Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Hi,
I am looking to purchase a new snowblower in about a week, and have narrowed it down to these 3, though its not going to be an easy decision.    Any help would be greatly appreciated. 
The Ariens has the automatic differential which seems very nice, though it seems to have a different engine than the other 2 (not a Snowmax engine, I don't know what the difference is)? 
The Toro has a nice chute joystick and seems well balanced. No heated hand grips.  Do the wheel releases on the Toro or Simplicity have any chance of icing up?
 I like the Simplicity's strong frame, and the electric chute is nice too.  One wheel release vs Toro's 2?

Anything I should consider when looking at these 3? The 24" Simplicity also looked really nice, just from a smaller more manageable size point of view. 

Thanks

Is that the Simplicity 24" Pro model you're looking at? If so, It's a nice machine but a bit pricey at $1850.00. The only other 24" machine is the intermediate. For the money, I suspect it's not too bad. Personally, I'd be looking at the 1428. It's priced at $1500.00 and is a very competent machine. I own one and have nothing but praise for it.

After much research and excellent advice from the guys on this board I purchased a Simplicity 24" 9 HP (B&S) snowblower last year. The Simplicity is exceptionally well made, all-steel construction, and that 9 HP Briggs & Stratton motor is music to my ears. I can't speak for the other products you mentioned but I am thrilled with my Simplicity...I highly recommend their products.

My advice is only for the three you listed because I assume that you are willing to spend the money that these machines cost - around the ceiling of $2k.


Out of the three I would forget about the Ariens.  I think it has less value than the other two for the price you pay.  Engine is not a Max series as you stated and other parts are cheaper, which are hard to see unless you take it apart.  The snow series max engines have a cast iron sleeve inside the cylinder instead of an aluminum wall.

Out of the remaining two it is a hard decision.  Both are really good products.  The Toro is more similar to the Simplicity Large Frame throwers, not the professional models.

I would need more information to help you decide between them.  What is the drive way like?  Average snowfall?  Your local prices for both?


If the Simplicity is less or same price as Toro then I would go with the Simplicty.  But before you decide check out both and ask if you can test drive them.  If they are a good shop they should let you try a machine, especially at the price of $2k.

I might be wrong but I don't think the snow max engine has a cast iron cylinder liner. Pretty sure all of their Snow and Snow Max engines have their Kool Bore cylinders. Which means that they're aluminum bore. I think the main difference between the Snow and Snow Max is that the Max has a variable throttle.

I double checked their website to make sure and it states that they have a cast iron sleeve.

Not sure what site you're looking at but here's a link to the B&S Snow Max engine line up. I've compared their largest and smallest engines. Both show Kool Bore.

Also, I have a Simplicity with a 305cc Snow Max engine.....it has a Kool Bore aluminum cylinder.

B&S definition of Kool Bore:

Cylinders:

Kool Bore™ Machined aluminum cylinder bore. Lightweight and corrosion resistant.


http://www.briggsandstratton.com/engine_power/view_compare.aspx

ope is correct borat.sno series max has cast iron sleeve.Click on specifications and u will see....

Just when I think I have the Simplicity eliminated from my choices, I read threads like this one. Oy vey! :-)

Bob

Thanks for the correction Mikie.

I went to a different web page for B&S and found the snow engines. It does appear that the new Snow Max engines have the cast iron liner. Is that a recent change? I went and had another look at my engine. It's not a Snow Max. It's an Intek Snow engine and I'm sure it has an aluminum bore. It would appear that B&S have changed their snow engine lineup since my Simplicity was built. If you look at the new Snow engine, it doesn't appear to have an adjustable throttle. The Snow Max does and mine does as well.

Not that the cast bore really matters. Not sure if a cast iron bore is really necessary for winter operating conditions. The Kool Bore engine is supposed to run cooler than a cast liner and being that it's not being operated in a dusty environment it's unlikely that a lot of abrasive particles will cause premature wear of the cylinder. If I had a choice of the cast over the aluminum, I'd take it but I wouldn't pay a premium for it on a snow thrower. If it were on a warm weather, dusty environment machine, I definitely want the cast bore.

Borat,
Yes, the 24" was the professional model. 

I am willing to spend around $2,000, which all these machines are.  The 28" Simplicity is the most (about , then the Toro and Ariens are about the same.  I do like the idea of the cast iron sleeve, but I suppose its not a deal breaker.  I live in Mass, and have a two car driveway, about 150' long.  I do get a huge amount of snow at the end of the driveway, which is why I am leaning toward the 28" machines.  I plan to keep it in either the garage, or shed.  If I keep it in the shed it is about 250' away, over grass and up a ramp so I do know if that makes any difference or not.  I do have a few walkways around the house that I would probably keep clear too.

Are there any con's to the Toro and Simplicity wheel unlock mechanisms?  If I pull the two Toro triggers to unlock both drive wheels, spin it around then release the triggers to engage the drive is there potential for long term wear? 
If I am going up an icy ramp to the shed is there a benefit to either the locked two wheel drive for the Toro and Simp. or the differential on the Ariens?

Man this is going to be a tough decision, but I need to make it soon before the snow flys :) 

Thanks everyone for your help.

Any of the machines you've mentioned will get the job done. That's for sure.

Considering the number and lengths of paths you plan to clear, I'd lean toward the 24" Simplicity. It will be easier to turn around in tight spots. As far a needing a larger machine for end of driveway deposits, I'd stick with the 24" there as well. What's important for EOD snow is power and the ability to chew into the hard pack. I have the 28" and there's no real advantage to extra width when clearing the end of the driveway. Being that the 24 Pro has the same power as the 28" large frame, I'm sure it will be up to the task.

Regarding the Easy Turn feature. It's most useful when re-positioning the machine. Particularly when the engine is off. That's it. When actually throwing snow, I alway have the wheels locked. That's where the traction is. I have a large driveway with a 10% grade. The Simplicity has no problem moving snow either uphill or downhill.

When you decide on a machine and make your purchase, I suggest you do a little extra prep work when you get it home. There's plenty of advice here on easy but important things to look for and do if the dealer missed them.

Good luck.

borat wrote:
Any pointers by any chance where to find this sort of info. I tried some search with no luck. My 828OXE is 'bout to be delivered so I'd like to go over before putting to use. Thanks.
Ruhi

I really like the 24" bucket, but I am leaning towards the 28 because of the increased power ( i know its only 14.50 to 15.50 increase in torque), but the displacement goes from 305 to 342cc.  I am wondering if the larger displacement will be better in the longer run.

Has anybody been having trouble with the electric chute?  I wonder what the price is from Simplicity for the motor.  ( I would probably buy one or two to keep for the long haul in case they stop making them). 

The Toro might be nice with the "power steering" but I wonder how that actually works in the field.  Simplicity just does one wheel, so I guess only power steering to the right?

I will go over the unit and check bolts, grease, etc..  I have a tube of the Mobil 1 synthetic grease that I use on my lawn tractor which works well.

To answer some questions you have raised:


If you can afford the bigger Simplicity than I would go for it.  The only advantage it has is the larger bucket, which decreases the amount of swaths.  It can decrease up to one or more passes depending on the driveway width.  Remember the engines are spec'd to accommodate the max capacity of the larger bucket.  If put onto the same machine, in reality I don't think you will see too much of a difference in terms of power between the two engines.  If the Simplicity 24 is a bit less and closer in price to the Toro then go for it instead.

The remote triggers on both the Toro and Simplicity are designed to be used while the drive lever is engaged.  On the Toro you can squeeze both triggers, and the machine will be in neutral.  The drive lever will be engaged but because of the two squeezed triggers the machine will not move.  Once you release the triggers the machine will move forward.  The Simplicity is a bit different.  It only unlocks one wheel but still drives the other one when you squeeze the trigger.  You will only use these features to turn the machines around.  Once in a straight line again you should use both wheels to drive forward.  Minor corrections in steering are very easy and don't require an assist.  Only turning the machine 90-180 degrees.

I think if you go with either the:

Simp pro 24
Simp pro 28
Toro 1128oxe

You will make a good choice.  All three are very capable machines.  But Simplicity/Toro are a bit different in terms of their overall feel in respect to handling.  This is why I think you should try them out, even just rolling them around on two wheels in the show room.  Decide after getting a feel for them, if you haven't already.

Then think of dealer impressions, and finally price between all three.

Guinness wrote:
I have a John Deere 1130 SE with an electric chute and the 1130 is made by Simplicity.  Not sure, but I'd be surprised if they used a different supplier for the electric chute motor.  The label on my electric chute motor is part number 210-1011 made by AM Equipment.  It's just like the one for $25.99+shipping from the site below.  The gear is different and is easily replaced with the one from the snowblower. 

http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/AME-210-1011.html

RuhiA wrote:
The following actions apply to both new and used machines:

First thing I'd do is pull the wheels off and use a good water resistant grease to lube the axles. Snowmobile grease is great for snow throwers. Although not necessary, I like to use an outdoor cable/chain/gear grease in a spray can (motorcycle chain lube will do) to lube the drive chains inside the chassis. Make sure you cover the friction plate and drive disk before applying the grease to the chains. You don't want to get any on them. Lube all friction points for the controls. While you're in there, put a thin layer of oil on the hex shaft. I like to use a light spray grease on pivots and light multi purpose oil to spray into the insides of any cables. Grease the auger shaft.

Check belts for condition and proper tension. Go over all fasteners with a wrench to tighten anything that might be loose. Make sure you're fuel tank is clean and passing fuel to the carb. If the machine is running well, chances are they're fine. If there's no obvious leaking at the auger drive gear case, I leave it as is. As long as there's lube inside and it doesn't have a catastrophic event, it should last the life of the machine without messing with it. Others might disagree but I've never had one leak nor changed fluid in one in twenty years.

borat, Those are all very good suggestions.  I made a mistake several years ago and didn't grease the wheel axles and couldn't believe how they rusted.  Didn't make it very easy to remove later.  Now I grease everything.  I also use silicone spray on all metal parts.  Keeps thinks looking new.

Borat,
Thanks for the outline to going over the machine and lubing it up.  I am sure that will help with the longevity. 

Catt,
Thanks for positng that link.  That seems like a cheap enough price to keep one in the toolbox as a backup. I wonder if the gear is available separately or on the motor through Simplicity. 

OPE,
I rolled them around the showroom today.  They all seem to be pretty well balanced ( I think the Toro was the best in that regards, it does seem a little shorter in length compared to the Simplicity and Ariens). 

The automatic diff of the Ariens was nice ( not worrying about triggers could be a plus)  I wonder what the longevity of the differential is.  The overall feel of the machine seemed pretty heavy duty.  The impeller seemed larger than the Simplicity and Toro ( The bucket seemed higher as well, I dont know if increased snow capacity makes a big difference though).  What parts did you say were not as good as the Simp or Toro?  I wonder if not having the cast iron sleeve will severely limit engine longevity. The chute control seemed decent.  Lifting it up and moving it was a just a little more work then using the Toro joystick or the Simplicity electric ones.   It seems like the Simplicity controls might be more protected from the snow than the Arien's or Toro. 

Considering the working environment that snow throwers are operated in (cool temps and clean air), I'm not too concerned that my engine has the aluminum bore. If it were a summer application, I'd have more confidence in a cast cylinder sleeve. Chances are that the engine will last as long as the machine it's mounted on if it's properly lubricated. These new synthetic oils are pretty slippery and I'd suspect provide more than adequate protection for engine internals. This is the only engine i have that I run synthetic oil in. Not so much due to the aluminum bore as much as it is for ease of starting and quicker oil circulation. I wouldn't sweat the aluminum/cast cylinder issue. After all, a new B&S engine can be had for around $300.00. A Chinese clone can be had for half that. Hardly makes repairing an engine worth the effort/cost.

Thanks,
I will use synthetic on whatever one I get, it can't hurt!

I must order this thing this week, I am probably thinking about it way to much. 

Has anybody had a wife use their snowblower?  I was thinking if I was not home in an emergency, then my wife may need it.  Would she be better off using the Ariens because of the ATC ( no triggers to worry about), or go for the triggers on one of the others?

I have had my wife use the machine that I replaced, a 15-20 year old Ariens ST824 and it was not very well balanced, she had trouble keeping the bucket on the ground. I recently picked up a Simplicity L1428 and it seems to have more weight forward, an advantage for someone that does not have the arm strength to squeeze the grips and still hold the bucket down. The grips on the Simplicity felt lower and also being newer easier to pull.

As for me , yes size was a consideration as I work 35 miles form home and my wife is a teacher, so when the weather gets bad, she is home and feels the need to try her best to keep up, even with a 4' or better EOD plow ridge. I try to make it as easy for her as I can. Pick your battles kind of thing.

At the risk of sounding sexist, you should understand the following:

Women and gizmos don't mix. Keep things as simple as possible. Buy a straight forward machine that is easy starting, has good power, simple controls, good balance and nice to handle. If you start making things complicated, it will turn a woman off quicker than shopping in an empty store.

Well, after spending too much time looking at all the choices, I made my decision.  I even threw Honda into the mix.  The Honda was nice, but  it was far more difficult to move around than the others (maybe someday they will put some sort of differential on it.  I ended up going with the Ariens Pro 28, the differential on that unit was just better than everything else (not having any triggers to worry about is very simple, and hopefully will prove to be the most reliable), and the overall of the design is fairly simple.  The construction of the Ariens seems really good, and even though it weights almost 300 lbs, is very easy to move around.  It is too bad the Simplicity did not have two triggers like the Toro, that could have made me sway that way.  I went with the 28" to get the larger 342cc engine.  Hopefully I made the right choice, can't wait to try it out on some snow! 

Thanks everyone for your help!

Well, I finally got to use my new toy last night.  We had about 6 inches of heavy heavy wet snow.  The snowblower through it pretty far, in some cases it looked like a big water gun the snow was so wet.  I am very happy (so is my back).  My wife was able to make a pass with it as well, so it looks like she will be able to use it in an emergency if I am not there! 

I sprayed everything down with corrosionx to help prevent rusting, though I would like to use something else (that stuff is expensive).  Anybody have any experience with PB Corrosion Stop, or recommend something else?

Thanks!