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mml4


Snow is good,
Deep snow is better!


Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Points: 544

Toro minus shearpins
Original Message   Feb 16, 2005 12:22 pm
Toro's web site points out that they do not employ shearpins  to protect the gear train . What serves this function in their two stage machines?

Marc

This message was modified Feb 16, 2005 by mml4


SnapperV210P,Toro22177,TroyBilt42010Snowthrower,Craftsman Shredder,American Turbo Pressure Washer HondaGX200,Stihl011Saw,EchoPas260Trimmer Edger,EchoPB602Blower,EchoHCR150Hedge Clipper
Replies: 3 - 12 of 12Next page of topicsPreviousAllView as Outline
MountainMan


Overpowered is Usually Adequate


Location: Connecticut
Joined: Feb 19, 2003
Points: 1564

Re: Toro minus shearpins
Reply #3   Feb 16, 2005 1:48 pm
I cant find the post, but it took over a Half hour to remove that newspaper, it made it to the impeller.  A small TORCh might have sped up the process.

Ive encountered a Brick, and a few other small items that poped shear pins, with no permanent damage.

I can only imagine somebody with a Gravel driveway, Having the machine stop dead several yimes from Gravel ingestion, and what repeated abuse could cause. Something must eventually give.

Ariens 1128PRO- Honda Generator_ Husky 480-257 Jonsered 2050Turbo- Shindiawa T2500 SCAG Mower -little wonder blower-Sears track blower-Coleman Generator- Bombadier ATV-Stihl HS-45 Etc-Etc-Etc
mml4


Snow is good,
Deep snow is better!


Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Points: 544

Re: Toro minus shearpins
Reply #4   Feb 16, 2005 2:32 pm
Those gears must really be something to take that kind of strain. Wouldn't the shock be transmitted all the way back through the auger drive to the engine? You would think one of the belts would slip.

Marc 

   

SnapperV210P,Toro22177,TroyBilt42010Snowthrower,Craftsman Shredder,American Turbo Pressure Washer HondaGX200,Stihl011Saw,EchoPas260Trimmer Edger,EchoPB602Blower,EchoHCR150Hedge Clipper
MountainMan


Overpowered is Usually Adequate


Location: Connecticut
Joined: Feb 19, 2003
Points: 1564

Re: Toro minus shearpins
Reply #5   Feb 16, 2005 3:11 pm
mml4 wrote:
Those gears must really be something to take that kind of strain. Wouldn't the shock be transmitted all the way back through the auger drive to the engine? You would think one of the belts would slip.

Marc 

   



From the tip of the first Auger, all the way to the Piston. Yes, some belt slippage MUST be factored in.  Id love to run the numbers to figure the load of a BIG 11 HP engine at WOT, coming to a scretching hault when a ROCK jams the impeller.

When somebody came up with the idea of no SHEAR pins, some Engineers must have had COLD SWEATS.

Ariens 1128PRO- Honda Generator_ Husky 480-257 Jonsered 2050Turbo- Shindiawa T2500 SCAG Mower -little wonder blower-Sears track blower-Coleman Generator- Bombadier ATV-Stihl HS-45 Etc-Etc-Etc
Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Re: Toro minus shearpins
Reply #6   Feb 16, 2005 4:17 pm
Isn't there a hex key or something where the flywheel attaches to the crank?  It was my understanding that if an engine is abruptly stopped if suddenly jammed, sometimes this hex key can break or malform causing the flywheel position to change causing the timing to go totally out. It's usually the first thing that should be checked after a bad jam if the engine suddenly doesn't run correctly. 


Richie
MountainMan


Overpowered is Usually Adequate


Location: Connecticut
Joined: Feb 19, 2003
Points: 1564

Re: Toro minus shearpins
Reply #7   Feb 16, 2005 4:31 pm
If I only had the Toro manual.

There should be a KEY ( woodruff, hex, etc) for the Impeller mount, also one for each pulley on a shaft, Dont forget the keyway on the Flywheel. Id guess at least 4-5 keyways in the system. 

Ariens 1128PRO- Honda Generator_ Husky 480-257 Jonsered 2050Turbo- Shindiawa T2500 SCAG Mower -little wonder blower-Sears track blower-Coleman Generator- Bombadier ATV-Stihl HS-45 Etc-Etc-Etc
Ben07


The more you know about something, the more you find there is to know.

Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: Feb 26, 2004
Points: 178

Re: Toro minus shearpins
Reply #8   Feb 16, 2005 5:18 pm
An if all that don't give.  It's oh well I think I spun a rod. then its (new rod, machine c-shaft journal down maybe 2 thou under new babbot inserts 2thou  over ((maybe even 1 thou as it is usually 1 thou per inch thickness of the diameter))  Too expensive unless you get machining for free so it's buy a shortblock.

Ben07

This message was modified Feb 16, 2005 by Ben07


Ariens 8524LE, Toro CCR2000, Jacobsen S-B S-blowers, Generac 10hp Gen-convt. to N.G., 5 L-boys(D's F's &Dura( 74,77,80,88,00), Antiq. 1960 AYP 20 in. mag w 3.5 Tech mower. Ryan/Ryobi gas Trim. AYP 205 gas blwr. Mac c-saw,Toro E-blwr, 2 Weed-E e. stg. trims. outboards, boats, util trail, 2 Jeeps 
robmints


Joined: May 13, 2003
Points: 4691

Re: Toro minus shearpins
Reply #9   Feb 16, 2005 6:45 pm


The ones I have seen still have a bolts that can be removed to clear a jam. I would not think there would be anything to stop someone from putting correctly sized shear bolts in place of the regular bolts. Some of those old drum augers never used shear bolts that I could see.
Richie


Bring On The White Stuff

Location: Long Island, New York
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
Points: 562

Re: Toro minus shearpins
Reply #10   Feb 16, 2005 8:08 pm
Mountain,

Yes, I meant woodruff key.  I thought that when the auger strikes something causing the engines to stop suddenly from operating RPM, sometimes the woodruff key can break on the flywheel of the engine.  I didn't actually mean on other parts of the snowblower.  When this happens, I thought the timing on the engine gets fouled up and it really won't run correctly or not at all.

Rob, thanks for grabbing those exploded views.

Richie
mml4


Snow is good,
Deep snow is better!


Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Points: 544

Re: Toro minus shearpins
Reply #11   Feb 17, 2005 8:56 am
Hi Guys!

My last machine was a 1974 paddle wheel Simplicity two stage. The auger was connected to a sprocket and chain  drive which in turn was connected to a belt and pulley system. No shearpins. I remember it  once ate the Sunday paper and the belt slipped and smoked with no other damage. 

I think I'd like shearpins when running a gearbox. However you have to believe Toro wouldn't bet the ranch on a system that would have such an obvious weakness. Their engineers must have taken these issues into consideration when designing this auger system. The breaking of those keys in various places in the drive as protection  would be a service nightmare in consideration that  auger jamming is not an uncommon occurence. Still,!

Hard to teach an old dog new tricks!

Woof Woof,

Marc  

This message was modified Feb 17, 2005 by mml4


SnapperV210P,Toro22177,TroyBilt42010Snowthrower,Craftsman Shredder,American Turbo Pressure Washer HondaGX200,Stihl011Saw,EchoPas260Trimmer Edger,EchoPB602Blower,EchoHCR150Hedge Clipper
lland


Joined: Sep 17, 2002
Points: 605

Re: Toro minus shearpins
Reply #12   Feb 17, 2005 12:49 pm
That was me with the Sunday paper in the impeller:

* * * * *

We have a function to go to yesterday.  It's snowing the whole time and when I get home there's about eight inches on the ground.  earlier in the day I was all psyched to get a blowin' but when I got home, I felt terrible and went to bet early.

I'm kind of glad I didn't clear the driveway because when I wake up, there's twice as much snow and all of the dirves that were cleared are once again, covered.  So, I go out, spend ten minutes trying to fire up the Toro before I realize I have the fuel shut-off valve on "off."  I turn it on and the 'Ol Tec starts with one pull. 

The snow is around fifteen inches deep but some drifts were three to four feet and the EOD was about three feet of pretty heavily packed snow.  El Toro handles it all in stride until I get to the right side of the EOD when I am immediately reminded of the email I recevied from Toro a while back:

"Toro snow throwers do not have shear pins.  The reason for this is if you hit something while snow throwing, the auger and engine will stop letting you know that something is wrong.  You can then remove whatever it was that you hit, start up the machine, and continue snow throwing.  If the snow thrower had shear pins, they would need to be replaced before starting the snow thrower again."

With all the snow, who expected the paper to be delivered...and the SUNDAY paper at that.  Well, true to Toro's word, the machine ingested the paper and stopped immediatley (I guess the shearless system works).  I didn't even have to look, I knew what had happened.  So, when I gor around to the front, there in all it's shredded glory is the Sunday paper jammed tight between the auger, impeller and housing.  A big screwdriver (the tool, not the drink), a sharp utility knife, and about thirty minutes of pulling out bits of paper, I get it a bit looser.  I figured since the machine got itself into this trouble, let it get itself out.  I start her up, release the auger and out flies shredded newspaper, not unlike the skiier who fell into the bug snowblower in James Bond's "On Her Majesty's Secret Service."

I get the driveway done, a couple of hundred feet of walk, and figure I'll do the paver walks and patio in back so the dogs will have a place to run around other than the deep snow.  While going along the sitting wall, the machine (apparently still hungry after eating the paper) scoops up about sixty feet of previously unseed low voltage wire.  This time the machine just snaps the wire and keeps running but I stop to look.  There it is, wrapped around the auger.  Off it comes, and blowing continues with no more events.  Overall, a good day.

* * * * *

I'm kind of glad I didn't clear the driveway because when I wake up, there's twice as much snow and all of the dirves that were cleared are once again, covered.  So, I go out, spend ten minutes trying to fire up the Toro before I realize I have the fuel shut-off valve on "off."  I turn it on and the 'Ol Tec starts with one pull. 

The snow is around fifteen inches deep but some drifts were three to four feet and the EOD was about three feet of pretty heavily packed snow.  El Toro handles it all in stride until I get to the right side of the EOD when I am immediately reminded of the email I recevied from Toro a while back:

"Toro snow throwers do not have shear pins.  The reason for this is if you hit something while snow throwing, the auger and engine will stop letting you know that something is wrong.  You can then remove whatever it was that you hit, start up the machine, and continue snow throwing.  If the snow thrower had shear pins, they would need to be replaced before starting the snow thrower again."

With all the snow, who expected the paper to be delivered...and the SUNDAY paper at that.  Well, true to Toro's word, the machine ingested the paper and stopped immediatley (I guess the shearless system works).  I didn't even have to look, I knew what had happened.  So, when I gor around to the front, there in all it's shredded glory is the Sunday paper jammed tight between the auger, impeller and housing.  A big screwdriver (the tool, not the drink), a sharp utility knife, and about thirty minutes of pulling out bits of paper, I get it a bit looser.  I figured since the machine got itself into this trouble, let it get itself out.  I start her up, release the auger and out flies shredded newspaper, not unlike the skiier who fell into the bug snowblower in James Bond's "On Her Majesty's Secret Service."

I get the driveway done, a couple of hundred feet of walk, and figure I'll do the paver walks and patio in back so the dogs will have a place to run around other than the deep snow.  While going along the sitting wall, the machine (apparently still hungry after eating the paper) scoops up about sixty feet of previously unseed low voltage wire.  This time the machine just snaps the wire and keeps running but I stop to look.  There it is, wrapped around the auger.  Off it comes, and blowing continues with no more events.  Overall, a good day.

* * * * *

http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/4459-0-1.html

LL

2001 Toro 20023 Personal Pace
2002 John Deere Trimmer/Edger/Blower
2003 Craftsman DYT 4000 - 25HP/48" w/bagger
2003 Toro 826LE Snowblower
2004 Mantis Tiller/Dethatcher/Aerator/Edger
2005 Husqvarna 145BT Backpack Blower
Rubbermaid 10CF Trailer
Craftsman 40" Plug Aerator
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