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ramit


Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Jul 28, 2005
Points: 45

Ariens Vs Toro
Original Message   Jul 28, 2005 8:05 pm
I've just spent a ton of time reading all the old posts on this forum from Jan 2005 till present.
Lots of cool info. And a few hot threads... I don't tend to repeat such an event in this thread.

I see a lot of Ariens owners on this site. But I've not seen those owners knocking Toro either.
So I figured it would be a good place to share my story and get some opinions to help finalize my selection.

I'll tell my story, honest and true, but it will sound a bit like trashing Craftsman, or maybe not... maybe it wasn't the right tool for the job?.

I've been shopping now for about a month for a new snowblower  and have come to some conclusions and have read a lot of  "Facts" or better put "statements".
I'd like to run them by the crew here as well.

First, my story and what I'm dealing with........
15 years ago, after getting into a very bad car accident due to the permant damage, I can no longer shovel the snow off my driveway.
So in a lurch that snow season I bought what I could afford. How could I go wrong with Craftsman? It was such a deal.

My driveway....
It's 150ft long, from the garage to the street, with the entire east side is up against a 6 ft fence on the property line.
On the west side, no easy access to get ride of the snow.
It's single width for most of it's length ( 10-11ft wide), except for the last 25feet, it's a bit over double width - 25ft wide.
The 1st 30 feet ( starting at my garage), my trailer blocks me from throwing snow to the rear lawn... there's about 10 feet of open space between the trailer and house. So starting at the garage, traveling north,  I blow the snow to that point on the drive way, across from the opening between the house and trailer.  I make a mound on the drive way to Que up the snow. Then as needed I work on the mound and  throw it to the rear lawn, easterly.
Then the next 44 feet of  the driveway is between the house on the west side and and the fence on the east side. So I start at the mid point of the house and go southernly, throwing  the snow to the Queing point on the drive way across from that opening to the rear lawn in front of the trailer, then once again as needed I work the mound and  blow that mound to the rear lawn. I may do it several times so the mound doesnt become too much for the blower.
Now I go back to the mid section of the house, and start blowing to the street end ( heading north) of the driveway making mounds and moving it to points on the driveway and eventually to the front lawn.  I can't use a plow, if I did, I would blow out my basement windows and fence.
And I'm at a dead end.. so I get the mother of EODs to deal with.... the whole front of my house is EOD, since I have to clear room for the mail box and for the mai truck to turn around and the double car width of the drive way.
I can amass 5 ft piles of snow with a 1 - 1.5 ft snow storm on my front lawn and on the rear lawn.
The drifts between my house and the fence have topped the 6 ft  fence  on a 45 deg angle once or twice.
The thing is the Craftsman doesn't throw very far, so on the rear lawn, it looks more like a sand dune and once the pile gets too big, I can throw over it.
And since it didn't throw far enough to start with, if I get too many snow storms I can have a problem if it doesn't melt inbetween.
And by the time the time I've made this dune, the snow has been moved so many times, it very compact and heavy and it's too much for the blower.
Been very lucky so far. And if I don't clean the drive way, with the melting and freezing we get, I wind up with ice and drainage problems.
So I have to get the snow off of the driveway.
I live on Long Island. One 2005 snow storm took me 4 hours to clean up, the other took me about 3 hours.
A few inches of snow.. takes about an hour and a half or a so. Never less than an hour's time.

So what I've been beating to death is a  25" 6HP 2stage Craftsman snowblower, which is about 15 years old now.
I'm handy and do most of my own auto work and home renovations,I can weld a bit and such.
All came in handy while owning the Craftsman.
Right from the get go, during the  the 1st year, I blew belts. I'm sure to blow one or more belts for the drive or the auger during a season.
After using up all the ones I orderd from Sears one seasons, I decide to replace them with automotive belts, which must of tripled my uptime between blowing up belts.

After the 10th year of owning this machine ( bought it new), I called sears parts, once again, to order some more spare parts  for stock so I can fix it when it breaks during the season and to my surprise they couldn't find my machine listed. After some discussion, the punchline was,  they said.....  "when a machine is 10 years or older, it's not in the system any longer since we do not expect it to still be in service" ..."and we may not stock the parts"  I quote.

So with the p/n's in hand I was still able to get friction disk and cable and shoes and some other hardware... all came not in sear bags as in past , but it was either YTD or MTD.. I'd have to go out to the workshop and look. All were correct and looked just like the original parts.

I've taken that machine apart so many times that the threaded holes in the sheetmetal were gone and I had to put PEM nuts in for the case so I could still screw it back together and take it apart as needed.
The front auger gear box is now ratteling around with tons of end play on each of the inputs of the three shafts. I'm afraid of that just come apart in pieces one year.
It's time to shoot it and put it out of it's missery.

The engine still runs strong, it's a Tecumseh SnowKing 6hp... still starts well. Just started using oil this year.
At the 10th year, had to replace the carb. Over the years I've had to unstick this, replace that, de-rust this to get something moving again in the "transmission" or drive disk housing. I guess pretty normal stuff considering?

So with all my problems I figured I was just over working this light duty machine ( or it's a POS?). So I started looking at the Ariens. A friend of mine from NH says that up there the machine of choice, and he owns, is a Toro.
I started reading that the Ariens don't really have the quaility they used to and parts are hard to come by and there are fewer and fewer authorized dealers each year.
As I looked around, everyone here sells Toro. I can't find a local shop selling Ariens. A few Polound (spelling) dealers.. never ran across that brand online during my research.

Last year was the first time I saw the HD ( the big orange box) selling Ariens. After visiting Ariens' website, I found that HD wasn't selling the better grade of Ariens either.
I have a bunch of good local dealers selling Toro.
After looking at both machines, the Toro's at the dealers and the Ariens at the HD, it seemed that the Toro had heavier steal and impressive braces from the outer ends of the front housing to the frame.

I do see both as premium brands. But is the Ariens that the HD is selling apple and oranges to the Toro's at the dealers?
Do I need to be looking at a better grade Ariens at a dealer?
Or am I just not seeing a good comparasion since they aren't truly side by side?
Again I read statements else where saying that the lesser grade of Ariens doesn't use as thick of metal, no real bearings-just bushing and such.

I've come to think I should buy a 10hp 28" snowblower to get it as far as possible and to deal with my EOD and Queing piles.
Smaller opening and more power = more power to push out the snow that's in the blades as far as possible. Bigger opening = more snow with same power =  less available pressure to push present snow out the chute.
I'd buy a 26" 10hp if I could. As it is with my present blower, I take 1/2 width cuts to keep the loading down with heavy snow.
I wanted the 11hp from Toro, but the auto adjusting scraping blade is getting bad reviews around here.... so two dealers say and they have the 11hp model to sell me, it's not like they don't.
And with the added price... ~$300 from the 10 to the 11hp.. not sure if I need the extra 1hp.. until I read that the 11hp is the OHV and a better series of engines from Tecumseh.  Being on Long Island, we can get 2 inches or  2 feet. Either way it can start melting before your done cleaning, or the snow can start to turn to rain.. in which case you better start cleaning before it refreezes. So it's usually a very heavy snow, rarely light and fluffy.
And with moving pile to pile to pile, it tends to compact and become wetter each time , even if it's not warm enough to melt.
So been thinking big and tough and strong, real bearings - no bronze sleeves,  so I'm not loosing nuts and bolts to stripping threads, and blowing belts and seizing things up. The funny part, I never lost a sheer bolt on the auger. My father as the same model, but track drive and a few years newer, and he always blows his sheer bolts.

So I've been drawn to the Toro, more dealers around and more service centers. 12months free financing.
I've been thinking atleast 10hp.. but still thinking about the 11hp (also better engine)... but the auto scraper and money keep bringing me back to the 10hp model.
Since I have a lot of spinning around, turning todo of the machine and of the chute ( kinda like a MA1A, I have to aim and shoot on the go to make the piles in the right place) , the Toro keeps my attention with it's stick chute control, over the fine and old reputation of the Ariens.
Every time the Craftsman broke, while I was turning wrenches and warming up next to the turbo heater, I kept telling myself I'm buying a Ariens.
So now it's time to spend a good chunk of money, and I've run into to the Toro during my research.
And honestly, if I couldn't find anymore info I would either be buying the 10hp or the 11hp Toro.
But as an engineer, the more data the better.


So,
Can I go wrong with the Toro?
Any long term issue with the trigger stearing on the Toro?
10hp vs 11hp?
Is the new  "automatic leveling scraper" a liability? (maybe it has todo with how much icing and heavy snow we get here?)
I see a lot of plastic on the Toro, my only real negative, problems?
(my plastic chute on my Craftsman never broke and for half it's life, my drive way was 3/4" gravel not blacktop like it is now, but that was the only real plastic "hardworking" piece on it.)

Sorry about my spelling, and writing. English was never my best subject, and I never can proof read what I write, I always read what I thought I wrote.

Not too much posion on those arrows please, " just the facts mam, just the facts".....

Thanks abunch and sorry about the long winded post, I guess I babbled long enough at the keyboard...

Bob
Long Island, NY

PS:
This is what we like to do during the summer...
www.tdr4x4.com/files/camping7.jpg
older, but more camping/fishing pix...  www.tdr4x4.com/dt/

And after the 1st snow storm last year, daughter snapped some pix after I finished cleaning and went to work...
http://www.tdr4x4.com/firstsnow2005/

.

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mrmom


Joined: Sep 19, 2003
Points: 345

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #80   Aug 10, 2005 7:48 pm
Ramit, so you go take your pick on Friday eh? Well guess what..... the weather folks are going to change their weather forecast for this winter to "no snow at all this upcoming winter" on Saturday.

Good choice of machine.  Best of luck with it.

ramit


Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Jul 28, 2005
Points: 45

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #81   Aug 10, 2005 8:48 pm
Ajace stirring the pot........

Let me tell ya,,,, last year there wasn't a snowblower to be had on LI after the 1st major hit in Januarary.
I'm sure the big orange box was kicking them selfs. They had their big sale in full swing trying to clearing out their blowers just days before the storm hit, the local HD's  sold everything out that night as the snow was coming down and all the warnings on the radio and tv were being broadcast.

By the second hit , you were hard pressed to find any that looked like a decent show shovel. I started looking after the 2nd bad hit in fear my old 5/25 wouldn't make it, there was nothing to look at.
I started looking around in April again, nothing to buy but used stuff at one dealer and nothing at my local dealer.


The one dealer in Hauppuage that I visited again late last week just took reciept of three Toros.
He's a much larger Toro dealer than my local shop. This larger dealer carries lots of pro mowers and heavier equipment. When I was there in April, he had nothing either except for his own and some used stuff. He had a newer design Toro 10/28 he used in his yard that he let me look at. He also had one of the big drum Toro's, used for sale,  thats freaky looking but in great shape.

I was in the last week of July at my local dealer, the one I'm buying from, he had nothing in his stock area except mowers. Those he'll have a few left overs of for next year. All his Toro mowers are gone, but has a few lawnboys, they have the cheapest looking wheels on them, looks like a wheels from a toy mower.

It's like the old times at my local dealer/hardware store..., there no other shop in my area that you can walk in through the back, stop and chat with the mechanic in his area and/or the owner - or walk in through the front where the owner's son always is.  Kinda frozen in time before all the signs "no customers beyond this point" .....


mrmom, yup my life is ruled by Murphy's laws.......

faithfulFrank


He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep
to gain what he cannot lose....


Location: Batavia, N.Y.
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Points: 1067

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #82   Aug 10, 2005 9:15 pm
Ramit,
Ya did good.........you did the research and have a good buying strategy.  All the major brands have there unique features that have won them a faithful following.

I think Robmints said last year something like this.....There are a handful of very good brands out there that deserve the loyal following that they have.......if we all liked the exact same thing there would only be one choice out there to buy.  Thankfully, that is not the case.  Toro, Honda, Ariens, Simplicity, etc,etc. are all good strong brands.  What we end up buying is due to a lot of factors, such as;

1) local dealer support
2) Our own snowblowing needs
    a) big or small driveway
    b) a lot of sidewalks, neighbors, etc.
    c) who will be using it
3) Price
4) annual snowfall, etc
5) how long will you need it?
6) Features you like, (traction control, joysticks, etc.)
7) What good deal comes along.....

There are many here who love their Toro's, so you join a good company of people

I like a guy who thiks snowblowers in 90 degree weather.......!

Frank D.


Ariens 1332DLE Pro, Exmark 52" HP ZTR, Gardian Generac generator, Shindiawa T230  Excell/Honda PW, Craftsman rototiller, Favorite IPE- My Mac + Ipod- No Windoze for me!
AJace


I have an Ariens 926 Pro because I like Orange



Location: Near Gettysburg
Joined:
Points: 969

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #83   Aug 11, 2005 4:32 pm
I have a shop like that right down the road from me.  He sell Poulan, and a few Husqvaranas.  Last year those Poulan's looked pretty nice.  Walk in from the back and your in the shop.
This message was modified Aug 11, 2005 by AJace


Ariens 926 DLE Professional; Toro S200; Craftsman LT1000, Echo ES-230;

ramit


Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Jul 28, 2005
Points: 45

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #84   Aug 11, 2005 4:52 pm
Ajace,
there's another one you don't hear about, Poulan.
There was on shop advertising them last year, a few towns tho the west of me.
But never saw one in person.
I kinda thought it was another private label job of a MTD machine. But have no real idea who realy makes them.



AJace


I have an Ariens 926 Pro because I like Orange



Location: Near Gettysburg
Joined:
Points: 969

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #85   Aug 11, 2005 5:31 pm
Bob, I understand AYP makes them, but I may be wrong.  AYP is the same people that make the tractors for Sears.  The last I knew MTD/Murray were making the snowthrowers for Sears. 

Ariens 926 DLE Professional; Toro S200; Craftsman LT1000, Echo ES-230;

Garandman


Location: South Boston, MA
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
Points: 341

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #86   Aug 11, 2005 5:54 pm
Ramit, as a former aerospace engineer, I hope by the end of the Winter you'll have pictures posted of your stabilized shute controls - ie you aim the shute at one spot and it keeps it there regardless of the direction of the unit.

Of course that would just be the first step in the technology development towards the RC snow blower, or  the autonomous snowblower.....
nibbler


Joined: Mar 5, 2004
Points: 751

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #87   Aug 11, 2005 7:30 pm
ramit wrote:
I've opt'ed for the 11hp OHV.
At the shop they've used both and said the 10 hp is great for what it is.
But the 11hp OHV is noticably more powerfull, and for what problems I have, probably worth the extra money.


One thing that I found out is that the output shaft on the under 11HP ( I.E. Tecumseh 10.5) was .75" while the 11HP and up is 1". Since I was replacing a blown engine I also had to get new pulley's hence the fooling around with the ratios to try and tweak it to my personal usage pattern. I've also heard that there is a big difference  between OHV and the older "L" head design. I've certainly been impressed with the way the beast is now performing. I didn't realize just how much a difference there was until I helped a neighbour who was having trouble with his machine. It was practically identical to mine except it had the original Tecumseh engine and hadn't been used as hard. Once I got it going ( new gas, turn the fuel valve to the "On" position) it worked fine but it's top speed was noticeably slower and the snow only went 10-20' ft. instead of 30+ ft. I personally think the speed difference was mostly due to the change in pulley ratios while the throwing distance was due to the bigger engine.

I am positive you will really enjoy your machine. The only problem I can see is that you only get 40-80" per year and that probably won't be "enough".
This message was modified Aug 11, 2005 by nibbler
Garandman


Location: South Boston, MA
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
Points: 341

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #88   Aug 13, 2005 7:07 am
What kind of machine was this? The Ariens 8hp I have (924050) has a 1" shaft, but I'm not sure of the pulley ratios are different. I'll measure the older 5hp that has a .75 shaft, for grins.
This message was modified Aug 13, 2005 by Garandman
ramit


Location: Long Island, NY
Joined: Jul 28, 2005
Points: 45

Re: Ariens Vs Toro
Reply #89   Aug 13, 2005 12:08 pm
The RC stuff is up my alley....

This was one of my best planes... but times got hard and had to sell off the fleet in the hanger..






My background is in power conversion, SMPS.
But the business killed my love for the EE work...

But the planes were a blast, one day I'll get back into it..
So I have a bunch of servo's and such hanging around in the basement..
Might be a good thing todo with the old 5/25 snowblower.

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