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ramit


Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Jul 28, 2005
Points: 45

Ariens Vs Toro
Original Message   Jul 28, 2005 8:05 pm
I've just spent a ton of time reading all the old posts on this forum from Jan 2005 till present.
Lots of cool info. And a few hot threads... I don't tend to repeat such an event in this thread.

I see a lot of Ariens owners on this site. But I've not seen those owners knocking Toro either.
So I figured it would be a good place to share my story and get some opinions to help finalize my selection.

I'll tell my story, honest and true, but it will sound a bit like trashing Craftsman, or maybe not... maybe it wasn't the right tool for the job?.

I've been shopping now for about a month for a new snowblower  and have come to some conclusions and have read a lot of  "Facts" or better put "statements".
I'd like to run them by the crew here as well.

First, my story and what I'm dealing with........
15 years ago, after getting into a very bad car accident due to the permant damage, I can no longer shovel the snow off my driveway.
So in a lurch that snow season I bought what I could afford. How could I go wrong with Craftsman? It was such a deal.

My driveway....
It's 150ft long, from the garage to the street, with the entire east side is up against a 6 ft fence on the property line.
On the west side, no easy access to get ride of the snow.
It's single width for most of it's length ( 10-11ft wide), except for the last 25feet, it's a bit over double width - 25ft wide.
The 1st 30 feet ( starting at my garage), my trailer blocks me from throwing snow to the rear lawn... there's about 10 feet of open space between the trailer and house. So starting at the garage, traveling north,  I blow the snow to that point on the drive way, across from the opening between the house and trailer.  I make a mound on the drive way to Que up the snow. Then as needed I work on the mound and  throw it to the rear lawn, easterly.
Then the next 44 feet of  the driveway is between the house on the west side and and the fence on the east side. So I start at the mid point of the house and go southernly, throwing  the snow to the Queing point on the drive way across from that opening to the rear lawn in front of the trailer, then once again as needed I work the mound and  blow that mound to the rear lawn. I may do it several times so the mound doesnt become too much for the blower.
Now I go back to the mid section of the house, and start blowing to the street end ( heading north) of the driveway making mounds and moving it to points on the driveway and eventually to the front lawn.  I can't use a plow, if I did, I would blow out my basement windows and fence.
And I'm at a dead end.. so I get the mother of EODs to deal with.... the whole front of my house is EOD, since I have to clear room for the mail box and for the mai truck to turn around and the double car width of the drive way.
I can amass 5 ft piles of snow with a 1 - 1.5 ft snow storm on my front lawn and on the rear lawn.
The drifts between my house and the fence have topped the 6 ft  fence  on a 45 deg angle once or twice.
The thing is the Craftsman doesn't throw very far, so on the rear lawn, it looks more like a sand dune and once the pile gets too big, I can throw over it.
And since it didn't throw far enough to start with, if I get too many snow storms I can have a problem if it doesn't melt inbetween.
And by the time the time I've made this dune, the snow has been moved so many times, it very compact and heavy and it's too much for the blower.
Been very lucky so far. And if I don't clean the drive way, with the melting and freezing we get, I wind up with ice and drainage problems.
So I have to get the snow off of the driveway.
I live on Long Island. One 2005 snow storm took me 4 hours to clean up, the other took me about 3 hours.
A few inches of snow.. takes about an hour and a half or a so. Never less than an hour's time.

So what I've been beating to death is a  25" 6HP 2stage Craftsman snowblower, which is about 15 years old now.
I'm handy and do most of my own auto work and home renovations,I can weld a bit and such.
All came in handy while owning the Craftsman.
Right from the get go, during the  the 1st year, I blew belts. I'm sure to blow one or more belts for the drive or the auger during a season.
After using up all the ones I orderd from Sears one seasons, I decide to replace them with automotive belts, which must of tripled my uptime between blowing up belts.

After the 10th year of owning this machine ( bought it new), I called sears parts, once again, to order some more spare parts  for stock so I can fix it when it breaks during the season and to my surprise they couldn't find my machine listed. After some discussion, the punchline was,  they said.....  "when a machine is 10 years or older, it's not in the system any longer since we do not expect it to still be in service" ..."and we may not stock the parts"  I quote.

So with the p/n's in hand I was still able to get friction disk and cable and shoes and some other hardware... all came not in sear bags as in past , but it was either YTD or MTD.. I'd have to go out to the workshop and look. All were correct and looked just like the original parts.

I've taken that machine apart so many times that the threaded holes in the sheetmetal were gone and I had to put PEM nuts in for the case so I could still screw it back together and take it apart as needed.
The front auger gear box is now ratteling around with tons of end play on each of the inputs of the three shafts. I'm afraid of that just come apart in pieces one year.
It's time to shoot it and put it out of it's missery.

The engine still runs strong, it's a Tecumseh SnowKing 6hp... still starts well. Just started using oil this year.
At the 10th year, had to replace the carb. Over the years I've had to unstick this, replace that, de-rust this to get something moving again in the "transmission" or drive disk housing. I guess pretty normal stuff considering?

So with all my problems I figured I was just over working this light duty machine ( or it's a POS?). So I started looking at the Ariens. A friend of mine from NH says that up there the machine of choice, and he owns, is a Toro.
I started reading that the Ariens don't really have the quaility they used to and parts are hard to come by and there are fewer and fewer authorized dealers each year.
As I looked around, everyone here sells Toro. I can't find a local shop selling Ariens. A few Polound (spelling) dealers.. never ran across that brand online during my research.

Last year was the first time I saw the HD ( the big orange box) selling Ariens. After visiting Ariens' website, I found that HD wasn't selling the better grade of Ariens either.
I have a bunch of good local dealers selling Toro.
After looking at both machines, the Toro's at the dealers and the Ariens at the HD, it seemed that the Toro had heavier steal and impressive braces from the outer ends of the front housing to the frame.

I do see both as premium brands. But is the Ariens that the HD is selling apple and oranges to the Toro's at the dealers?
Do I need to be looking at a better grade Ariens at a dealer?
Or am I just not seeing a good comparasion since they aren't truly side by side?
Again I read statements else where saying that the lesser grade of Ariens doesn't use as thick of metal, no real bearings-just bushing and such.

I've come to think I should buy a 10hp 28" snowblower to get it as far as possible and to deal with my EOD and Queing piles.
Smaller opening and more power = more power to push out the snow that's in the blades as far as possible. Bigger opening = more snow with same power =  less available pressure to push present snow out the chute.
I'd buy a 26" 10hp if I could. As it is with my present blower, I take 1/2 width cuts to keep the loading down with heavy snow.
I wanted the 11hp from Toro, but the auto adjusting scraping blade is getting bad reviews around here.... so two dealers say and they have the 11hp model to sell me, it's not like they don't.
And with the added price... ~$300 from the 10 to the 11hp.. not sure if I need the extra 1hp.. until I read that the 11hp is the OHV and a better series of engines from Tecumseh.  Being on Long Island, we can get 2 inches or  2 feet. Either way it can start melting before your done cleaning, or the snow can start to turn to rain.. in which case you better start cleaning before it refreezes. So it's usually a very heavy snow, rarely light and fluffy.
And with moving pile to pile to pile, it tends to compact and become wetter each time , even if it's not warm enough to melt.
So been thinking big and tough and strong, real bearings - no bronze sleeves,  so I'm not loosing nuts and bolts to stripping threads, and blowing belts and seizing things up. The funny part, I never lost a sheer bolt on the auger. My father as the same model, but track drive and a few years newer, and he always blows his sheer bolts.

So I've been drawn to the Toro, more dealers around and more service centers. 12months free financing.
I've been thinking atleast 10hp.. but still thinking about the 11hp (also better engine)... but the auto scraper and money keep bringing me back to the 10hp model.
Since I have a lot of spinning around, turning todo of the machine and of the chute ( kinda like a MA1A, I have to aim and shoot on the go to make the piles in the right place) , the Toro keeps my attention with it's stick chute control, over the fine and old reputation of the Ariens.
Every time the Craftsman broke, while I was turning wrenches and warming up next to the turbo heater, I kept telling myself I'm buying a Ariens.
So now it's time to spend a good chunk of money, and I've run into to the Toro during my research.
And honestly, if I couldn't find anymore info I would either be buying the 10hp or the 11hp Toro.
But as an engineer, the more data the better.


So,
Can I go wrong with the Toro?
Any long term issue with the trigger stearing on the Toro?
10hp vs 11hp?
Is the new  "automatic leveling scraper" a liability? (maybe it has todo with how much icing and heavy snow we get here?)
I see a lot of plastic on the Toro, my only real negative, problems?
(my plastic chute on my Craftsman never broke and for half it's life, my drive way was 3/4" gravel not blacktop like it is now, but that was the only real plastic "hardworking" piece on it.)

Sorry about my spelling, and writing. English was never my best subject, and I never can proof read what I write, I always read what I thought I wrote.

Not too much posion on those arrows please, " just the facts mam, just the facts".....

Thanks abunch and sorry about the long winded post, I guess I babbled long enough at the keyboard...

Bob
Long Island, NY

PS:
This is what we like to do during the summer...
www.tdr4x4.com/files/camping7.jpg
older, but more camping/fishing pix...  www.tdr4x4.com/dt/

And after the 1st snow storm last year, daughter snapped some pix after I finished cleaning and went to work...
http://www.tdr4x4.com/firstsnow2005/

.

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nibbler


Joined: Mar 5, 2004
Points: 751

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #87   Aug 11, 2005 7:30 pm
ramit wrote:
I've opt'ed for the 11hp OHV.
At the shop they've used both and said the 10 hp is great for what it is.
But the 11hp OHV is noticably more powerfull, and for what problems I have, probably worth the extra money.


One thing that I found out is that the output shaft on the under 11HP ( I.E. Tecumseh 10.5) was .75" while the 11HP and up is 1". Since I was replacing a blown engine I also had to get new pulley's hence the fooling around with the ratios to try and tweak it to my personal usage pattern. I've also heard that there is a big difference  between OHV and the older "L" head design. I've certainly been impressed with the way the beast is now performing. I didn't realize just how much a difference there was until I helped a neighbour who was having trouble with his machine. It was practically identical to mine except it had the original Tecumseh engine and hadn't been used as hard. Once I got it going ( new gas, turn the fuel valve to the "On" position) it worked fine but it's top speed was noticeably slower and the snow only went 10-20' ft. instead of 30+ ft. I personally think the speed difference was mostly due to the change in pulley ratios while the throwing distance was due to the bigger engine.

I am positive you will really enjoy your machine. The only problem I can see is that you only get 40-80" per year and that probably won't be "enough".
This message was modified Aug 11, 2005 by nibbler
Garandman


Location: South Boston, MA
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
Points: 341

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #88   Aug 13, 2005 7:07 am
What kind of machine was this? The Ariens 8hp I have (924050) has a 1" shaft, but I'm not sure of the pulley ratios are different. I'll measure the older 5hp that has a .75 shaft, for grins.
This message was modified Aug 13, 2005 by Garandman
ramit


Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Jul 28, 2005
Points: 45

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #89   Aug 13, 2005 12:08 pm
The RC stuff is up my alley....

This was one of my best planes... but times got hard and had to sell off the fleet in the hanger..






My background is in power conversion, SMPS.
But the business killed my love for the EE work...

But the planes were a blast, one day I'll get back into it..
So I have a bunch of servo's and such hanging around in the basement..
Might be a good thing todo with the old 5/25 snowblower.

jubol


Location: Dover, De
Joined: Oct 3, 2003
Points: 1558

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #90   Aug 13, 2005 1:07 pm
 Folks,

 I have the Husky 9027STE-XP, built by AYP For Husqvarna as well as Poulan!!

She has a Tec  9 HP OHV and a 27 inch Bite!!

Poulan and Husky blowers are ident except for paint colors.She weighs 265 Lbs, no lightweight!!

Triggers on each handle for turning, when squeezed, disengage that wheel and turns on a dime.

Has infinate speed control, the  chute control nearly as good as Toro!!l 16 inch tires!!

Lowes sells them or $1000.00 with a 10.5 HP flat head TEC engine.

I have not blown any snow with her, when I do, I'll do a review!!!

                                                                             Fred     

Husqvarna STE927(11.5HP) snowblower,  MTD Pro Series 18/42 Lawnmower, MTD 6.5 HP  Self Prop Lawn Mower,  Weedeater 1500 Blower, Web Gensis  2000 
krislu


Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
Points: 148

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #91   Aug 13, 2005 2:17 pm
Ramit- What  club did you belong to ? Where did you fly? I used to fly RC helicopters. I used to fly at ex 63 off the LIE The name of the club was H.E.L.I. helicopter enthusiasts of Long Island. I had a a couple of excell's, a raptor, hirobo. I got out of it for the same reasons you did. - Kris

           
ramit


Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Jul 28, 2005
Points: 45

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #92   Aug 13, 2005 11:09 pm
Kris,

Did you fly in that old airfield next to the coram HD?

I used to fly with and be a member of the Wing Nutz, a Grumman club, field was out at the Calverton Grumman site, just east of the grounds in a buffer area.

Started flying with the wing nutz in 1985 or so. That's when I first started. 

In the mid to early 90's I joined IMAC, I was Pres of the IMAC for the last 4 or so years that I flew. IMAC, Islanders Model Airplace Club. We had a few fields, starting at Davis peach farm in Mt Sinia, when we were loosing that , before I was Pres they tuned down being part of the Defense Hill assoc. We rented a old emergancy air strip at Gyrodyne for a few years. Then got rights to fly at the peach farm again after the fields were sold, but before construction started.

During that time I got us into the Defense Hill Assoc since we were going to loose the Gyrodyne field and Peach farm to construction.

So for the last few year flew at Defense Hill and sat on that board since I was the Pres of IMAC, and also flew al ot out at the Manorville field of the Skyhawks.. had  a lot of friends there and flew as a guest a lot and helped with a few  fly-ins monitoring radios.

krislu


Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
Points: 148

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #93   Aug 14, 2005 7:46 am
Bob- Yes, I used to fly(for about 15 yrs) at the old airfield next to the coram HD. That's where the heli club is based. I was a member of the wing nutz (for a year) also. I used to fly at the calverton site also (I left that club because it was to far to drive). I have heard of defense hill but have never been there and don't know where it is. I got out of rc 5 yrs ago because at that time I lost my job and clubs were losing there fields it seemed everyday. I had to keep driving further and further east. It was becoming not worth it to me. I do miss it though.  - Kris

           
ramit


Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Jul 28, 2005
Points: 45

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #94   Aug 14, 2005 12:19 pm
Kris,

That was a complete parrallel to me problems.
The politics at Defense Hill, the wing nutz were starting to push to all gliders and or electric.  politics at the sky hawks of sport flyers vs scale flyers.... it all killed the fun .... never being laid off. Couldn't afford it, and got the point it wasn't worth trying to afford it when I was back working.
The park flyers are very attractive... been tempted once or twice to get a small cub or something.

What hobby store did you frequent?

yes the fields lost due to all sorts for problems. Most construction and or noise complaints...
Even for me Calerton was such a hike, that's why I joined IMAC, very close to home... and we tried like heck to keep a local field.
Defense Hill is on Defense Road. The road of the old housing for the military that manned the old Nuke Niki Missle base out in Rocky Point.
The air field is on the top of the road, where the old command and control and tracking systems were. We had bunkers to deal with.
Next to the Rocky Point High School, is where the missles were and lunch cradles.

To get to Defense Hill, William Floyd Pkwy all the way north till it ends on 25a, make right, head east... very 1st traffic light, basically right in front of you as you turn onto 25A, you hange a left onto Defense Hill road and go to the top / end of road.. big fence gates. usually open of the field is active.

The field was active before they sold the old military housing as adfordable housing. In just a couple of short years the new neighbors started to complain about the noise.
I understand the field is still open and operating. It's a town field. Propert given to the town from the government for use as a park. The assoc was started, charter said that five clubs would make up the Assoc, this way it benefitted those loosing fields and no monopoly. The Assco takes over the grounds and convert it for RC and plane use. there were plans for an off road rc track that never took off. there are two control line circles. 2 -3 out of the clubs were always fighting, so finally the Assoc was removed and a single Club was formed, so now it's Defense Hill Modelers Club.  As the Assoc disbanned, our club voted to donate our treassury to the new club since we had no field our selfs... and that was pretty much the end of  IMAC.

 
This message was modified Aug 14, 2005 by ramit


krislu


Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
Points: 148

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #95   Aug 14, 2005 5:58 pm
Bob- I don't miss the politics either. We had it too. Every club has it. There are alot of clubs that don't allow helicopters. If they do they restrict the hours that you can fly and where you can fly it. Helis and planes can coexist together but because of the members at the plane clubs they can't. The heli club does not allow planes because so many airplane clubs don't allow helis. All the clubs in western suffolk lost there fields to houses. I got tired of driving to Coram every weekend and when I lost my job that was the final straw and now with what the gas prices are I'm not feeling so bad that i'm not still in the hobby.  - Kris

           
ramit


Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Jul 28, 2005
Points: 45

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #96   Aug 15, 2005 8:48 pm
My New Toro Click here...

Posted some pix. Click on the link/pix above.

It's all shiny and new...

Not much to read in the manual.

Not  a word about Engine break in.

Any thoughts?

-Bob

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