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New_Yorker


Preach the Gospel always, use words when necessary

Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Nov 26, 2010
Points: 219

New Engine . . . Change the Oil ? How Soon ?
Original Message   Jan 6, 2011 9:43 am
For every new engine I ever purchase, whether in a new car or a lawnmower I change the oil after just a few hours of use.  I learned to do this because a new  engine wears in and creates small metal particles that cause excess wear if they are not removed from the engine, and even in new cars with oil filters the filter is limited in how small the particles it can trap.  In the case of my New Honda GX 270 engine that powers my Honda Snowblower, I ran the machine for about 2 hours, then drained and refilled the engine with 100% synthetic oil.  When the oil was visible in the drain pan it was grey in color from the large quantity of metal wear particles suspended in the oil.   I will probably wait another 4 to 6 hours of operation before doing another oil change.   Considering that the expensive new engine only requires a little more than 1 quart of oil, and it has no oil filter, it seems a prudent investment to add these very early oil changes to the maintenance regimen of a new engine.   Incidentally, Honda suggests the first change after 20 hours.  Based on the evidence of the metal in the oil, I would suggest that is far too long to wait for that initial oil change.  

I'm curious how others feel about this.

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rubinew


Joined: Dec 30, 2010
Points: 147

Re: New Engine . . . Change the Oil ? How Soon ?
Reply #17   Jan 6, 2011 9:14 pm
carlb wrote:
While i agree that changing the oil after two hours of running is a good idea with a new small engine and I would go so far as to change the oil again after about 10 hours of usage, however I would not under any circumstances use a synthetic oil in an engine that is not fully broken in.  Adding synthetic oil to an engine that is not fully broken will lead to more than normal oil consumption, less than optimum proformance and the possibility of the rings never properly seating.  FYI I have been building race engines for over 20 years and have seen first hand what an engine that was not broken in properly before switching to synthetic looks like inside.  Very clean and in a lot of cases glazed cylinder walls and poor ring sealing.

Carl


I have tinkered with small engines, from time to time, even rebuilt the head on a 4 cyclinder Honda once, years ago, still I am no expert. However, a friend of mine is, works for an engine rebuilding company, has been involved with engines of all sizes, for many years.

When I purchased a new Generator last year(same one he has) I was going to put synthetic oil in it. He flat out told me not to, said the exact same thing, that the engine will not seat the rings properly, oil can pass the rings more easily, causing other issues, etc, etc.

He did say that if I was dead set on synthetic, that I could switch to it once the engine was properly broke in ( I do not remember how long, sorry), however, he strongly recomended that with a small engine to just stay with a good quality conventional oil. He stated that the use of synthetic oil would have no measurablel value to the engine life and would be a simple waste of money.

mikiewest


Joined: Dec 29, 2007
Points: 262

Re: New Engine . . . Change the Oil ? How Soon ?
Reply #18   Jan 6, 2011 9:16 pm
you can say what u want about synthetic oil .but the manual does not state to use only synthetic oil.Ur opinion is only that of a yahoo......Mr  NEW Yorker......
This message was modified Jan 6, 2011 by mikiewest
mikiewest


Joined: Dec 29, 2007
Points: 262

Re: New Engine . . . Change the Oil ? How Soon ?
Reply #19   Jan 6, 2011 9:20 pm
Oh I didnt know ny was in the arctic...or do you live in NY and snowblow in the arctic??hmmmm.....
MN_Runner


Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Joined: Dec 5, 2010
Points: 622

Re: New Engine . . . Change the Oil ? How Soon ?
Reply #20   Jan 6, 2011 9:23 pm
You do have a valid point there.  If you are going to follow the manual then do it all times or don't bother or skip it when you know better.  It is a good philosophy.
New_Yorker


Preach the Gospel always, use words when necessary

Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Nov 26, 2010
Points: 219

Re: New Engine . . . Change the Oil ? How Soon ?
Reply #21   Jan 6, 2011 9:28 pm
Synthetic Oil has many advantages over petroleum, not thinkening is but one.  Dino oil breaks down from heat and creates sludge in an engine.  I have cars in the family with 300K on them and oil that is clear, you can't do that for 10,000 miles with the Dino oil.   Toyota had a problem a few years back with sludge clogging up their engines, not one case was seen in engines that used 100% sythetic oil.  The first jet aircraft engines the nazi's built in WW2 had to be torn down and rebuilt after something like 9 hours because the oil would solidify from the heat.  Amsoil, the first automotive oil to be sold that was 100% synthetic was begun by a man who was a pilot, and understood that advantage.   The advantages are easily worth the extra few bucks, especially when the engine only holds about 1 quart.  I always keep the machines I buy for a long time.  If I leased cars, then OK maybe it'd make sense to do whatever is cheap, and minimum and let the next victim deal with the problems, but that's never been me.
MN_Runner


Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Joined: Dec 5, 2010
Points: 622

Re: New Engine . . . Change the Oil ? How Soon ?
Reply #22   Jan 6, 2011 9:37 pm
Thanks for the fair warning - I will neither buy a used car nor snowblower from you.
MN_Runner


Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Joined: Dec 5, 2010
Points: 622

Re: New Engine . . . Change the Oil ? How Soon ?
Reply #23   Jan 6, 2011 9:37 pm
Synthetic oil makes my engine run at lower dB.  Noticed the difference after I changed from a conventional oil to synthetic.  My neighbors will appreciate this $3 upgrade and I feel better.
This message was modified Jan 6, 2011 by MN_Runner
New_Yorker


Preach the Gospel always, use words when necessary

Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Nov 26, 2010
Points: 219

Re: New Engine . . . Change the Oil ? How Soon ?
Reply #24   Jan 6, 2011 9:52 pm
mikiewest wrote:
who r u to suggest??ur just another yahoo from suffolk county.Guys dont listen to him .follow the manual..............sounds familiar????


  Yes Guys, Always Follow The Owners Manual !

Sorry mikiwest,  But Oil Changes are recommended by Honda to NOT EXCEED 20 hours initially, nothing in the Honda Owners Manual suggests the oil may not be changed more frequently if one is enlightened enough to do so.  Oh, and don't take My word for the metal wear particles in the engines oil, just look at the oil and see them for yourself.  mikiwest may think this to be as complex as Rocket Science, but it's actually all pretty simple stuff.

New_Yorker


Preach the Gospel always, use words when necessary

Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Nov 26, 2010
Points: 219

Re: New Engine . . . Change the Oil ? How Soon ?
Reply #25   Jan 6, 2011 9:59 pm
mikiewest wrote:
either the manual is always right or its always wrong.Maybe its correct  sometimes........

The Owners Manual IS always right !  It requires the oil be changed once before 20 hours have been exceeded, I did that, I changed the engine oil after 2 hours.  How is that not following the owners manual ?  Do you understand any of this ?  If I decide to change the oil 20 times before the 20 hours how would that not be following the owners manual ?  Why do you make these comments ?
New_Yorker


Preach the Gospel always, use words when necessary

Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Nov 26, 2010
Points: 219

Re: New Engine . . . Change the Oil ? How Soon ?
Reply #26   Jan 6, 2011 10:04 pm
mikiewest wrote:
you can say what u want about synthetic oil .but the manual does not state to use only synthetic oil.Ur opinion is only that of a yahoo......Mr  NEW Yorker......

The HONDA owners manual tells the proper weight and API classification for the oil, How does using that weight and classification conflict with the owners manual if the motor oil is synthetic instead of the cheaper dino oil ?  Where in the Owners Manual does it prohibit using synthetic oil ?  So this is yet Another Bogus Statement  (BS) by mikiwest ? 
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