Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Happy holidays every one! ... bought the toro 1028 OXE back in October, right after the very first early snow storm. Was not able to try it in snow... I added the startron stabilizer And filled up the tank with 93 octane. I tested the new baby, showed off without spinning augers... But now it's a long time unused. My question is: is it okay for the fuel to sit in the carb for such a long time? Thanks!

Using higher octane than recommended by the manufacturer will not damage your engine. There are no advantages to using higher octane than recommended by the manufacturer. The only difference between higher octane and lower octane is the ignition temperature. Use whatever octane fuel you wish to use as long as it meets the minimum octane requirements of the engine manufacturer. The one change you will see when using higher than recommended octane fuel is a lighter wallet. Regarding where to buy fuel, there are very few low volume gas stations anymore. The sale of gasoline is a low margin business. That is why it is sold mostly at stores with multiple sources of revenue, i.e. convenience store, restaurant, car wash, souvenir shop. It is very rare to get old gasoline out of the pump. The majority of gasoline is at most a few days old. All the gasoline within a fixed area comes from the same refinery. The refinery formulates the various octane grades of gasoline then adds the additive package of the particular company when filling the tanker truck. You will see tanker trucks from every gasoline company pulling in and out of your local refinery. So picking one gasoline company over another means you are picking one additive package over another but the basic gasoline is all the same within a given geographic area.

JoelKlein wrote:
Due to its design high octane fuel is designed to to ignite at higher compression levels as to not detonate or auto-ignite in a high compression engine.  It also has a slower burn rate and a slower moving flame front.   This will cause a loss of power in a lower compression engine as the fuel will start to burn later and will be burning slower, still burning after the piston reaches BDC, effectively reducing the amount of power extracted out of the fuel. You could advance the ignition timing to help solve this problem but you still wont get any more power out of the engine. The net result will be wasted unburnt fuel, loss of power, and even carbon buildup on the exhaust valve that after a while will lower compression even more due to the valve not being able to seal the combustion chamber.

I suggest you run what ever octane you like in your engine, however, running 93 octane in an engine designed for 87 is not only a waste of money is will surely cause a stock low compression engine to loose power and even carbon up.  Did you ever hear the saying  use the right tool for the  job.  87 octane is the right tool for a low compression engines period.

Higher compression engines require higher octane to prevent Pre-ignition/detonation.

I have been running 87 octane fuel in my small engines for over 30 years with no problems.

If you want real high octane (short of buying racing fuel) gas get some 100LL (available at small local airports) it even still has tetraethyllead in it.

I run Avgas  (100 LL) in my 11.8 compression 434 cubic inch 69 camaro which makes over 625hp at the rear wheels.  It has a very sweet smell  when burned and is blue in color

This is my technique for the past two years.  I don't use any fuel stabilizers on 87 octane fuel.  I try to fill up with enough gas per snowblower session, and run the carb dry if possible by shutting off the fuel valve.  If any of the gas in the external tanks is older than 30 days, I put the in the wife's car, then get fresh fuel.

So far so good.  I don't feel like spending money on fuel additives or higher octane fuel if I don't have to.  If it works for me, I will keep doing this until I see any problems.

Also, like Borat has mentioned before, if you must store fuel in the tanks for extended amount of time, fill it up to the top as much as possible reduce air volume in the tank, keep the cap tight.  This is the recommended method for metal gas tanks or cans, to prevent rusting.

Anyways, if you feel like spending more for additives or octanes gives you the warm and fuzzy feeling, that's fine with me.  This sometimes can create a "stimulus package" to the economy, a monetary policy, which has indirect benefits.  Sometimes people spend money on intangible, immeasureable, or neglible "benefits".  Everybody's perception is different so if you "perceive" the benefits, by all means do it.  I used to spend $1000 on speaker cables, I can't say I appreciate or notice the difference these days, but back then, it was worth it to me.  :)  Not that the $1000 speaker cables sounded even at least 2 times better than a $100 speaker cables, that was never the case.  Mankind can only do so much to create the perfect copper crystalline structure.  :)  And you'll be amazed how a glass of red wine improves the sound quality of any system.

Still waiting for snow here too.  There hasn't been significant snowfall to even break out a shovel.   The weather has been like early April, lots of rain. 

carlb wrote:

hey carlb...  very nicely explianed!!! .. excellent info and easy to understand..

To add to carlb post on octane...when fuel becomes stale it looses its ability to ignite easily.... so on older snowblowers where the compression is lower than normal they seem to be more prone to no starts from stale fuel...i have noticed without a doubt that the older snowblowers this seems to happen more frequently too, but certainly not limited too...

l recommend to my customers even when using stabilizer in there fuel is they use there fuel no more than 2-3 months, without stabilizer 1 month....then get fresh gas to avoid starting issues... stale fuel can cause hard starting,,prolonged cranking,, and premature fouling of the spark plug....and thats when the engine starts!!

The number one question i get when recommending to a customer to use stabilizer in there fuel is "where do i get rid of the old fuel"...easy just pour it right into your car gas tank...your car wont mind the stale fuel as it has a much higher compression ratio..and it gets diluted in with the existing fuel in your cars tank...of course this ONLY pertains to straight gas and NOT mixed gas.

niper99 wrote:
I was told never to dump old mixed(2 cycle)gas in my truck as it might cause damage to the evaporative emission devices and cause the "check engine" indicator to light up. You might then fail State inspection which will compel you to waste money on this political device. :')

Hay guys, you convinced me... No More 93 in the snow blower. I'm even thinking of draining the 93 from the 1028. So it won't burn hotter, or create slow flames, and build up carbon, and etc... The SB is brand new and I want to keep it that way. But I do know that regular 87 have waste in it that can accumulate. What can I do to keep the fuel lines and the piston chamber CLEAN? Including my Toyota sequoia ?

JoelKlein wrote:
Joel,

The only difference between 87 and 93 octane is the additive package that is added after the gas is refined.  If anything the 87 octane has less in it the the 93 octane fuel.

I suggest you run what the manufacture calls for in your particular engine and not let it worry you.   As far as the 93 octane you now have in your blower, just use it, it will be fine, but for long term use, use  the fuel the manufacturer calls for.


Carl

Thank you! I understand. If I may ask one more question; in terms of automobils, Whats the reason a OLD engine won't produce as much power as a new one? what can be done to prevent that loss of power ? In other words: what can I do to make my car drive in 5 years like it drives new? In yeas from now, will my snow blower loose power too?

all you can do is take care of you auto or ope.  Change the oil, oil filter and air filters when required.

Good fuel will help keep injectors clean and maintain a good spray pattern.

All engines will loose power as they get older it's just a matter of how much power they loose and most of that is directly attributed to how the engine was maintained.

Change you oil, oil filter, air filter etc as recomended by the MFG (your owners manual will give you the intervals)
Use good quality gasoline of the correct octane.
Use good quality Oil and filters.
Don't drive a cold engine hard, drive it easy until it warms up.
Don't abuse your equipment.

I have seen dozens of cars with over 200k the still run very well with little loss in performance even with those kinds of miles