Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I have a moderate-sized (maybe 40' x 15') driveway constructed with paving bricks. Additionally, I have a sidewalk I'm responsible for that requires me to trudge across a neighbor's lawn to access (don't ask...). I've been using a Toro electric, but it bogs down terribly in heavier/wetter snow, and the cord makes it impossible to get to the sidewalk, which is more than 100' from an outlet. So this year I'm finally switching to gas, but it seems like I only need a single stage gas blower, since my needs aren't too heavy. There are two I'm considering, the Toro Power Clear 210R, and the Murray 1695537.

The Toro Power Clear 210R is top-rated by Consumer Reports:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100677593&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=100677593&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D28X-_-100677593&locStoreNum=6204&marketID=191#BVRRWidgetID

The Murray is getting good reviews on Amazon, but reviews elsewhere are difficult to find:
http://www.amazon.com/Murray-1695537-21-Inch-4-Cycle-Stratton/dp/B002JIN6TS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1284054991&sr=8-1

I know Toro's a solid brand, but what about Murray? Does anyone know anything about the brand and how the model above compares with the Toro? There's also a lot of specs, too, which I have no idea how to compare. For example:

cc's: Murray 190cc, Toro 141cc
cycles: Murray 4 cycles, Toro 2 cycles

Does this make sense to anyone? Any recommendations/experiences/thoughts?

EDIT: And just to make things even more confusing, how do these compare to the Toro PowerClear 421Q, which appears to have a different engine than the 210R?
http://toro.com/home/snowthrowers/gassinglestage/421Q.html

I must rather shamefacedly that I did, indeed, put the gas in my wife's car - it's older by a few years, has a larger gas tank, blah blah blah. In short, it didn't seem to hurt anything. :)

But now I have an issue with the Toro 221Q I was hoping you guys could help me with. In short, it won't start. This is what I did:
- Premixed some fresh gas from the pump with the Amsoil Saber Outboard oil, at around a ratio of 80:1, plus some fuel stabilizer
- Filled up the tank with about a gallon of the premixed fuel
- Turned the ignition key to the start position
- Turned the choke lever all the way to the right
- Pushed the primer button twice, holding it in for about a second each time
- Tried pulling on the cord

Nothing. I must have pulled something like 10 times, but the engine never started or even sounded like it was catching. I then tried another push of the primer button and more pulls, but still nothing.

I closed the choke, waited a couple of hours, and then opened the choke and tried again, pushing the primer button again once after it failed to start. This time, the engine seemed to catch for just a split second in mid-pull, but almost immediately therafter died - at that brief moment, a puff of smoke came out of the engine. Same on a subsequent pull, then it just went back to plain not starting.

Is there some kind of special startup procedure I need to go through to start it up the first time or something I did wrong?

billin - sounds like you did everything right, and these units usually start in about 1/2 a pull. The only thing I can think is that maybe it got flooded...but even then... They recommend 2 pumps of the primer but you really only need one pump (or none). Does it feel slightly more difficult to pull? You could pull the spark plug out (19mm socket) and then pull the starter a bunch of times to clear out any gas in the cylinder (if indeed it is flooded), or let it sit a bit longer and pull away at it. If it turned over briefly then you know it has spark and fuel.

superbuick wrote:
Thanks for the reassurance superbuick - I kept going back over the instructions (few as they are) thinking I'd missed something or messed something up. I'm not really sure if it was more difficult to pull after priming; the resistance seemed pretty consistent throughout. I'm going to give it another try after work tonight, first without priming and then maybe only priming it once. I'm not sure about removing the spark plug, as I'm not too mechanically inclined, but if I still can't start it tonight, I'm definitely open to trying!

Spark plug removal is pretty easy and I can walk you through it via IM/email if you want. The other option (albeit kinda silly) is to just return it and say you're not satisfied and want a new unit. I've gotta say in all honesty though, these units are VERY reliable when it comes to starting and running.

It doesn't happen to have a fuel shutoff valve does it?  Not sure if a 2 cycle can mount it to a place you can ever get to it.
Ok, maybe that is kind of dumb, don't think diaphram carbs need them...

Also does it have any kind of dead man switch like a lawnmower?

I don't think my old MTD single had either, but maybe Toro has something.

Thanks for the offer, SuperBuick! I got home too late last night to try again with starting the snowblower, but if it fails again, I may very well take you up on your offer to tutor me through the sparkplug removal process. Unfortunately, it's near-impossible for me to return the snowblower since I ordered it online from a place several states over - the price to be paid for cutting nearly 25% off the price - but, truthfully, I've heard so many good things about the 221Q now that I don't want to return it. At worst, I'll take it to a Toro service center and let them work it out.

Shryp, thanks for your reply. I don't think it has a fuel shutoff valve...? At least, I never saw one mentioned in the manual. The dead man switch on the snowblower only engages / disengages the auger as I understand it, and shouldn't affect the engine's running.

I trust once I get the Toro running, it'll be fine. My brother, who owns a Honda snowblower, talks about how it took him something like 10-15 pulls to start it up the first time, but in the years since it's always started up in a pull or two. Hopefully a similar situation here.... I'll post again once I've given it another try.

Thanks, guys!

Billin - I made a how-to for you.

Let me know if you need more detail or pics or whatever.

No doubt you'll have good luck with that unit. There is a reason why so many of those Toro singles from 20 - 30 years ago are still being used today. For reference, the 221 does not have a fuel shutoff.

Single stage snowblowers never came on my radar screen; I always thought they were a smaller, less expensive alternative with less power and capability. However, looking at two stage units I've found that while smaller, all but the smallest singe stage snowblowers cost as much as comparably sized or even larger two-stage units.

My curiosity peaked, what is the advantage of choosing a single stage 2-stroke snow blower over a comparably priced two stage with the same scoop width and a larger 4-cycle engine?

Speed of operation, huge maneuverability advantages, less maintenance, less weight, less space, clearing right to the pavement.

In the deepest of snows, the 2 stage wins, but everywhere/everytime else, a GOOD single stage is faster and easier to use. (key word being GOOD, because there are lots of crappy ones out there and that is where single stage units get a bad name/reputation for poor performance)

Here are some youtube links showing the capability of GOOD single stages.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZC4z8x8W4g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGtEJxemf3g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEHK2VO6jrc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_O6g_uHAA4&feature=related

superbuick wrote:

Thanks for the reply.

I can see the manuverability, less weight, less space. How does it 'clear right down to the pavement'?  Not sure about less maintenance; two strokes have always seemed a bit of a pain to me.

In the first two videos they were using only a portion of the small 20" scoop with a bit of back and forth rocking on what seemed to be 8-10" of powder. Is that typical?