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mikiewest


Joined: Dec 29, 2007
Points: 262

Ariens is at it again.......
Original Message   Aug 28, 2010 7:16 am
Why must Ariens always try to give the appearance that you are getting more with their snowblowers?????For instance,Toro power max 1028OXE has a 305cc B&S engine.But Ariens has a" 305cc Ariens Polar Force Engine by B&S on their  Pro 26"Am I missing something ??I doubt B&S manufactures .a special polar force engine for Ariens lol.Also they have an ice drill manual chute control translation ...chute rotator and they have an (xs aluminum gear box )translation....aluminum gear box....Memo to Ariens your not fooling anyone into believing that yours is better  lol....That's what I like about Toro and Honda they keep it simple and their products speak for themselves....
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mikiewest


Joined: Dec 29, 2007
Points: 262

Re: Ariens is at it again.......
Reply #5   Aug 29, 2010 9:33 am
"game boy plastic chute'..I like that lol.....
borat


Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Points: 2692

Re: Ariens is at it again.......
Reply #6   Aug 29, 2010 10:04 am
The sad part is that Ariens spent decades building top notch machines , developing a very good reputation and loyal following.   Now that they've stooped to throwing together sub-Ariens quality machines, it will tarnish their hard earned reputation.  They'd be wise to pull a Chinese style marketing trick and change the name of the cheap machines to Errens. 
mikiewest


Joined: Dec 29, 2007
Points: 262

Re: Ariens is at it again.......
Reply #7   Aug 29, 2010 4:54 pm
well mm maybe you haven't been on the ariens website recently.The sno tek uses "strong polymer chute".I will bet  my house that toros polymer chute is way more durable than ariens.But I guess pt barnum was right.So there is a market for those machines....
aa335


Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434

Re: Ariens is at it again.......
Reply #8   Aug 29, 2010 11:04 pm
Just for my own curiosity, I looked at Arien's updated website.   They no longer have the THF chute (Taller Higher Farther).  The chute is no worse or better than other metal chutes of recent snowblowers.  No need to make big hoopla over nothing.

Just to ease anyone's angst about aluminum gear case, Arien's is XS heavy duty gear case.  :)  Not sure what the XS stands for (maybe Xtra Special) , but heavy duty seems reassuring tough.  :)  I'm sure that after someone claims their cast iron gear case is heavy duty, aluminum may appear inadequate.

In fairness to Ariens though, there's nothing wrong with aluminum gear case.  The durability of the auger drive system depends on more than just the material of the case. 

I'm sure that manufacturing, sales, and parts support are doing fine, but Ariens should reconsider revamping the marketing department to inject some reality and sophistication in their marketing media.
This message was modified Aug 30, 2010 by aa335
mml4


Snow is good,
Deep snow is better!


Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Points: 544

Re: Ariens is at it again.......
Reply #9   Aug 30, 2010 9:32 am
mikiewest wrote:
well mm maybe you haven't been on the ariens website recently.The sno tek uses "strong polymer chute".I will bet  my house that toros polymer chute is way more durable than ariens.But I guess pt barnum was right.So there is a market for those machines....


C'mon Mikie-Apples to apples. The Sno Tek line isn't meant to compete with the 2 stage Toros but rather to be a less expensive alternative.

May I suggest we agree to compare units from the  different manufacturers that are at the same price point. 

Marc

SnapperV210P,Toro22177,TroyBilt42010Snowthrower,Craftsman Shredder,American Turbo Pressure Washer HondaGX200,Stihl011Saw,EchoPas260Trimmer Edger,EchoPB602Blower,EchoHCR150Hedge Clipper
aa335


Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Points: 2434

Re: Ariens is at it again.......
Reply #10   Aug 30, 2010 1:43 pm
mml4 wrote:
Mikie &aa-It's hard to enter into a discussion of this kind without sounding condescending,arrogant or self important so let me  say that is not my intent and I trust you will take my word for it.

The reality is that displacement and torque ratings (cc&ft. lbs.) don't make engines the same. How is a manufacturer to indicate their engine is different from a competitors if the engine is produced by the same vendor and has the same displacement?

Is the language used to describe the chute control a little flamboyant? Perhaps, but you & I are "into " snow removal at a different level than 99% of the rest of humanity. "Ice auger" to my mind simply indicates that the chute control will work even in iced up conditions. If you ever owned a machine where this wasn't the case you have no idea what a "pita" that is. More importantly how is a manufacturer to indicate a difference in their machine other than to bring it to the attention of the consumer by using language that says"Hey,look at this". 

I am far more offended by Toro's fairy tale of not having shear pins and insisting that their gear box will survive anything. They simply put the pins in a non traditional place in the drive system and call them by another name. Their "Game Boy" plastic chute control has evolved into a machine that is more plastic than steel. I for the life of me can't understand why this has been accepted as being a good thing. Yes it works ok in powder conditions but try it on a Cul De Sac in the North East where the plows leave the EOD in what ammounts to an icy glacier 10' wide. There -not so good. The plastic dosen't hold up.

I know this  comment is going to bring rain but having purchased a Honda for my Brother In Law as a house warming gift and both using and working on it I would never buy another. The engine and drive are first rate but the chasis is under designed for use in areas  as described above. They also refuse to change the design so that it is comfortable for an operator over 5"8"tall and the charged for handle extensions offer very little in the way of relief. Tracks are great until you have to make a turn and wrestling one around a garage is no fun. Users with gravel drives have complained forever about them digging in and Honda's response has been to offer an accessory set of skids(extra charge) with reportedly mediocre results.This brings us to their wheeled machines which have no differential available  and for what you get are perhaps the lowest value of any unit on the market.

I don't think Ariens units are perfect but do appreciate the fact they produce a machine for every user from budget to Pro. They also keep parts availability current for units that are ancient by OPE standards and are available everywhere, They also provide after market parts through their Stens subsidiary which is a great alternative for those of us trying to keep antique machines of all brands running.

I could continue but run the risk of being labeled an "Ariens Toady". Let me close by saying  because they  sell their budget lines through box stores where set up and service is suspect their reputation has taken a hit. I am sure they are aware of this but weighed against the current forces in the market  they have determined it necessary to stay in business. Who am I to question that decision? The market will dictate the wisdom of their decision and from what I understand they are doing pretty well.

Please excuse the rant,

Marc

 
Marc,

Not to start any flame wars, but I'll say as I see it in case someone is contemplating on getting a shiny new Honda to consider carefully.  Having owned Honda's biggest two stage (HS1132), I can safely say as much as I am impressed with it's snow removing capability and the power, quietness, and smoothness of the engine, it is the machine that gives me frustration in handling as well.  The steering could use differential trigger lock in which you let one side of the tracks free wheel while the other is powered.  The side skids should be longer and wider to allow the bucket to float over pavement or road surface irregularities. 

As far as the handle height, I find it is perfect for me.  However, the handle could use another 5 inches further back behind the rear wheels and spaced wider apart to give me more leverage.  Toro has this just right, IMO.  Push the handle down and the bucket just rise effortlessly.  Push the handle left and right and the bucket changes direction instantly.  I also like Toro's "gameboy" QuickStick chute control, despite being plastic.  It is quick alright, but has nowhere the precision of a geared chute control. 

If and when Yamaha markets and sells their snowblowers in the US which offer these features that makes it more friendly, I'd gladly trade in the Honda for a Yamaha.  Honda hasn't seen serious competition lately so they won't listen to customers and change a thing.  Rest assured, the Honda you buy in 2005 is the same as one in 2010.  The Honda kicks butt when it comes to throwing snow where you want it.  But it also demands physical and mental concentration so that it doesn't start taking you over and dragging you along for a walk.  It is a 250 lb mechanical bulldog.
This message was modified Aug 30, 2010 by aa335
mml4


Snow is good,
Deep snow is better!


Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Points: 544

Re: Ariens is at it again.......
Reply #11   Aug 30, 2010 3:05 pm
aa- Your comments regarding handle placement and balance are spot on.I have the last generation TroyBilt before MTD took them over. The machine was built for them by Bolens and is an 824. It weighs 290LB. but is so well balanced you would never imagine it was that heavy. 

Having experienced a machine with a differential I would never consider one  without it.

Another item rarely dicussed is  tires. I changed out  Carlisle Snow Hogs for a set of X-Tracs at a friends suggestion. The difference is day and night. I've had machines with chains in the past and can honestly say the X-Tracs are every bit as good. This with the added bonus of not having damage to the black top or concrete.

92 degrees here on Long Island and I'm dreaming of snow-

Marc

SnapperV210P,Toro22177,TroyBilt42010Snowthrower,Craftsman Shredder,American Turbo Pressure Washer HondaGX200,Stihl011Saw,EchoPas260Trimmer Edger,EchoPB602Blower,EchoHCR150Hedge Clipper
mikiewest


Joined: Dec 29, 2007
Points: 262

Re: Ariens is at it again.......
Reply #12   Aug 30, 2010 6:55 pm
get ready mm hurricane ed is coming fri to L.I.
Snowmann


Joined: Dec 3, 2003
Points: 494

Re: Ariens is at it again.......
Reply #13   Sep 2, 2010 10:19 pm
mml4 wrote:
C'mon Mikie-Apples to apples. The Sno Tek line isn't meant to compete with the 2 stage Toros but rather to be a less expensive alternative.

May I suggest we agree to compare units from the  different manufacturers that are at the same price point. 

Marc



Not necessary Marc. The Sno-Tek chute is equal or better than the Toro PowerMax chute. The main chute body is made from virgin high-end (6.9 melt index) HDPE with a -105F brittle temperature and .180" wall thickness. Most plastic chutes are .125 or .150 (the Toro PowerMax chute is however equal in thickness at .180"). Also, every attachment point on the Sno-Tek chute is reinforced with steel backing plates (also with a steel hinge and 17 steel rivets, not depicted). The deflector cap and handle are also made from steel (steel parts are shown in yellow). This is not the case on the Toro.

Along with extensive field testing, this chute was impacted 90,000 cycles with a pneumatic cylinder at -15F with no damage, then impacted repeatedly with a .50" steel ball shot from an air tank/gun at 100psi at -15F with only small surface dings resulting (air gun fixture pictured). No cracks, no shattering. The old timers here on this forum might remember that this was not the case with the early PowerMax chutes and impeller housings (~2004?).

As mentioned above, the price disparity between the Sno-Tek and PowerMax isn't small. The Sno-Tek line top to bottom costs roughly half of the Toro PowerMax line, yet still posses an equivalent (or better) chute. Mikie, in lieu of you forfeiting the deed to your house (we can't leave you homeless), please leave a dollar or two in the nearest Children's Hospital donation can when you see one ;-)

  

This message was modified Sep 3, 2010 by Snowmann
mikiewest


Joined: Dec 29, 2007
Points: 262

Re: Ariens is at it again.......
Reply #14   Sep 3, 2010 10:38 pm
You are correct once again snowmann.The plastic chute is sooo good that Ariens has it on all their machines like Toro haha haaa.How do you know what tests Toro conducted on their chutes??So now you work for Ariens and Toro??Snowmann instead of your company wasting $$ on some geek in a suit coming up with fancy names ,i.e. ice drill manual chute control,THF chute(I think all companies now have machines with taller chutes LOL),Polar Force Engine...what the heck is a polar force engine??I dont know.Does anyone know??B&S doesnt know..Oh yea your geek in suit came up with that lol.Ariens should ask themselves cant we build a machine that doesnt need modifications every year??Does your company have all the engineer graduates with 1.5 gpa's??What is it, everytime your co puts out a machine ,the engineers say darn we forgot to add that piece.Oh well we will add it next yr and give it a cool sounding name lol.
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