Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I've been researching the snow blower market for the past 2 years.  I live in Fort Collins, CO where we get 6-12 snowfalls a year in the 4-8" range.  Once in a while we get a big one of 12"+.  Last year we got nearly 3', but this is the rare exception.  The type of snow varies quite a bit.  Sometimes it's wet (great for snowmen) and sometimes it's like powder.  I have a 3 car garage on an otherwise standard lot.  Very slight downgrade.

Based on the average snowfall, the amount of area that I want to clear, and the storage space I have available in my garage, I think a single stage is the best option for me.  In fact, only about 1 out of every 10 houses around here has a snowblower of any kind.  So, I'm right in that grey area of justification -- do you really need one.  Frankly, since I've been here (only 4 years), the answer is a resounding, "Yes."

I've read countless pages on 2-stage vs. 1-stage.  Feel free to repeat the arguments, but I'm pretty certain that the 1-stage is all I want or need.  Similarly, there are lots and lots of comparisons between the 2-Stage big 3:  Ariens, Toro, and Honda.  There's lots of commentary on the MTD series:  Yardman, Whites, Craftsman, Frontier, etc.  Still not clear to me where Husqvarna fits in here -- read once that they were just another MTD/Craftsman machine.

What I don't see is comparisons between the 1-stage machines.  I've seen some reviews on the Toro CCR 3650GTS and some on the Honda HS520.  Virtually nothing on the Ariens 522 or 722.  Even less on the Husqvarna 1-stage.  Forget about finding good info on the White/MTD designs.

I had been leaning toward the Toro, but am concerned about the new product offering (it dropped the 2450/3650 for new machines).  It put in a new chute control gizmo and I'm hesitant to be the guinea pig.  Toro is also the most expensive list priced machine out there.

Ariens tends to be the hands-down favorite in 2-stage value.  Great machines that are almost always priced less than comparable offerings from the other big players.  But there seems to be a deafening quietness when it comes to its single-stage machines.  The 722EC looks to have great specifications and much more powerful than competitors -- 40% more hp than the standard 5hp machines out there.

Honda, ironically, looks like a value in the single-stage department.  Weird, considering that you're over $2,000 for one of its 2-stage machine and that won't even get you basic features like electric start or a headlight.  Yet, the 4-stroke, 5hp, reportedly torquey HS520A is priced at $600 locally.  E-Start isn't important to me at all.

Right now, I'm favoring the Honda 520 and don't feel like I could go wrong with this purchase.  However, I wanted to ask the question before I plunk down the cash.

Thanks.

67L48,
I don't think your decision of going with a single stage is a bad idea.  Sure they have their limit, but a single stage will take care of 90-95% of the snow you will deal with.  I live in Amherst, NY which is a suburb of Buffalo.  We get our share of lake effect snow here and most homes have a snowblower.  The past two years I've been using a Toro 2450 manual start and it has not let me down.  It handles whatever you throw at it including what I get at the EOD.  Granted, I don't get a ton of snow dumped at the EOD.  You do have to work at it more than with a 2 stage.  The Honda unit you are looking at is probably the one I see sold at Home Depot around here.  It is about the same size as my 2450, so maneuverability is probably the same.  I would stick with Toro and Honda for a single stage.  You can now get the Toro singe with a 4 cycle engine but I'm not sure how the HP measures up to the Honda.  Mine has the 2 cycle engine and besides being a bit smoky at first start up, it runs very well and it is nice not to have to worry about oil levels and oil changes.  I would personally pick one of the new Toro single stages with the new chute control set up.
-Steve

Why 2 Stage??             EOD !!

                                          Fred

jubol, my mistake.  I thought you recommended the Ariens single-stage and then mentioned that EOD is a problem.  Didn't realize that you said *2-stage.*  Sure, if I was in the 2-stage game, Ariens is my top choice.  But, I'm not.  Though I'm in a standard subdivision, in the 4 years I've lived in this house, our street almost never gets plowed.  It's weird, but EOD just isn't a concern for me.

I went today to look at the Toro and the Honda -- the Ariens dealer was on the other side of town and I didn't feel like the 20 minute drive.

Toro's new chute control is nice.  Really nice.  Otherwise, the 5.5 hp 4-str Tecumseh Snow King engine seems about the same (on paper) as the Honda 5.0 hp 4-str OHV engine -- I'm guessing that the 10% hp rating increase on the Toro is not noticeable.  Also, the Toro is 21" wide by 12.5" high intake versus Honda's 20" x 12" intake.  I'm not seeing much difference there.  The weights, dimensions, and housings all looked almost identical.

The Honda chute control is actually pretty nice, if not no-frills.  The metal hoop is very long and easily reachable by me (5'11") while comfortably standing behind the machine in a "normal operating stance."  Not as nice as Toro's zip deal, but very accessible -- much more so than the hoops on the Toro 2450 or SnowCommander, e.g.

Honda states a throw distance of 26' versus Toro's 35'.  That's interesting, especially when considering that Honda actually states a higher capacity at 55 tons per hour versus Toro's 1,800 lbs/min (54 tons/hr).

The Toro is for sale at the list of $760 (no deals to be had) and the Honda is below list at $600 (and comes with a free cover, for whatever that's worth).  Everything else being about equal, I ended up with the question of whether the Toro zip chute control was worth $160.  I'm leaning toward "no" right now.  I can see paying $50-$80 for that feature, but I don't think I value it for $760.  Since the dealer is stuck on MSRP, then I think that officially rules out the Toro.

67L48,

I am in the same boat with you debating 1 stage vs. 2 stage.  Last year I didnt do my research and I made a purchase I now regret.  I live in Wis. and we probably use the snowblower 10x a year.  8x are for smaller snows and 2x are for larger > 8" snowfalls.   I had been in the market for a new snowblower for awhile but rushed out before a big snow and bought an Ariens 520.    THis is a 5 HP 2 stage snow blower.    I knew this model only had 1 speed but they were sold out of the higher model that had multiple forward speeds.  WHat I learned was the one speed is very slow and it is very irritating to walk much slower than necessary to clear a 3" snow fall.

So...now I am trading that in and am wondering if I really need a 2 stage snowblower or if I should just go with the 1 stage model that would allow me to walk as fast as I want.  Yes, the heavier snowfalls would be a little more work, but that is only a couple times a year.  And the end of driveway is an issue for me as the snowplow can pile up a 4' pile after a large snowfall.  Get at it right away and the 1 stage would probably be OK but if it sits overnight and turns cold, then the 1 stage might not have the bite to get rid of that pile easily.

Anyway, I have heard from a lot of people around here that 1 stage is the way to go.    I looked at 1 stage models recently and my opinion is the Ariens is superior to the Toro.  The Toros looked more cheaply made.

I like the Ariens 722 model.  7 horsepower, 22" cut.  $650.   The knob to turn the chute direction is very easy to handle and very quick.  On the Toro the blue plastic handle that moves some cables to move the  chute direction seems like it would fail after awhile especially in wet, freezing weather.

I am interested in others' opinions, either on the 1 stage vs. 2 stage debate, or on the Ariens 722 model in particular.

WisBill wrote:
Thanks for the comments.  If you want to hear a 1-stage vs. 2-stage debate, I'd appreciate it if you could open a new thread.  I'd really like to keep this a 1-stage comparison thread.  Thanks.

I'm also in the market for a single stage snowblower. After years of looking at 2 stage and never pulling the trigger on one I decided this year to seriously look at single stage models.

I've gone to three shops to look. Shop #1 carried Honda and Toro. Salesman said Honda engines are the best on the market, neither need electric start so save the money, he liked the new Toro controls, said Honda chute control can sometimes extend too far out to the side and get in the way. Bottom line: he preferred Honda.

Shop #2 carried Simplicity and Toro. He said Toro has been in the market a long time and is real popular. Nothing wrong with them. He pointed out the auger on the Simplicity and said that the amount of metal on the auger of the Simplicity really helps. I asked him which brand and he said "Simplicity 2-stroke". I personally didn't like the way the chute crank worked on the Simplicity. It seemed kind of stiff and cheap when rotating 180 degrees.

Shop #3 carried Toro and Ariens. Again, he said nothing wrong with Toro and many people buy them and in fact he had the largest single stage Toro available which he likes except that for having to reach over the blower to swing the chute (similar to Honda) as this model didn't have chute controls near the handle. He talked about both the 5 and 7hp Ariens and said if I was looking at blowers of this size then he'd go with the Ariens over the Toro and he'd spend the extra $60 and go with the 7hp over the 5hp.

So, 3 shops, all carried Toro and "something else" and everyone said that they'd go with "something else".

What I'm leaning towards is the 7hp Ariens as I really like the lever that controls chute rotation vs. the crank on the others in that price range. I also believe that they'll replace (parts only) the rubber auger when and if it wears out. My 2nd choice would be the Honda based on it's great engine reputation.

Malms7 wrote:
Malms7,
Sounds like good researching you are doing.  I've only used the Toro single-stage so I can't speak to the Honda and Ariens models.  If I was buying early in the season as you are planning I'd look at the Arien's model as well.  If you wind up not buying one until later in the season (late Jan., early Feb.), Home Depot marks their blowers down 50% and that is how I got my Toro 2450 for $279.  It's a great machine for what I paid, but If were paying $600-700 I'd research the other brands real heard.  I wish I had remote chute control, but for my driveway and sidewalk it isn't totally necessary.  Good luck with whatever machine you get.
-Steve

"Weird, considering that you're over $2,000 for one of its 2-stage machine and that won't even get you basic features like electric start or a headlight."

That's one thing I find strange about Hondas sold in the US, some are very basic for the money. Up here in Canada I can assure you that my Honda has a headlight and its own standalone DC electric starter just like a car, turn the key and it starts even if its miles from the nearest outlet. I know some Hondas up here have AC starters instead but I don't think I have ever seen a two-stage model that didn't have a headlight. I know you can order a Canadian model through your dealer in the US and it used to be a fairly good deal but with current currency exchange rates it's probably not worth it.

I also think you'd be better off with a two-stage model but it mostly depends on how long you want to spend clearing snow and the level of physical effort you're willing/able to provide. Dry snow is not really a problem, even a single-stage blower will throw it a fair distance on first pass but heavier snow often requires 2 or more passes at the same spot where a two-stage machine may require only a single pass to get the job done and throw the snow where you want it to go. On the other hand, two-stage machines are self-propelled and much heavier which means that in order to work properly they need to be equipped with fairly larger engines. If physical effort is what one wants to lessen then a 6-hp two-stage will be better than a 5-hp single-stage... if one thinks paying 3X more is worth it, drivetrains are the most expensive part of a snowblower, especially when equipped with tracks instead of wheels. If time and throwing distance is what matters then one is better off with a heavy-duty two-stage machine, 8hp and above with price tags roughly ranging (for a decent quality machine) from $1500 to a whooping $8000 for the top-of-the-line Honda, which is nothing short of gigantic and overkill unless you're a contractor.               

Malms7 wrote:

OK, I pulled the trigger.   I bought the 7HP Ariens model, the 722.   $650 USD.

 I do like the chute control, since I change the direction of the chute each time you make a pass on the driveway, I want something I can change in 1

second.   Some snowblowers require you to turn some handle which you have to make about 5 revolutions on to change the chute from the far left to far right.  The ariens control is geared better so that moving

the knob from the left to the right moves the chute from the left to the right.      The 722 was only $50 more than the 5HP Ariens.   I figured going to the single stage (vs the slow 2 stage Toro I had) was a risk when

it came to the big heavy snows and the big pile at the EOD, so I thought the 2 extra HP would mitigate this risk.

As for the many Toro single stage models, it seemed to me the comparable HP models were 50 or 100 bucks more.   The sliding blue plastic bar which controlled the chute via some cables looked problematic to me.  I'm guessing that mechanism freezes up in certain conditions.     The top of the line "Snow Commander" Toro looked to be a little bigger and beefier than the Ariens 722, but it was 200 or 250 bucks more.

Anyway, now awaiting our first snow here in WIS so I can try it out.

I finally chose the Honda HS520A.  I like 4-stroke engines (nothing to do with environmental reasons), I like Honda engines, and I hate Toro's prices.

I bought through the Honda eStore (to get the free cover).  Word to the wise -- call your local dealer and make sure that they understand how it works, as it's very dependent on the individual dealership.  I screwed around with one dealer for a week before finally giving up and buying one at dealer #2.  Not going to bore you with the details, just make sure that if you go this route to call the dealer first.

Anyway, got the blower on the night before an expected snow fall.  Got just over 3" that night.  Blew the crap out of snow.  My initial impression was one of anger.  Anger at all the people who try to convince people to go to a 2-stage.  I stated the ~6" snow, normal residential driveway conditions here and still got people trying to sell me the 9 hp Ariens.  Anway, maybe my mind will change eventually, but the first snow was perfect and the little single-stage ate it up.  I know one guy who has a big 2-stage snowblower and was shoveling snow that day.  I didn't ask why, but I assume that it's because he felt a 2-stage is overkill for a 3" snowfall.  I know that I would have used any snowblower.  3" is enough snow that shoveling a triple-wide is still work.  If all I owned was a 13hp 32", I would have been out there with it!

Here's the bad news.  A guy one house over and two houses down from me also got a new single stage blower (looked like a Toro).  Why is this bad news?  Because, he started before me -- did his driveway, nearly all of the sidewalk on his side of the street and then did the sidewalks on my side of the street.  I was actually blowing my driveway when he started blowing my side walk ... and I live on a corner lot, so there's a lot of sidewalk.  That really pissed me off.  When I was done with my driveway, there was nothing left to blow -- the other guy did everything else within reasonable walking distance.  So, I was a little annoyed at the other guy's zeal, but it was nice of him to do so much work, I suppose.  I'm guessing that after the 3rd or 4th snowfall, neither of us will be as charitable, as our toys won't be new anymore.  ;-)