Community Discussions

Now Mom is no soccer mom....she is going to do some heavy duty hauling, though no towing, with whatever she buys but doesn't have a lot of extra money to throw into the vehicle once she purchases it and she will be purchasing within the next couple of days.  I would very much appreciate any opinions/experiences you could give me with the following vans (ads I could find locally within price range):

1.     2000 Toyota Sienna

2.      2000 & 2001 Nissan Quest

3.     2000 & 2001 Mazda MPV (under powered seems to be a common complaint)

4.     2002 Kia Sedona (gas mileage seems to be pretty poor on this)

5.     1999 Honda Odyssey

6.     1999, 2000, 2002 Chevy Astro (reliability seems to be a common complaint with these)

7.     2000 & 2001 GMC Safari

Thanks in advance guys for your opinions/experiences with these.

Paula

Paula this is to tough to answer this genericly.  Can you give us mileages of the ones you are considering, along w/ over all condition??  The Safaris/Astros do have a problem w/ the front ends going through idler arms very quickly, and get whacked out of alignment easily.  However alot of anything wrong w/ ANY vehicle is how it was maintained.  That's where I'm thinkin if you gave us some mileage on each of these it would help narrow it down.  I'm into big Chevys myself, but I do know alot of peeps that drive those small Honda CRV that like them alot, and they seem to hold up pretty well.  Honda in general has a good rep for longevity.  Either way if you are on your own on this, I would take whatever you choose to a local shop for an inspection, OR buy from like Carmax, they have a nice 30 day return pooliccy, and from what I've heard are pretty ethical and decent to deal w/.

Bill

I know its tough to judge without seeing the vehicles which I have not done, have gone strictly by ads at this point.  In general, the foreign (Honda, Toyota and Nissan) have higher miles (average about 70 to 80k) versus the American made are lower (50 to 60K) but are all within close price range, with the exception of the Kia which has low mileage and a great warranty.  My thinking is she will get more miles from a foreign than she will from American made with less maintenance costs (not meant as a flame, just my personal experience and that of friends and family with foreign versus American made). 

The little bit of reading I have been able to do on them is that GMC, in those year ranges, have had some engine and transmission problems.  Also, the Chevy Astros seem to have had a lot of little things that add up (motors to power windows, A/C problems, gauge problems, etc). 

She will definitely take whatever she looks at to her mechanic who is good and hopefully, if there are any problems, he will catch them.  However, I know that is not a guarantee unless he takes the entire engine apart, etc. 

I hope this helps a little.  Any personal experiences with any of these models would be helpful.

Paula

Olsmobile Silhouette
Pontiac Montana
These two are over-looked, but worth a look. Usually have premium equipment, but not the price. The Caravans and Odsseys are popular and expensive.

If I were you, with todays prices,  financing and warranty deals, unless you were getting a used van that you knew to be well maintained, and is real inexpensive, I would seriouly consider new.
I think you could get a brand new van for just over 20K, and a good financing deal, with a warranty.

Thanks Mints

I wasn't impressed with the Silhouettes which were pretty much the same as the Caravans...and I hated our Caravan (94, I believe), handled terrible on the road.  The Pontiac Montana I have never heard of and I will definitely check on that one. 

New is not an option for her. 

Thanks again for the time and info.

Paula

The Olds and the Pontiac are just about the same.
The Safari and Astro are RWD if I remember.

Used is tough. A good, through pre-purchase inspection should be less than a $100. Without checking them out a 98 Freestar might be better than a 2003 Odyssey. Not much chance, but possible.

I still vote to at least look at the new domestic ones.So you can compare the employee pricing and finacing to the used ones. It will help you deal.

hey Paula...

it would really make my day to be able to help my new mother in law to buy a mini van .

now calm down and put the meatgrinder away.

seriously though i generally recomend to friends that they take the possible purchace to a service station or the dealer that sells that brand vehicle.(but not the one selling it to you)and have them do a safety inspection .costs about 15 bucks here and they will go over everything ,brakes, shocks , suspension tires ,exhaust lights and everything.

you would pay much more for this type of job if you just ask them to look it over.

only problem is your state may not have safety inspections.

they are real fussy about it here ,every year every vehicle gets one .

later chris  

Same for the inspections here. They don't have emissions, but I agree with safety inspections.  Astro's get poor gas mileage, but I like them because you can haul and tow with them.  It like the Windstar's have probelms, but 2002 and 03 look good with them.  I guess I'd have to recommend the Odyssey, Quest, and Sienna. 

snowshoveler wrote:

Shoveler

Hey...where's my ring?!! (And ring around the collar or out of a bubble gum machine doesn't count..LOL)  (thought I would try another tactic...scare the bejeebers out of you...)

And I NEVER put the meat grinder away...never know when it'll come in handy...

Wisconsin is only concerned that we will choke each other to death with fumes (car exhaust...Windy...car exhaust...)....not concerned if we kill each other off with unsafe vehicles (I am sure there is some logic in there somewhere...) so we do not have state inspections, only emissions.  My mom does have a good mechanic whom she has gone to for years and he will cut her a deal on checking out her vehicle (something to do with a 12-pack of wobbly pop ..hopefully AFTER he inspects it....) but I know from personal experience with my MPV that, even with a decent check by a good mechanic, there is no guarantee. 

I've been trying to read up as much as I can on the reliability and safety of the different minivans, using several difference sources for each make (epinions, MSN autos, cars.com, etc.) and the foreign just seem to fare better although the safety ratings are not always the best.

Mints

I know that new is generally better but she just cannot afford that kind of payment.  I was impressed with the Kias in terms of bumper-to-bumper warranty of 5 years or 60,000 miles and 100,000 drive train...I don't know of any of the other auto companies that offer that anymore...and that leads me to believe that they believe in their vehicles if they warrantee them that way.  However, on the other hand, I did read that Kia was tough as far as getting the actual service...not sure if they nitpick you to death on it or what. 

Ajace

I would throw Kia in there as well and possibly take out the Nissan Quest....heard a while back they had a few problems (can't recall what...I'm going to check them out more).

Thanks again for all your time folks!

Paula

Given those choices, I would pay the most attention to the Honda Odyssey and the Toyota Sienna. Be especially mindful that the Toyota has had regular oil changes. I would hesitate to recommend the Nissan, and I agree with previous comments about the Astro/Safari. I've never owned or driven any of those on the list, but my job is in automotive marketing research. If you've ever bought a car from a dealer or had one serviced there, they may have sent you a satisfaction survey. I read them...over the last five or so years many hundreds of thousands of them. At one time or another I've done GM, Nissan/Infiniti, Lexus, a few others and now Ford. This is not to say my opinion is better than anyone else's....I've just seen a lot of comments from a lot of people. And as with OPE, the quality of the service you'll receive is just as important, sometimes MORE important than choosing which product. I wish Mom luck in her search. Let us know how it turns out.

AZ  

Paula wrote:

Paula,

The vehicle safety inpection is just that:  a check that the vehicle is safe to drive. It doesn't check for mechanical fitness.

If you could get the maintenance history and see that the owner did the regular maintenance and repaired items, then you would at least have a warm and fuzzy feeling that the person cared enough to take care of it. 

A mechanic who works a lot (dealers for example) on the type of vehicle want to buy, with his knowledge of the repair history should be able to look for typical problems. However, it is difficult for them to tell what will go wrong with an individual vehicle and when.

 

Paula.
Is leasing an option?
Driving around the city (Detroit) all available storage lots are filled with new vehicles.
Most of my shop rat friends are laid off because of overstocking. (We got cars coming out of our butts around here.)
I have never leased....or know the pros and cons.....but I am hearing that it is a dirt cheap option right now.

Leasing, on this subject I will try to be brief (it's a struggle). Although there are exceptions, you are almost always better off to buy something you can afford and owning it rather than paying someone else for the use of a vehicle that you will not own. Please learn all the pros and cons before you consider a lease. There is a reason that leasing is being pushed so hard these days. It's because it's generally a good deal, for them...not for you.

AZ 

Thanks so much guys...this is exactly the kind of info I was looking for.  I will post more in a minute after I get the munchkins in bed. 

Paula

I'm with AZinOH on the lease thing.

The last time I bought a car the weaselly salesman tried to get me to lease. Asked him what I had at the end of the lease and he referred to "residual value" of the vehicle which I understood to mean that if the vehicle was worth more than the agreed purchase price at the end of the lease then I "had that value." Fine as long as I then turn around and sell it to get that higher worth. Gambling that the vehicle value will be more than the purchase price at the end of the lease, and I never win on gambles.

Overall, unless your mother and you are both into oriectomy as a business and can write off the lease payments, you won't be gaining much. Does your mother like to trade in her cars every three years for a nice shiny one with lots of bells and whistles? Then leasing might be fine. If she hangs onto her vehicle for many years, she is better off buying.

I look at leasing as an opportunity for you to pay off the depreciation and then some so the dealer can sell the car and make something on it when you return it.

    AZinOH wrote:

Az

Why would you hesitate to recommend Nissan?  I do remember hearing some negatives a few years back but can't remember what (darned memory aint what it used to be.).

I will definitely tell her to check service records....regular oil changes and other maintenance.  

Have you read anything on the Kias?  I know the vans, at least here in the U.S., have only been around since 2002 so its hard to know about their longevity.

Thanks again...your info was great!! I can't think of a better way to judge vehicles than by satisfaction surveys (out of the horses' mouths), other than maybe the car service techs. 

Paula

buttlint wrote:

Lint

I actually did the lease thing with a Honda CRV....i would never do it again...learned the hard way that at the end of the contract you  have nothing to show unless you want to buy the vehicle for a ridiculous price on top of what you've already paid (wind up paying 1-1/2 to 2 times than what the vehicle is worth if you do the buy-out at the end). 

I definitely think its a buyer's market.....theres a huge glut of cars out there, however, the popular brands still seem to hold their price but I think it does make it easier to deal (cars AND lint coming out of there? ...ok, couldn't resist...)

Another thing I learned is that the Kelley blue book is nothing more than a selling tool for the dealerships....was messing around with it one day, checking out prices on a vehicle - retail (what I would expect to pay the dealership) and trade-in (what the dealership would give me for it)....HOLY COW!  Many times there was at least a $5000.00 difference!  Talk about scam.   I'll be dam*ed if I'm handing any dealership a $5k mark-up! 

I was ready to buy a bicycle after that! 

P.S. I hate hearing about lay-offs...that is so rough not only on the guy getting laid off, but also the family.  Does it look like a continued trend for these guys or just temporary? 

Hey Windy

How did you know what my mom does for a living?  Its a skill thats been passed down for generations...and to thnk it all started with the sharp edge of a rock...

Seriously,

She will keep whatever she buys for a while....and whatever she buys will probably take a bit of a beating, interior more than exterior...which is another thing that would rule otu leasing....they tend to dock you for things like rips/scratches, etc on the inside of the vehicles...want them returned in near pristine condition. 

I will definitely remind her to check maintenance records and see if she can call the former owner. 

More than anything, I am trying to save her the time of looking at a whole bunch of vans by narrowing it down to, or ruling out, certain ones.

I really do appreciate all of the help guys.  You're really a terrific group (and you if tell anyone I said that, I'll develop Alzheimers...)

Paula

P.S. I'll defnitely let you know  what she buys. 

Used car market is weak now, it's a buyers market because it's a buyers market for new cars. Dealers have too many trade in's for values to hold. Same for private sales. If they try to get prices on used, people buy new. They're buying new anyway right now.

Don't expect much on trades. Kelly and NADA  is a joke, even trying to sell it yourself, the market won't bear their prices.

The saving grace for selling a used car is the old addage, "there's a butt for every seat". Just try not to be the butt they hold a party over after you leave.

Thanks Marshall for the info. 

It amazes me that dealerships even try to quote NADA...after all its in NADA's best interest to push the prices sellng sky-high and trade-ins as low as they'll go. 

Mom is in a better position as she won't be trading anything in so its an outright purchase which the dealerships, especially with the glut of trade-ins, would favor, I think. 

Paula

Thanks again folks for all your help. 

It looks like she is going for the 2000 Toyota Sienna with approximately 56K miles.  I think she will be happy with its performance and durability.  It has all the maintenance records with it and they took meticulous care of it with oil changes, scheduled maintenance program, etc. so I find that very encouraging. 

Forgot to ask her the two most important questions about it though...what color is it and what kind of stereo does it have?!!

Paula

I always figured your mom as a Camaro type woman, having you as a daughter of course.

Marshall wrote:

No, her Mom is more of a Mustang chick and she takes after her mom - Camaros - pooey, not with the metal.  Sorry to all the poor Chevy fans out there.  Had my fill of them and when I had to spend more time fixing then I did driving - well I'll take my oval any day of the week.  I know the sayings - but they've never left me down in the middle of winter, never in the pooring rain and I have never had to walk anywhere for a phone with my ovals, the reason I have a cell phone summed up in one word - CHEVY.

Sherri

Actually, Sherri, as much as I hate to admit it, Marshall hit it right on.....Mom did have a Camaro  until it recently bit the dust.  And, as painful as it is for me to admit it, she got a lot of miles out of that car without having to put too much into repairs, until the end....of course, I'm sure that much have been a fluke. 

She used to drive an MG until someone got a little creative in the rewiring of it and that was pretty much the end of that.  She likes her sports cars and, when she no longer has the need to do any hauling, she will go back to a sports car, though hopefully her taste will have improved by then.......to a nice 66 'Stang or maybe a Stingray. 

She isn't too excited about purchasing the minivan but knows she needs it for a while at least and needs the durability and reliability. 

Marshall wrote:

And what do you mean...having ME for a daughter??!     

Oh I just figured with your sporting personality she had to be the source.

That's a good choice.  People want good cars that have been taken care of with low miles, but they themselves make junkers out of them.  That's just how it usually works with some people.  I take good care of my vehicles, but they do see work sometimes.  My Silverado is still the bomb not needing much since 90.     

Why wouldn't I recommend Nissan?  Because I've seen too many bad reports on too many dealers.  I'll send  a PM with the details.