Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

  Yep, those side slashes look like shark gill slits, aggressive and waiting for more revs to suck in air.

 

  On the scout for a Borat-like machine and came across a similar but unfortunately 3hp version.  Pretty sure it’s the same model Craftsman as Borat’s with a HSK600.  I wondered what that big case was all about and it’s not much.  It’s an empty cavern in there with the peanut size 600.  Tons of room. 

 

   Twenty dollars, electric start, augers fine, and it fires up with gas in the throat.  I put out a couple of emails looking for an 850.

 

   The red one is Murray 3hp HSK600.  Ten dollars.  Got that apart and it seems fine.  Augers are full, 95 psi compression and the carb cleaned right up.  Starts fine and runs well. It needs a chute hold down bracket in the front but that’s about it for flaws. 

    It was a surprise to find a carb bowl access plate on the bottom cover.  But after seeing what was required to get the bottom cover off for carb access it makes sense.  Getting the bottom cover off requires taking off the belt cover and they used bolts rather than sheet metal screws.  The bolts are hard to get to.  So I think the carb bowl plate was added to give the mechanic a shot at cleaning the carb somewhat and not have to go through taking off the covers.  A carb cleaning on this would probably be $200 at a shop. 

 

    The Craftsman cover is ringed with scads of bolts and looked like a hassle which is why the red Murray got done first.  Not looking forward to taking off the Craftsman covers. 

    

Trouts:

I've looked high and low for any type of service manual for the HSK850.  No such luck.  Difficult engine to get information on.  What I did find out however is what the "HSK" stands for.  H - horizontal SK - Snow King.   Not valuable info but at least I can now keep the letters straight.

Observe broken engine mount.  It's cracked all the way down.  Note thickness of brace plate.  The original mount is thin sheet metal.  Looks thick but it's actually bent over.



This is the best I could find for an HSK850 engine diagram.  Shabby resolution.  Not much detail but at least gives us an idea.  If anyone has knowledge of where downloads can be found for this engine, please let us know.

   I was asking for the Craftaman manuals.

For the HSK850 user put  the number below 31AS231-729 and 1 for a serial number at this site http://manuals.mtdproducts.com/mtd/Public.do For a parts view you should be able to get the number off the side of the engine and google it.   That should find partstree and your engine. If not then put your number here. http://www.outdoordistributors.com/Tecumseh/tecumseh_part_lists.html

Trying to get a Craftsman manual will be very difficult.   Never seen  Sears give anything of use away for free.   Probably better off finding a Murray manual for the equivalent Craftsman machine. 

   I was going to email you the Tecumseh user and my Craftsman owners but could not find your email address.

   The Techumeh user is not so helpful and the Craftsman is not a 100% match.  Some of the owners manuals
have a exploded views but not this one.  There's actually quite a bit few Craftsman manuals online but not much
from Craftsman directly.  

You can sometimes find Murray and many other old manuals at the site below.  If not a direct match you can poke around
for a model close and often get numbers for parts.
http://www.partsandservice.com/

This place is also hit or miss.  Last month I picked up an old Craftsman table saw that had never been used.  Got the
manual from the place below.  Nice old time manual with an extensive section on saw setup plus a parts section.

http://www.manualsonline.com/

borat, how about this one? It's the "Tecumseh Technician's Handbook", it covers the HSK850.

http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/html/engine-specs/tecumseh/Tecumseh_HSK-HXL_TVS-TVXL_Engines_Service_Information.pdf

The Technician's Manual that covers the HSK600 can be found at:

http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/html/engine-specs/tecumseh/Tecumseh_2-Cycle_Engines_Service_Information.pdf

If it's of any help, this is an Owner's Manual for the HSK600-870

http://www.managemylife.com/mmh/owner_manuals/9538/TECUMSEH-Engine-L060103

Sometimes, on partstree.com, I'll zoom in a bunch of times (as I recall, they have Zoom In and Zoom Out buttons), until the image is really big, then right-click it and do Save Image. That way you can get a higher-resolution version than it shows you by default. Still not great, but an improvement sometimes.

  Borat,

   Pictures below of the bracing on the Murray 3hp and Craftsman 3/21.  Both have a U channel cross brace.  The right side of the engine is not supported.  Some Toro models have a brace the left aide of the engine with a bracket that runs from supports below the engine to a bolt sticking out of the center of the recoil.  It's good support but makes changine a pull rope involved.

   Took a look at the 850 manual Red posted.  There's a caution in there about running higher RPMs.  They say it will lead to a lean condition and over heating.  The effect won't be immediate but over time probably degrade the engine.  Seems reasonable enough and monitoring the plug would probably show a deeper grayish to darker dry ash.  Maybe that can be offeset by running a bit richer or running with a tad of choke. 

 Red,

    A paper clips works well for attaching a string.  The clip goes through the throtte shutter hole for the governor spring and the other end gets the string.  The muffler is just above and to the left of the carb as you look at the carb.  The case hole for the muffler is right there so it works out the height of the throttle shutter is about the same level as the base of the muffler and its case hole.  The string can be run out of the muffler hole.  That setup should be the same for just about any SS running an HSK600.  Next time I'm in the Powerlite I'll have to update to a paperclip. 

   Started and run both with the string.  The engine sounds ok with the rev boot. 

Craftsman 3/21

Murray 3hp

Yeah, I read that somewhere in the Tecumseh manual. 

I'd suspect that running the engine at extremely high rpms continuously might lead to a lean condition.  Particularly if there is any type of restriction of the main jet.  On/off load and rpm variance should pretty much negate a lean condition.  I should pull the spark plug on the Craftsman to see how it looks.  it's seen lots of work and plenty of revving so, the plug should give me an idea of how it's running.  If there is any indication of a lean condition, I'll slightly enlarge the main jet with welding torch tip cleaners to improve fuel flow.  Simple fix if it's required.    First thing I have to do however is to cut a hole in the cover to get at the spark plug.    

You'll have to use a fairly stout paper clip.  There's not any tension on the lever when the engine isn't running.  Once it's fired up the lever moves and required a bit of force to actuate governor over-ride with the string.

I decided to take a look at the spark plug on the Craftsman.   There's no place to cut a hole for pulling the plug.  Seems the spark plug lines up with the primer bulb on the dash. I found a simpler way to access the engine.  The rear portion of the belly pan is held on by six or eight screws.  undo the screws, pull the piece clear of the choke lever on the carb and the engine is accessible to inspect the spark plug. 

Spark plug looks great.  Couldn't ask for better.  No plans to do anything with the carb when the  plug looks this good. 

Apologize for the image size.  I did rezise but still too big.




Spark plug access:

   I'm not a great plug read so the comments are not saying your off as much as bouncing what my take for feedback. 

   My understanding is the grey/brown dry ash chould extend for 1/2 the horizontal section of the shank.   That's generally what I see.  Your plug has the ash extend way past the curve down the verticle section.  That seems to me hot but just how hot and the effect I'm not sure.  If it were me I'd look at leaning up.   I think this might be your first look at the plug so just what is there and due to the rev bump unknown.  Maybe the extended ash happened before.  

    The plug has not been in there that long with extra revs so might get worse or stay as is.  Nothing alarming.  It would take quite a bit of run time before a more indicative plug would show itself even if it's running hot.

Update:  I've never come across anything that differentiated between two or four strokes.  I would think the oil would if nothing else change the ash color.   Have you ever come across anything like that?

" My understanding is the grey/brown dry ash chould extend for 1/2 the horizontal section of the shank.   That's generally what I see.  Your plug has the ash extend way past the curve down the verticle section.  That seems to me hot but just how hot and the effect I'm not sure."

Not sure where you get/got your instructions for reading spark plugs but from my experience,  you might be "reading" too much into it. 

The key to reading the plug is the colour of the area exposed to the combustion process.  Tan is the desired colour.  How much on each component is of no concern as long as they're all tan. 

From the picture I provided, it's pretty clear that it's all tan, which indicates an engine that's running properly.   As you are aware, I pretty much specialize in two cycle engines and I have to say that the spark plug in the HSK850 is about as good as it gets.  There should be very little variance between a properly running four cycle engine and a properly running two cycle engine.   If the fuel to air mixture is correct and the spark plug in the correct heat range, the plug should look similar to the picture of the one I've posted. 

I've seen what hot  plugs and lean conditions can do to a two stroke engine.  I've fixed more than a few snowmobile engines that had holed pistons from too hot of a plug to too lean a fuel mixture.  It's not a pretty sight.   I'm more than happy with the condition of the plug in the Craftsman.  Particularly since it's been pushed for hours with no sign of a problem yet.

You want to see ugly?  Check this out.  It's the plug from my B&S 305cc Kool Bore snow engine.  Can't say for sure if it was the oil but I had been running nothing but Mobile 1 5w30 synthetic in it.  I changed to a 5W30 high mileage conventional and after running it for a season, the plug looked  better last time I pulled it.

Here's a good link with lots of spark plug reading info:

  http://www.theultralightplace.com/sparkplugs.htm