Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

   Picked up a Deere 826 yesterday.  The thing crapped out during the last storm with a brunt belt and the guy hurt is back shoveling so it got the boot. 

   Nice old buzzard rig but I can't find anything on it at the Deere site.  Anyone know where I can an exploded view?  I tried the usual places that have them and nothing on this one.   It's ID plate has P826J, 127489.  If I google P826J I get new models.  Nothing on the other number.

   The thing works fine after a belt replacement but it only tosses 3 - 8 feet with lots of low splatter.  I tried a few different belt sizes and tensions, and even over tight to insure no slip.  I can't see any slip with the cover off.  It has good grab, no crud in the V's, no obstruction in the housing.  It does have quite a distance from the arms to the lining, 1/2 inch.  The impleller is a 4 blade 12 inch and it should toss fairly well, 15-25. 

   Does anyone have this model and could tell me what it tosses like?  I can't see any problems so guess it's a design problem but at 3-8 feet hard to imagine they could make something that bad. 

   The motor certainly is not the problem, a Briggs Intek Snow 11hp a couple of years old.  I can drive into any condition snow and toss the same distance without engine sag.  Very impressive.  Anyone have a URL to an exploded view on the engine?  I can find one so I assume it a special for some maker.  It's got a 3/4 shaft.  3BSXS 3422HT 275387.  I can't get anything found at the Briggs site.  Googling I get 275385 which is a 10hp but nothing for 275487.  There are lots of hits for 3BXSX 3422HT but no motor like this.

A lot of videos and sales of that style deere I see have damaged impellers.  It seems the tips like to bend over backwards.  Maybe have a look and see that they are all bent properly.  You probably would have noticed when seeing the huge gap though.  Maybe it just needs an impeller kit?  Either way, you probably got the engine for a good price even if the rest is junk :)

    Took a long ride to pickup parts and on the way think I have solved the problem.  The engine was replaced.  They probably put a different diameter pulley on it.  The thing must be running too slow to toss well.  I'll get another pulley and see.

That would do it too.  I figure that should have at least a 3" diameter on it.

I have the same exact machine with the same poor  throwing distance. Mine is all stock, including the 8 hp engine which runs strong. Belt is new and tight. I also have the same 1/2 inch gap between impeller blade and tube. I think this gap is the problem. I am considering trying one of those impeller kits.

Shryp, did you come up with a number for ft/sec out?  the impeller case is 12 but the impeller itself 11.  The actual pulley is 2 1/2 in diameter and the belt back is flush with the top of the pulley.  The bottom pulley is 8 inches. 

ahw2698,

   Do you have the part number for the engine pulley?  Do you know of an exploded view on-line?

   Does yours have the same number on the back plate as the number posted up top?

   Does your 8hp have a 3/4 or 1" crankshaft?   Mine is a replacement engine with a 3/4 crank end. 

   The pulley on mine is a double pulley.   Is yours a double pulley?  

   Earlier I figured I could just slap a bigger auger pulley on but since it's a double it will take some time to track down a single double or pair of individual pulleys.

   I'd like to mess with some kits.  I keep forgetting to go to a place for "farm belt".

   

 

I was just guessing on that number.

3600 * 2.5 / 8 =  1125 rpm.  That isn't too bad.  3" would get you 1350 rpm.

Shryp wrote:
Very slow for an 11" impeller. 1350 would be a better speed. That 11hp Briggs could do even more, but you have other parts to worry about if you get carried away.

The model number on mine is slightly different than yours. Mine is P826H.  It looks just like the one in your picture, though. Maybe mine is a year or so older or newer?

I have not  had any luck obtaining parts diagrams. But I can tell you that mine has a 3/4 inch shaft and a double pulley. I'm pretty sure the pulleys are 2 1/2 inches. Engine and pulleys are original.

When I first aquired the machine, it only tossed maybe 4 feet max. After a new belt, it tosses up to 8 feet. Still not far enough. The impeller seems to spin quite nicely. When running without snow at full throttle, I can feel a nice strong breeze coming from the chute.

So it looks like you have the correct factory shaft / pulley combination. Plus you have 3 more HP than original plus the engine is newer.

Go here:
http://jdpc.deere.com/jdpc/servlet/com.deere.u90490.partscatalog.view.servlets.HomePageServlet_Alt

Put in 826 in the Model Search box in the top left corner. Look at the results, first line: "1250 - 1032, 526, 726, 732, 826 and 832 Snow Blowers - 23Feb05"
I looked under the Sectional Index at the control console and it seems to match, so it's pretty close, if not the exact one.

Want a fast, cheap, and (somewhat) easy way to test out an impeller kit? Go to Home Depot where they sell the driveway sealer. For $5 you can pick up a squeegee head. Cut the length you need for each blade (take the rubber and the steel strip) and screw it on the impellers - drill a small hole and use like a #8 or 10 bolt, nut, and lockwasher. Put it on the top side of the impeller so you don't stress the little screws too much. May not hold up long but it will last long enough for you to decide if you want to invest in something heavier and more expensive. If not, the holes are small enough that you can ignore them. And if so, use those holes as guides for the real ones.

Bill_H,

   Nice, and thank you.  That's a match for mine.  OK on the squeegee head.  That's funny and I'll check out HD as it seems like it could be a possibility.

ahw2698,

    The hub has 4 short arms sticking out.  The drawings show that to be the handles for changing the differential.  Kind of a surprise.  It's won't move so probably rusted in place.  It has some external rust but otherwise in excellent shape.   It's feels ok to drive around and will probably make a nice machine when fixed.   The 11hp OHV is too nice for that but I have and 8hp and some spare pulleys.   The auger support is a bearing not a roller bearing.   The impeller shaft is tight but a surprise to see a bearing there. 

   Have you owned that since new?

   The pulley number is M45490.  Googling that I found a picture of one which is a double pulley.  In the picture the front auger pulley seems to be larger than the back drive pulley.  The two on mine are the same size. 

   I counted the RPM of the augers and they run at 100 RPM at 3600 engine RPM.  The ratio is usually around 10:1 so the impeller 1000 or around there 900-1100. 

Shryp: >>>600 * 2.5 / 8 =  1125 rpm.  That isn't too bad.  3" would get you 1350 rpm.

    When I checked the pulley yesterday I did it without a coat and too fast a check.  I rechecked today and it's 8.5 inches. 

2.5   = 1058, 3052 ft/sec

3      = 1270, 3664 ft/sec

3.25 = 1376, 3969 ft/sec

3.5   = 1575, 4543 fr/sec

A 3 inch pulley would get it up more in the range of a modern machine but the low end.  A 3.25 gets it in with Ariens numbers.  A 3.5 gets a good boost. With a 3.25 and some impeller arm extenders the thing could probably do 30-35 with good snow.  Snowmann is probably right about 1350 and not going too far.  With the bearing instead of a roller bearing much higher would probably take a toll. 

The auger clutch is a dash mounted throw lever so one hand is free all the time for changing chute direction.   With a 3.25 pulley and a taller chute this would be a nice machine.     

Checked the pulley stash and found a double pulley, 3/4 inch hole, 2 1/2 drive diameter, 3 auger, both for 1/2 in belts, with proper spacing.  Lucky find. 

The new pulley upped the auger rotation to 125 RPM determined by counting turns.  Hard to judge the start and finish but I think it might be a turn or two higher.  

The machine tosses exactly the same, 7-8 feet.  It can go through 2" or full bucket of four day old snow that's been double thrown onto, 8 feet.  No hesitation no belt slip.    I've tried 3 belts yesterday and a new belt today.  All had good tension and at times set to tighter than proper tension.  This machine is such a dog it's hard to believe.  At that speed with a short chute it should be capable of 15-25.     

Trouts, I see you are from MA. I am from So. NH. We had 6 inches of fairly heavy snow today. I only got about a 6 to 8 foot toss out of my 826.

Today there was a very heavy and deep EOD. Got about a 4 foot toss there. The machine never bogged down, even in the heavy stuff, just does not throw snow far. My auger pully is 2 1/2 inches.

It would be interesting to know what  throw distance these things were rated for when new. 

   It's a decent machine overall.  The linkage rods are not rusted, the tractor internals in great shape, good metal, great cast gearbox, cuts through tough conditions every well but just can't throw. 

  It's an 11 inch impeller in a 12 inch hole.  Ariens has a 10 inch impeller on some machines and if I remember right it it runs at 1410 and the rakes 140.  That is a 4 blade like our machines.  They run it that high to keep up the ft/sec rate out of the chute.  It does very well but the wall space is not like our machines.  On our machines it pretty wide.   Whatever other improvements can be done they will be wasted without first filling the space.  If that alone was done the machine would probably toss well enough to be minimally acceptable.

>>>It would be interesting to know what  throw distance these things were rated for when new. 

    Right.  What bothers me is how could they sell something like this.  It make me think I am missing something because I can't square how they could have sold what we have.

I too have an 826 mine is serial # 119000, if you go to johndeere.com and search the  ONLINE PARTS CATALOG... try this link  http://jdpc.deere.com/jdpc/servlet/com.deere.u90490.partscatalog.view.servlets.HomePageServlet_Alt                   i loaded the link again and it takes you right to the 826 parts, this might be helpful to some of you.

I came to this site via a google search for info on the blower fan.  It was interesting to read all that you have been writing about the "poor" toss that our snow blowers do.  I am curious did anyone try the auger kit and what where your results?  How about the pulley change did the increased RPMs and help?

I am rebuilding my unit ex. new bushings on augers, new friction disk, new feet or skids, new scrapper bar, points/condensor, belts.  I ahve it tore into 3 pieces...I first went to the above JD site to look at parts...WOW they are expensive!  I did some research and found that I was able to locate all the bushings for 1/3 of what JD wanted at a local bearing dealer, the scrapper bar was $47 to $66 so i made one out of $10 piece of strap and some old spray paint, I bought one foot or skid for $13 and rebuilt the other one, the belts I got both for the price JD wanted for 1 (at the local bearing dealer).  I searched the net to find JD dealer that was the cheapest (as some parts you just cant get any where else)  here is a link to that site..http://www.greenfarmparts.com/  if you find someone cheaper please let me know.

I figured my issue on not moving the snow far was due to all the bad bushings etc....now I am not sure (I should say i have not got it back together and we have not had any snow since i tore it down) that its going to throw the snow any better....I agree that the unit will go through anything and not bog down, but at best with dry snow it will only throw it @15' with the wind, if the snow is wet it wont hardly move it 4'.....

I have a large driveway....over 30' wide and 90' long i really need to move the snow all the way to one side and most of it to one end, needless to say it takes a LONG time to move all that snow several times.  So what I really want to know is have you improved the preformance and if so HOW?????? 

My thought is if this thing aint gonna get it then i am going to buy a model that will before NEXT years snow.

Thanks for any insite and assistance you can muster.

Ken

Blackdog, welcome to the forum. 

 

The link you provided shows an 826 that looks like mine from the parts list.  It has the same auger drive pulley and fan dimensions of 11.5 inches with 4 blades.  It’s a looser like mine.

 

>>>I am curious did anyone try the auger kit and what where your results?  How about the pulley change did the increased RPMs and help?

 

I don’t think your poor performance is due to bushings or bearings.  I think it’s a crummy design.  I did not install a “kit” but did put on a 3 inch pulley with the results posted above, lousy.  The impeller speed is still to low to do much.  The machine has a half inch space between the end of the impeller arms and the side wall of the fan housing.  That also has to be taken care of to get good distance. 

 

I stopped working on mine as making mods to that thing is not going to lead to a great machine.  At best the result would be a barely passable machine in average conditions and dog in tough conditions.  It can muscle through snow but it’s a very poor tosser as you know.  It would probably be passable with a 3.5 inch drive pulley.  Once you get the feet per second up high enough you’ll be at it’s max capable RPM on the impeller and augers and only have a barely adequate machine.  It could work though and clear your area but if you are in an area that gets a lot of snow then it would not be a great machine.   

 

There are better machines to spend time on and at least for me that machine was not worth adjusting.  If you started with a better machine and did the same work you would end up with a much better machine.

 

You could try to locate a better blower housing to mount to the base.  The base is very nice.  The tractor section seems very nice with robust components.  The auger engagement clutch is nice and leaves your hand free to work the chute.  For me that engagement is better than the newer designs with drive and auger clutch locking.  On a new machine, if you want to feather the drive clutch in tough going the auger clutch kicks out so you have to hold it.  With the Deere you don’t. 

If you got a full 12 inch or 14 inch impeller and a 3 or 3.5 inch pulley (depends on the pulley size that came with the housing) you would have a viable machine.

 

All in all a 3.5 inch pulley just may be enough to put some life into that thing but it would be at the low end of acceptable.

I have a John Deere 826 that I bought new in 1982.  Model P826H, S/N  101665.  Looks a lot like yours except it Has the H80 Snowking engine.   It doesn't blow snow as far as the new Honda, but goes a lot farther than 8 feet.  I did have problems twice with lack of throwing distance and here is how I fixed them:  (1) about  4 years ago I found that the bearing bushing hole that the impeller shaft rides in had worn into an oval shape so that  when activating the auger drive control (this just tightens the belt) the auger shaft moved up in the bearing and never could get proper tension on it.  Replaced the bushing (and all the others while I was at it) and all was good.   And then (2)  Earlier this winter the throwing distance dropped to what you are seeing - snow just dribbling outa the chute.   Had put a new belt on it last year and looks like it has stretched.  Easy fix this time - just tightened up the ball linkage a few truns to the specs in the repair manual and this fixed the problem.  Took a few tries to get it just right and this appears to be a sensitive adjustment:  too loose and the impeller still turns but it won't throw snow, too tight and you'll get a sore wrist forcing the drive control up and probably be replacing bushings again sometime soon.  All told, this has been a good blower for me.  Not as good as the new Honda tracker, but certainly better than the new JD 1330SE that I tried earlier this year.  I still use it when conditions don't require the Honda.

I just finished installing a Clarence Impeller Kit on my John Deere 826. We are supposed to get snow tomorrow and Weds. so I should have ample opportunity to test it out.

I ran it for a while tonight  just to "break in"  the rubber onto the housing and that went fine.

If you have a 1/2" space between the impeller blade tips and the housing that is the problem, without question.  Increasing the rpm won't really help that much. The impeller and housing section of a
blower is basically a pump. And without a fairly tight clearance it won't pump well. Not only that,  the impeller is always spinning inside a wad of snow that never leaves the housing.  It's functioning more like a blender than a pump.

 I had an air drill once that had worn vanes.  It would spin really fast and sounded like it was working well until.
You put the drill under a load by putting the drill bit on a piece of steel.  It would barely spin then. All the air that was supposed to be pushing on the vanes to spin the chuck was finding an easier way out by going through the space between the vanes and the housing. I know that is kind of the reverse of how a impeller and housing work but it's a similar principle.

I recently posted a comment from a Ariens tech that I read somewhere else.  He stated that "if the clearance is correct in the housing you should be able to put a dime on the bottom of the housing and the impeller should sweep it up and throw it out the chute". "When the Impeller won't do the same with a quarter it's time to rebuild the impeller blades". 

When I lengthened the blades on my impeller to where I now have 1/16 to 1/8" clearance (the housing isn't perfectly round) it made a noticeable difference in the throw distance and the ability of the blower to blow both snow and slush.  So much so that I no longer carry a clean out tool on the blower.  The chute just never clogs and I can throw pure slush. 
I really think that decreasing the gap or clearance between the impeller blades and housing is the single biggest performance booster that can be made on a blower.  You can't believe the difference until you see it for yourself.   I've also noticed that because the blower is now so much more efficient at expelling all the snow that enters the housing.  That I can reduce the engine speed, use a higher gear and still get the job done with snow depths up to about 4 or 5". It's a wonderful thing!

Jrtrebor:>>If you have a 1/2" space between the impeller blade tips and the housing that is the problem, without question.

 

I agree.   The spacing and the very slow impeller rpm make a big problem.

 

   There are now five people I have heard of that have this style of Deere and have the distance problem.  A guy on another forum put CL’s kit in and is using his but he did not give the improvement over the original short distance.  Reading about his made me think about mine more.  I checked the impeller area again and realized I had ˝ on one side and an inch on the other at 180 from the ˝. 

   The impeller arms are very small to boot.  With a CL kit it would be good to extend past the flat up onto the curved part of the arm.  If mine got a kit I’d still be away from the barrel on 1/3 of the travel of the impeller.  I think mine has it’s impeller shaft hole slightly off from center.

I read it is straight down to 90 degrees out to the side of the chute that matters.  It was said that the rest doesn't matter.

Sorry Shryp, can you repeat that but differently?

Is that the last quarter of rotation before the chute?

Yea, I read somewhere that it is the last quarter of the sweep that really matters.

I got a chance to run my deere 826 today with the kit installed. There was a noticable difference. We had about 5 inches of dry, powdery snow today.

I noticed an improvement of about 25-30% in distance. This is in line with what I have read others are seeing. The real improvement is supposed to happen with the heavy, wet slushy stuff.

Anyway, it has turned the machine from being basically unusable to marginally acceptable. Definately not a good as a modern machine, but OK. My take on it is if you have an old machine that runs good but cannot toss well due to the huge impeller gap, it's worth the money. If you really want to pinch pennies, you could fabricate your own kit.

ahw2698 wrote:

That's great and about what I figured.  It would bring it just into acceptable.  If you put a three inch pulley on that it would get it even better.  I tried on mine but without a kit it did not make any difference.   I think the Deere is nice and like the auger clutch allowing a free hand.  It's like the old Ariens machines which are very easy to use.  The Deere seems very well built and mine is clean without rust.  I hate to just have it languish or get the boot for $50.

trouts2 wrote:
That sounds like a fun project for a nice summer day. If it's a bearing with a 2 or 3 hole flange, it wouldn't be too hard to move it over 1/4", or even swap out for a flanged bearing.  Maybe there's even a bigger impeller in your parts pile?

Edit to add: Just looked it up in the parts list. 3 hole flange on the bearing, that's good. But it looks like the impeller and shaft are one piece (?), if so, no swapping the impeller. Though it should make it easier to drill for the kit while it's apart.

What would it entail for me to step up to a 3 inch pully? What I have now is a "two in one" style pulley. One piece of metal with two wheels of the same diameter (2 1/2 I think). I would assume I would keep the drive pulley to same diameter and jump the auger pulley up to 3"? Would I be able to do this with two individual pulleys, or would I have to get a double with the 3 inch / 2.5 inch combo? 

The other question I have would be with what size auger belt I would need with the bigger pulley. Is sizing for that going to be trial and error?

Does the auger shaft wobble around in the bearing?  Maybe you just have a very warb bearing.

Woof, At least on mine the auger support bearing is fine. 

ahw,

   Double or single is ok.   Murrays have a dual that can be used.  I had to go up an inch on mine going from 2.5 to 3.  HW stores are pretty good about exchanging or returning belts.  If you can't locate pulleys email me for a possible second hand source.  Email at link below.

I recently picked up an 826 from my Brother in Law.  I have the front end disassembled and have decided to implement some of the changes discussed in this thread.  I am going to purchase the auger kit.  I have already done minor repairs to the auger where it was bent, probably from stones.  I would like to look for a replacement pulley that is either a 2.5/3 or even a 2.5/3.5.  Can anyone tell me the best way to find such an item.  My experience in the past is that to get a part you really need a part number.   I have picked up a couple of the auger bearings from JD and noticed they have changed a little.  They are a little longer now and have a grease seal on them.  maybe they will last a little longer.

I would say have a look here or a local Tractor Supply Company.
http://www.mfgsupply.com/mower/mowerpull.html

http://www.tractorsupply.com/