Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Hello all,

I'm new to this snowblower community.  I've got my new Ariens 8526 which I used last weekend and loved.  Here is my question:  Everyone on the forum seems to agree that fresh gasoline is important.  My OPE dealer has told me repeatedly to dump my gas can into my car after a month or two, and get fresh gas for the blower.  I understand it and it all makes sense.  But I'm wondering why these snowblower motors are so particular about gas.  I've got a tiller with a 5 hp B&S motor that I've had for at least six years and I've never done anything to it.  Most years it gets used once in the spring and than sits til next year.  Sometimes it gets used a second time in the fall.  So the best case is it gets run an hour in the spring and an hour in the fall.  I have only added gas when I use it.  Never drained the tank.  Always starts and runs fine.  Now I know you guys are cringing at this.  I just wasn't as 'in' to my power equipment as I am now that I have found this forum.  So if the tiller can sit year after year with gas in the tank until some more is added, and there have been no problems, do the snowblowers really need such pampering in regards to gas?  Keep in mind that I'm not suggesting that anyone treat their blower like I've treated my tiller.  And I'm not going to do that either.  But are they really that finiky, and if so why?   Please don't flame.  Just trying to learn.

Blue will have a great answer for this, I am sure.

But, let me tell you that I too have had OPE that gas has sat in for months and, over the years I had not done anything to them other than add gas, they worked too.

It's my understanding that Briggs carbs are less finicky than Tecumseh carbs, there is one thing. I also think I remember hearing that todays gas does not have the staying power as gas use to have before it turns out to be no good for small engines. I know my engines I have done this to have become harder to start over the years, even though they still ran. I also believe that there is a little bit of hype in this fuel stabilizer business. Not to say it doesn't work, because it does. But, personally I believe it to be over hyped and the bad fuel after 30 days is over played.

Let me add, engines that are in the more extreme temperature climates are more prone to gather condensation.

          Hi Wheels and welcome

             Stale gas in the summer may be a inconvient problem to fix but in the winter it is a pure nightmare .

        If you take any advice from this forum take the advice of fresh gas and stabilizer!!

                Tom

Look, you have no choice anymore. Our gas today is crap unless you buy the premium 92 octane! You must add fuel stabiliser to every filling of your gas can. To know how much to add, read the back of the label.

Yes blue should have a good coment.

But i remember there is Winter Gas, more volatile to improve evaporation in Colder months, that rapidly deteriorates when it gets warm.

And Summer fuel, less volatile so it doesnt rapidly boil away in summer heat, and wouldnt work well in a snowblower at 0.

I always run fresh fuel, burn off all old ( even 2 stroke mix) in my truck. it has eliminated many problems. Old gas with varnished carbs were the #1 reason for repairs in a lot of equipment that just wouldnt start at begining of the season.

Wheels.
These tiny engines usually only have one cylinder. They get one chance too fire for every time they turn over.
My 4 cylinder Saturn cruises around 2100 rpm when driving in the city.....35 mph. These little engines crank constantly at around 4000 rpm from the minute you start them up. (2-stoke snowblowers.)
My Saturn has a battery that kicks out the cranks....if something doesnt fire on the first stroke....it will just keep cranking it over until things start too happen. With  tiny engines you get one pull....5 or 6 spins too fire one plug.
It isnt because they are so finicky.....its just that everything they do is so critical. There is no over-engineering built into them. You can still start and drive your car if you have a bad exhaust valve....you may not even notice it as long as it starts and gets you down the road. There are 3,5 or 7 other cylinders that pick up the slack.
If you get some garbage gas from the station....Your car might not run exactly like it did new.....but it will usually run and get you too work until it uses up the fuel. You may have some pinging or missing...increase in fuel consumption and other complaints, but you will run it out in a week....and everything will get back too normal with the next fillup. (See how well your car would run after sitting in the drive for a year.) That never happens...unless it is going thru probate!
Gasoline goes bad! It doesnt burn as well at a year as it did when it was fresh. It's oxygenated and absorbs moisture. It doesnt have the same composition as it did in the old days. It's like wine that has had the cork pulled.
It's a testament that your tiller starts in the spring.  (Mine does too.) Sometimes we just get lucky....It shows how well tuned the rest of the critical components are. How well the little engines perform consider what we give them, it still amazes me.
As a considered estimate.....90% of the problems I see in snowblowers not starting are old fuel related. I would have starved too death years ago...if it wasnt for old fuel! Summer blend fuel, (left over from the lawnmower) poured on top of fuel that was there the last snowfall (I didnt blow last year...my neighbor had a new blower and did all the snow.) I spent the winter before in Florida.
Point is: Nobody likes running their fuel out on a nice day in the spring. Thats the last thing on anybodys mind. (Time too get the lawnmower running.) Stick the snowblower in the corner and forget about it . (Untill you find yourself one day standing a-hole deep in white stuff.)  Then it becomes a problem.
Snowblowers are no different than any other type of machinery. It's just when they are out of site....they are out of mind. They run on fuel....we feed them garbage.  Sub-freezing temperatures dont help.
No flame intended....just a day in the life of a snowblower.

MountainMan, do you have diesel?  I wouldn't think it safe to run in a gas truck. 

AJace wrote:

No. I have a F-150. Has a 30 gallon tank. I trow in gas any older than 2 months, or 50-1 mix older than a month or so. With the big tank, it never notices the stale fuel.

Someday I will go Diesel, especially if we see a Midsize or half ton diesel powered pickup. Ive been eyeing the Jeep Liberty CRD's that are due out soon. 30%+ better fuel economy, with almost no power loss.

I guess it wouldn't hurt either engine.  You appear to like your equipment.  I hear that Jeeps aren't good on trannys.   

I had a problem with crap gas twice last year.  Both times i believe I had sta-bil in it. 

It had been about a month from the last snowfall, so I started the Honda and made sure it ran good.  Then I bought "fresh"(watered maybe) 91 oct fuel and put sta-bil in the gas can before filling it up.  Topped off the tank in the morning (it was a third full), and it would not start. Me very mad.  Take out the plug, clean it, and it almost starts.  Repeat this 5 times.  Me angry.  Grab shovel, then get off to work.  Thinking about it at work, the only thing I did different was add fuel.  Went home, took different gas can to a different station, empty snowthrower,  drain carb bowl(easy on Hondas),fill up with different fuel and it starts with 2 pulls .  Since this was the second time that year this happened I did not buy gas from that station any more!

                                                  18 degrees

18Degrees wrote:
I'm not sure if what I'm about to write is productive or not - I honestly don't know what "productive is" on AbbysGuide, but hopefully this might lead to an answer.

Based on the quote above, it appears as though the Honda ran well with StoreX Gas.  Then, just after winter was over, you bought StoreX Gas, put sta-bil in it and topped off the tank.  Then it wouldn't start.  I'm wondering if your area of the country does what mine does - during the winter months, they change the gasoline to a gas-ethanol mix, and they were still selling that when you bought it.

If any of the small engine guys here would like to comment on ethanol I would appreciate it, as the above is only my guess.  Could you also tell us, was this gas from a national brand?

--SnowRemover

SnowRemover wrote:

The brand was Cenex, 91 Octane in the middle of winter (December2003).  Around here the 89 cotance had 10% ethanol label on it so I avoid it like a honey-do.  I think maybe it was water in there ground tank, but maybe it is like you said SnowRemover.  No problems from gas from 2 other stations (91 octane).                                                  

                                                    18 degrees

Some interesting facts about gas that i learned years ago,  when helping on tank additions at several bulk plants, gas is gas, and for a given octane rating all the fuel delivered from a given bulk plant comes from the same tanks regardless of the retailer brand its going to, no matter if its a "name" brand station or the local convience store. the difference is the type and quantity of additives added to the fuel at the time its dispensed at the bulk plant.  a good example of this, was a sinclair bulk plant i was working in & the only bulk storage facility in something like a 250 mile radius, on a given day, one would see several trucks from the different brands all transporting fuel from this one plant, not only sinclair, but texico, conoco, amaco, & union 76 included. What i was told by plant help was each "brand name"specified the types and quantities of additives added to the fuel at the time of loading onto the transports. in addition to this, many of the local small stations & donut stores suffer from inconsistant fuel quality, (in some cases at least) because they purchase fuel from different transporters depending on who sells it cheaper at the time, thus there is no consistancy in the additives used in the fuel they are supplied with.

Hi Everybody!

I think 'Lint hit on most of the talking points in his post.  My only comment is the higher volatility winter gas should not generate any storage issues from December thru March, if the OPE 5 gallon can is kept in an unheated garage or storage shed.  Oxidation activity in gasoline is highest in warmer temperatures.

While it is a good practice to empty the OPE 5 gallon can into a vehicle at the end of each month, to insure fresh gas, I would'nt worry about it in the winter months.

As far as octane, most small engines require 87 minimum, and premium gas, other than the higher detergent levels with some brands, will not achieve any performance gains.  Higher octane gas has a slower "flame front" for proper ignition in high compression engines and doesn't really have a higher energy value.

As SpottedPony indicates, multiple brands are supplied from the same pipeline bulk terminal storage tank, with the only difference being the brand specific additives.

Here is a link to Chevron with some good info on the use of ethanol reformulated/oxygenated gas.

http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/oxy-nona/concerns.shtml

Blue

Don't even get me started on Wisconsin's lovely reformulated gas (Thanks Tommy Thompson!) which is more expensive than other states' gas, reduces gas mileage (are we helping the environment yet? ) and has shown to damage cars by clogging fuel injectors, etc.  

So we are paying more to reduce our mileage and wreck our cars......yup, that was quite the beneficial deal for our state....

Paula

LOL, yeah, Paula, we did have an episode with clogged fuel injectors in the Milwaukee area.

But cut Tommy some slack!   After stepping down from his cabinet post , he's currently unemployed!

A high percentage of the problems were traced back to Citgo gas & probably some problems at the Citgo refinery in Lemont, Illinois.

I always run a bottle of Techron fuel injector cleaner every 3-4 months to avoid these problems.

That is why I like to avoid buying gas when I am near Milwaukee.  Forced ethnol=poopy.                                                 18 degrees

When I purchased my Stihl chainsaw, the dealer said the number one problem with all the repairs on Huskies and Stihl is people leaving gas in them.   He said if you are not going to use it in a week- to dunp it in your car. (Also to run the carb empty).

                                                                                          18 degrees

18Degrees

You may already be aware of this, but to avoid that 'poopy' gas, some of the out lying areas from Milwaukee (Jefferson county is one I know of for sure, but there are others), still have the regular, nonformulated gas.  Whenever I get out that way, I run my tank as emtpy as I can and then fill up when I am there.  I definitely notice a change in mileage. 

Blue

Funny.....now that Tommy is unemployed after his stint as Secretary of Health & Human Services (such a natural lateral move from his previous job as Govenor...), wonder if we'll see more of him in Wisconsin again?  I'm sure he'll want to stay and enjoy the effects of the increased prices and decreased quality of gas, the stadium tax to pay for the stadium for the highly rated Brewers who were just sold and the increased property taxes despite the promise of bringing in the lottery would make all of our taxes across the board go down?  Yeah...I'll bet he's looking at property here as we speak! 

Paula

Paula

            I live on the west coast of Wisconsin, but my travels bring me to the east side of the state sometimes.

                                                                              thanks               18 degrees