Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I'm looking at either buying the Toro 2-cycle 221QE or the 4-cycle 421QE.  One dealer I talked to said that the 4-cycle 163cc engine will be almost impossible to start, even with the electric start, if stored in an unheated garage at -20C.  He said that he has lots of people who bought this machine come back and complain about it not starting when really cold.  He had both the 2-cycle and 4-cycle models in the showroom and recommended that I buy the 2-cycle and that I would be a lot happier with it.  Another dealer said that it just comes down to personal preference on which one you want to buy and that they are both just as easy to start when the temp is really cold out.  Anyone have any comments about cold starting on the 421QE?  This is the one I would like to buy because it would be a little bit quieter and the exhaust wouldn't stink as much as the 2-cycle.

Paul7 wrote:

Yes that is the viscosity but you can get the viscosity in different weights. I forget what's in my Toro. But you can always go lower in viscocity if you live where it gets really really cold like Frostbite Falls MN or almost anywhere in Canada.

aa335 wrote:

Yeah I'd agree with that which is another reason I didn't buy Ariens from my dealer. far too pushy on that product line. Kinda like teh kid in school who tried too hard to give you a stick of gum. You just KNEW it was loaded with pepper or something.

I hope the OP calls up Toro of Canada and gets the straight scoop on the 421Q. I wonder if Toro still has their starts on one pull guarantee any more?

Jack-I bought a Toro 2450 2 stroke a few years back and have been tremendously impressed with it's reliability and utility. Absolutely not finicky at all and if you use a synthetic 2 stroke oil in your mix no detectable smoke or smell.

I think weight is important in a paddle drive machine (lighter being more desirable) and therefore would go with the 221 as opposed to the 421 as I assume the four cycle variant is a heavier machine. In addition the four stroke Loncin (Chinese) engine is new in the Toro line and doesen't have a track record.

Which ever machine you buy see if Toro is putting a fuel shut off on them. If not see if the 221/421 still has that little window of open space on the lower right hand corner as you face the machine as they did on the 2450-3650 series . If so buy yourself the standard gas shutoff valve and 2 spring fuel clamps and install the valve in the fuel line in the afore mentioned space. I don't know why it isn't mandatory to have a fuel shutoff on all ope.

 Marc   

mml4 wrote:
You have to wonder why they don't just include a fuel shutoff as a standard feature for the few extra $$$'s it would cost????

MN_Runner wrote:

We got a big dump of snow this weekend about 15".  It gets really cold here but we don't usually get much at all.  Supposed to be around -20C for a high all week.

Steve_Cebu wrote:

I have the feeling that they are overstocked on the 221Q/QE's and just wanted to move them.  It just doesn't make sense to me at all especially when Toro has the 2 year GTS.  But, doesn't hurt to post it to see what everybody else says.

Paul7 wrote:

This dealer said that it had something to do with the automatic decompression in the engine is what makes a 4-cycle hard to start when it's stored in a really cold garage.  Of course I'm no small engine expert and didn't even know what he was talking about.

jackrabbit000 wrote:
Hmm...my Honda HS621 has decompression for starting and never had problem with the cold in an unheated garage. 

Seems like either he wants to move the 221Q due to overstock condition or that he count on uninformed users to forget adding oil to gasoline and toasting a 2 stroke engine so that he can make additional $ from out of warranty service.  :)

jackrabbit000 wrote:

Ok I called up Toro and spoke to Gabby, it doesn't matter if it's cold or not she said. But customers might be coming in and telling the dealer they have problems. It was hard to type as she was talking. She says that the authorized dealers act as tech support but she has had no complaints regarding the 421QE which does have Toro's guaranteed to start warranty which is for 2 years. She suggests that you call a different dealer in the area and ask them if they have problems with the 421QE starting. Now keep in mind I called US customer service. I hope this info helps you.

So you have a guaranteed 2 years to start warranty (at least in the US) double check for Canada and no reported problems. I'd say you're safe buying the 421QE.

As a side note Toro wants to use the video with my wife in it!  They want it sent to their email and are asking permission. So my wife is really pleased with that. Go Toro!

Steve_Cebu wrote:
Trade them for a 421QE :)