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MichaelFix

Name Mike
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Date Joined Aug 31, 2007
Date Last Access Dec 24, 2008 12:26 am
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Re: Honda 928 Wheeled or Track
#1   Aug 25, 2008 11:27 am

Last year I was at the exact decision-making place that you are now. I also live in the burbs of Chicago and purchased the 928 TA model.

Last year we did get a lot of very heavy snow. At one point at the corner of my street where the school bus stop is the snow it was about 4 feet high.(Thanks to the plows) Glad I went with the track model because I had to make about 3 passes to finally get down to the asphalt so the kids didn't have to stand in the street. 

No way I could have done that with a wheeled model.

I also have a 5hp single stage Honda that my daughter used- it was pretty much worthless at times last year when trying to throw the deep heavy snow. If I had to do it over again I would consider the 1132  

   

Re: Help with Snow Thrower Decision
#2   Sep 14, 2007 10:29 pm
And the cost for non-compliace? A wonderful example indeed

"I am an Engineer, in my profession I take deep pride.  To it I owe solemn obligations. . . " 

They must have been absent that day 

Re: Help with Snow Thrower Decision
#3   Sep 14, 2007 10:17 pm
Snowmann wrote:

Torque is a better indicator for engine selection versus displacement only if the curve itself is published (this is not very practical marketing-wise). The quality of the curve is what is most important (not peak torque). For example, an engine with a peak torque too close to the operating RPM can have problems snubbing out when it  is overexerted.  Or if an engine has a very peaky torque curve it will not hold the line well. The Tecumseh L-heads (318cc and 358cc) have a very flat curve that peaks down around 2500 RPM which is beneficial. The Briggs model 15 (249cc), which is market-wise comparable to the 318cc Tecumseh L-head, has near comparable peak torque but nowhere near the quality of the torque curve. The higher average torque across the RPM range of the Tecumseh is (in this case) mostly a result of a 28% displacement advantage.



As an engineer I know a little about torque curves.

Measuring an engines performance based on displacement is analogous to doing the same based on it's color, or it's dB rating.

For all engines or class of engines produced  a corresponding  performance curve is also produced, you know. . .  that physics thing again.

And on performance curve there is and will always be  torque = force at a specific rpm and work in a unit of time which is hp. I do not think this is likely to change.

Sales, Marketingand OEMs may chose to intrepret these performance curves disigenuously but to me "when in doubt, look at the curve"      

 

Re: Help with Snow Thrower Decision
#4   Sep 14, 2007 9:56 pm
Snowmann wrote:
Michael,


The reason the industry is going away from horsepower is due to pressures stemming from legal challenges of the SAE practices for rating horsepower. The practices by which engines can be rated is somewhat deceiving at times, and then there is just plain wishful thinking in other cases. That said, the torque equation holds true as long as the power curves are published by engineers and not marketing folks. With various manufacturers rating their engines differently it will get very confusing soon for customers (as has happened here).


All engine maufacturers are required to follow the same SAE practicies, there are no disadvantage or advantage fro any one engine or any one maufacturer. It is more a matter of  compliance or non-compliance.

It is a matter of policy that research development engineers create engine performance curves not marketing folks. Again, it's not a free for all a these labs, it's a matter following their policy. Can you imagine one of these places being audited and the auditor asks R&D for the method by which they derive hp and the engineer points to the marketing group? Yeah that would go over well. . .

 

Re: Cool project or Bag of worms?
#5   Sep 14, 2007 7:41 pm
Let me know how your trouble shooting goes - good luck
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