Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Good: price, 357cc engine, joystick chute control, dual trigger steering, heated handgrips, 16x6.5 tires, 30" auger width.

Maybe not-so-good: 12" auger dia., 12" impeller, plastic chute, MTD affiliation?

Consumer reports top pick for value per dollar (not that they are always correct)  Maybe it won't throw the furthest or last 20 years but for the money would you really be doing yourself an injustice if you bought this?  Some others claim to have gotten a good 10-15 years of service from MTD, Murray, Yardman, Craftsman units.  Are there specific issues that make this one a poor choice?  One can always say you should spend X dollars more and get something better but that's comparing apples to oranges.  Dollar for dollar this time, even if it's not what YOU would do...

I've posted our functional requirements in two other threads. In this case it isn't throw distance it is wet, compacted, heavy snow. It has to put enough energy into it to discharge.  Another goal is getting though the EOD mound the plows leave which are regularly 3-4' tall.  Even in powder, the 10hp Tecumseh MTD struggled a bit; we could only use 1/2 to 2/3rds of the scoop width without it spilling over the sides.

I can straighten it; it shouldn't bend in the first place. I don't know the gage metal used in the different brands. However the bends and creases for rigidity look feeble on the MTD, much better on the Ariens and Deere/Simplicity.

Yes...there are several places it needs to change direction and deflection as it moves near the house, some plantings, and the cars. Had the crank like the 16" auger MTD and Hondas on the current model...it was always a pain.

It does seem that I should have learned how to maintain these things. I've been thinking of rebuilding the current one, but it would probably cost $200+ in parts, and since its my first go through some if it, I'm guessing 15-20 hours. It doesn't seem worth it. An equivalent one new is $800 (on sale at Lowes last year for $680). Instead we would like to address the capacity, heavy snow, manuverablity, and reliablity issues.

This page has reviews of a large MTD: http://www.mysears.com/Craftsman-Professional-12-hp-33-in-4-Cycle-Tecumseh-2-Stage-Snowthrower-reviews?tab=reviews

FYI, just got an ad today in the mail from Lowes: All Troy-Bilt snow throwers 15% off.  I don't know if this is local or nationwide.  Their website does not reflect this yet.  The ad says prices valid 10/7/10 thru 10/11/10 or while supplies last.  Makes that 3090 XP model $934.15 before tax.  (I do not work for Lowes or Troy-Bilt).  Figures... I just ordered an Ariens Platinum 24 earlier this morning!

Would the $165 have changed your decision? A way to ask that at what price would you chose the Troy-bilt over the Ariens?

Actually it might have.  After realizing that a 30" machine was really too big, I noticed that on both the Lowes and Troy-Bilt websites, for each machine you can click on  "view demo" where you get a pop-up that shows the features of the machine.  The Troy-Bilt 28" model looked to have almost all of the features of the 30" including "touch & turn power steering", and still has a 277cc engine.   After realizing that the discounted price on this unit was only going to be $764.15, I ran straight to Lowes to see if it was in stock.   Fortunately it was....unfortunately, it does NOT have the "touch & turn power steering" (dual trigger) like it's bigger 30" brother does (Troy-Bilt's misprint).  So yes I would have saved $440 dollars if I had picked it up instead of the Platinum 24, but the lack of steering (locked axle) was the dealbreaker....for me.  

We were out last March I stopped into a Lowes for some plumbing piece. They had the close out sales and that 28" was $680. We knew the unit had died in a big way after being weak all winter, and were tempted. That Lowes was a long way from us (beyond or at the edge of their shipping distance) and we hadn't done any homework. We didn't even know about the 30" model or have an idea of what our machine needed. We weren't expecting more snow; we were way wrong on that one.

Redoing our analysis, that is only considering 28-30" machines with some form of steering, the MTD is interesting. It is $1000 including delivery and drift bars from Sears. This compares to $1330 for an Ariens 30" Deluxe, $1550 for the Deere 1330SE, $1580 for the Cub Cadet 930SWE (16" auger/impelle, many turn chture crank, some online complaints of flimsy chute), $1630 for the Ariens 30" Platinum, $1680 for the 30" Simplicity, $1875 for the Sears Profsssional 33" (same as the Cub Cadet 900 but 33"), $1900 for the Husqvarna 16530EXL (with hydrostatic drive), $2020 for the Toro 1128OXE (drift 'breaker' is an expense $70). It is less than half the price of the Toro!

Of that group only MTD, Toro, and Husqvarna have left/right freewheel 'power steering'. The Deere has the intuitive, easy electric chute control, the MTD 30" and Toro have one lever chute control. Haven't tried them all for balance, or seen the Cub Cadet, Sears Professional, or Husqvarna. The Deere looks a bit more substantial (other than handlebar arms) than the Ariens, then the Toro, then the MTD. However, I have no way of determining which is the acceptable level of construction and which is overkill. Some posts indicate my complaints about my 14 yo MTD have since been corrected in the newer models. There are no complaints that I've found that the Toro or Ariens models are inadequately designed. So the Deere may be overkill. The Toro may suffer from 'over price', however, it may have the highest ease of use.

Net: the price gap from the discounted MTD to the next unit is large, to the Toro which has similar features it is huge, and its performance and reliablity may be adequate.

I looked at the MTD (the Sears, same as the Troy-bilt) today and at the Ariens Deluxe 30. $980 vs $1300 (really $1000 vs $1300 net of discounts and shipping).

The MTD had the features but was clearly poorer in implementation. I found at least one piece of questionable engineering (the MTD auger, another thread). They are using a full length skid shoe to reinforce a rather weak scoop edge.

Seeing the Ariens 5 minutes later at Home Depot, the difference in implementation--scoop, auger, impeller, chute, controls--was immediately apparent. Every thing was stronger, better finished, worked smoother. Home Depot had two 30" models on display.

IMHO, the Ariens was clearly worth the price differential.

Trouts2, what is the specific advantage of real ball or roller bearings on the auger rake shaft over a $2 nylon flanged sleeve bushing?  I was highly disappointed to learn that Ariens uses this setup.  Seriously though, have you seen these things wear out?  Does the metal mount that is attached to the side of the auger housing break?  They put a zerk fitting on the shaft to lube the outside of the nylon bushing and the inside of the (tubular?) shaft.   Would one benefit by using a better grade sleeve bushing (MDS-Nylon, PEEK, Delrin, UHMW Poly, Bronze)?  Can the unit be retrofitted with flange mount ball bearings?  It doesn't look like there's a lot of room to work with on the ends of the shaft.

>>Trouts2, what is the specific advantage of real ball or roller bearings on the auger rake shaft over a $2 nylon flanged sleeve bushing?  I was highly disappointed to learn that Ariens uses this setup.  Seriously though, have you seen these things wear out? 

 

Wear out, yes.  How fast depends on the machine.  MTD’s nylon or whatever they are made from are a common wear point,  Ariens bronze bushings in the older machines lasted a long time.  Ariens now uses some plastic busings in their newer machines.  I replaced a few I think on 2005’s or around that year.  Too early for such wear.   

 

>>Does the metal mount that is attached to the side of the auger housing break? 

 

The one that holds up the auger shaft?  No, never saw one broken.  They support a flange bearing which can become so worn it wears into the holder.  The wear can be so bad it allows the auger shaft to jump out of the holder all together.

 

>>They put a zerk fitting on the shaft to lube the outside of the nylon bushing and the inside of the (tubular?) shaft.  

 

The rake zerks are only to prevent rust between rakes and shaft.

Pre-Briigs Snappers had zerks on the auger shaft bearing holders.  No other company had that.  They also had an oil holding chain case in the tractor section, also something no other company had.  A bit of overkill but their machines were fantastic and lasted.

 

>>Would one benefit by using a better grade sleeve bushing (MDS-Nylon, PEEK, Delrin, UHMW Poly, Bronze)? 

    I have no idea what those are but Bronze is good for 20-30 years, a couple of bucks to replace so why putz around?

 

>>Can the unit be retrofitted with flange mount ball bearings?  It doesn't look like there's a lot of room to work with on the ends of the shaft.

   Sure, you get an inside mount support that the shaft fits into.  Many makers have that type of support,MTD, Ariens and others.  You could pick up another makers support for you auger shaft.    A few guys did that for a rake design problem with Sears Husqvarna’s.  If the machine came with roller bearings great but once you get a machine with flange type you’ll probably only replace them once over the life of the machine so probably not worth doing.    

 

So are you saying that the easiest and most cost effective solution is to just replace the nylon bushings with the same size bronze bushings?  That could be done when the machine is new and would hardly be noticeable at all (translation: not void warranty).  Then hopefully the potential wear problem would be nipped in the bud...at least for a good number of years.

As Trouts2 stated that is what I did with my Sears Husky.

Stock


Bearing Upgrade


All my other mods here.

http://picasaweb.google.com/audreyappliance/2008Craftsman145TorqueRatingSnowThrower#