the wand away from the wall, but yes they are not long enough and are no use with the bend in them when going down a narrow opening to clean.

The only thing I think Dyson uprights let themselves down with is the brushbar!  They do a good job but I have seem better lately as you mentioned on a Sebo (Felix & X4).  For me

they just need to change that and make the cleaning head flatter/slimmer to fit easily under furniture etc... Saves getting the tools and attachments out all the time!

DC18