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buttlint


Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Points: 791

Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Original Message   Apr 26, 2005 8:10 pm
Hey guys..
This may or may not be news too anyone....but Briggs will now be supplying Toro with 2-cycle engines for thier snowblowers.
Whether these engines are just copies of the R-teks...I dont know.
Does Briggs have its own 2-cycles that they will use?..I dont know.
Does anybody care?...I dont know.  (Just dont turn me over too the OPE police!)
Please excuse the quality of the letter.....You guys make of it what you will.
Letter.
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Termy


Location: Washington
Joined: Oct 24, 2004
Points: 960

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #1   Apr 26, 2005 8:20 pm
The question I have is how good are they? Before I make a purchasing decision, I like to know the quality of these engines and how long they are supposed to last under normal TLC care.


Marshall


As Long As There Are Tests, There Will Be Prayer In Public Schools. ;- )

Joined: Sep 16, 2002
Points: 7730

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #2   Apr 26, 2005 8:29 pm
Lint, thanks buddy. You always have something good to add!

It will be yet one more snowblower that has an engine warranted by the engine manufacturer. Do you think these will be on the single stages only?
This message was modified Apr 26, 2005 by Marshall
robmints


Joined: May 13, 2003
Points: 4691

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #3   Apr 26, 2005 8:33 pm
Care? Not sure. Interesting? To me, Yes. Lots.

Thanks. I have had people tell me Tecumseh was making them, and Toro was making them in Windam. Now some of the truth seems to be coming out. Two year old NOS engines made by people that knew they were losing thier jobs. No wonder it was such a secret. The stuff Toro wants out from under Briggs gets in exchange for being able to make the engines in the future.

Am I too cynical?
AJace


I have an Ariens 926 Pro because I like Orange



Location: Near Gettysburg
Joined:
Points: 969

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #4   Apr 26, 2005 11:31 pm
Does anyone know if these are Briggs snow engines?
This message was modified Apr 26, 2005 by AJace


Ariens 926 DLE Professional; Toro S200; Craftsman LT1000, Echo ES-230;

Marshall


As Long As There Are Tests, There Will Be Prayer In Public Schools. ;- )

Joined: Sep 16, 2002
Points: 7730

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #5   Apr 26, 2005 11:35 pm
AJace, yes, only snow engines.
AZinOH


Those who accept self-deception will perish by it.
Shakespeare said "to thine own self be true".


Joined: Nov 25, 2004
Points: 189

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #6   Apr 27, 2005 4:10 pm
Lint, I care and thanks for the heads-up. Please pass along any more info that comes your way.

Robmints...NOS engine? please explain.

Thanks, AZ

Snowblower...Toro Power Max 726te 2004

Lawn tractor...AYP w/ 14.5 Briggs-42in 2000

robmints


Joined: May 13, 2003
Points: 4691

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #7   Apr 27, 2005 4:46 pm
AZinOH wrote:
Robmints...NOS engine? please explain.

Thanks, AZ


New Old Stock, AZ. Just that they are new, in stock, but old.
buttlint


Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Points: 791

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #8   Apr 27, 2005 6:44 pm
Rob....Are you too cynical?
I'll show you cynical, buddy!

So lets take a flying leap into the world of cynicism.
An anonamous sales rep that works for a big-ole orange and white chainsaw company, that comes from a country that we had a war with in the the 1940's and produces over priced junk tells me:
The reason that his company are producing 4-cycle engines too put in their equiptment, is because the OPE industry is subject too the same EPA laws as the auto industry. That is...there is like a "fleet average" for emissions. They are making these cleaner 4-cycle engines so that they can still sell the 2-cycle stuff that the people really want. (The "greenies" will buy the clean stuff too offset the dirty engines that cant meet the higher standards.) That way everyone is happy....The greenies can now cut down trees, knowing that they arent fowling the air.... and the whogivesa$hit crowd can now cut them down faster with a saw that wont wear thier arms out.
Win! Win! (As sales reps like too say.)

So lets extend this logic too Toro and Briggs.
Jump back 2 years when Toro had too drop the Duroforce engine because it wouldnt meet tightening emissions. (I bet Toro wasnt really happy too loose that Lawnboy market segment!)
 I may be way off track here, but.......The 2-cycle R-teks look and smell a lot like a Duraforce too me? (Please dont ask for detailed analysis on that perception.)
So...Toro is not stupid. If they cant clean up the R-tek too meet future epa regs they are SOL. There goes the SnowCommanders, 3650's and 2450's. (People like them!)
YIKES!!! What's Toro going too do? Start developing a new line of small and light 4-cycle machines and just dump another popular 2-cycle machine that people buy and buy....like the Lawnboy, Duraforce?

As long as we are careening down this conspiracy highway.....What does Briggs get out of this?
They dont have a single stage, 2-stroke engine. (They tried once.)
They dont have a premier brand name like Toro as a customer.
All Briggs has too do is meet the epa requirements for the fleet and not just for one 2-cycle engine. Perhaps they have room under the epa "salary cap".

Remember though....This "epa salary cap conspiracy theroy" was presented too me buy a Saurkraut eating, saw selling weasle that still wont admit too me that my flat times were reduced by the goose-stepping company that he works for. (Cynicism is good for the soul.)
Emmo


Joined: May 22, 2003
Points: 1065

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #9   Apr 27, 2005 7:01 pm
Well done Watson!.........er buttlint!

Certainly sounds MORE than plausible to me.....a win/win no doubt!

Its nice to have  insiders among us!
Termy


Location: Washington
Joined: Oct 24, 2004
Points: 960

Re: Briggs making Toro 2 strokes.
Reply #10   Apr 27, 2005 8:38 pm
buttlint wrote:
Rob....<span style="font-style: italic;">Are you too cynical? </span><BR>I'll show you cynical, buddy!<BR><BR>So lets take a flying leap into the world of cynicism.<BR>An anonamous sales rep that works for a big-ole orange and white chainsaw company, that comes from a country that we had a war with in the the 1940's and produces over priced junk tells me:<BR>The reason that his company are producing 4-cycle engines too put in their equiptment, is because the OPE industry is subject too the same EPA laws as the auto industry. That is...there is like a &quot;fleet average&quot; for emissions. They are making these cleaner 4-cycle engines so that they can still sell the 2-cycle stuff that the people really want. (The &quot;greenies&quot; will buy the clean stuff too offset the dirty engines that cant meet the higher standards.) That way everyone is happy....The greenies can now cut down trees, knowing that they arent fowling the air.... and the whogivesa$hit crowd can now cut them down faster with a saw that wont wear thier arms out.<BR>Win! Win! (As sales reps like too say.)<BR><BR>So lets extend this logic too Toro and Briggs.<BR>Jump back 2 years when Toro had too drop the Duroforce engine because it wouldnt meet tightening emissions. (I bet Toro wasnt really happy too loose that Lawnboy market segment!)<BR> I may be way off track here, but.......The 2-cycle R-teks look and smell a lot like a Duraforce too me? (Please dont ask for detailed analysis on that perception.)<BR>So...Toro is not stupid. If they cant clean up the R-tek too meet future epa regs they are SOL. There goes the SnowCommanders, 3650's and 2450's. (People like them!)<BR>YIKES!!! What's Toro going too do? Start developing a new line of <span style="font-style: italic;">small</span> and<span style="font-style: italic;"> light</span> 4-cycle machines and just dump another popular 2-cycle machine that people buy and buy....like the Lawnboy, Duraforce?<BR><BR>As long as we are careening down this conspiracy highway.....What does Briggs get out of this?<BR>They dont have a single stage, 2-stroke engine. (They tried once.)<BR>They dont have a premier brand name like Toro as a customer. <BR>All Briggs has too do is meet the epa requirements for the <span style="font-style: italic;">fleet</span> and not just for <span style="font-style: italic;">one</span> 2-cycle engine. Perhaps they have room under the epa &quot;salary cap&quot;.<BR><BR>Remember though....This &quot;<span style="font-style: italic;">epa salary cap conspiracy theroy</span>&quot; was presented too me buy a Saurkraut eating, saw selling weasle that still wont admit too me that my flat times were reduced by the goose-stepping company that <span style="font-style: italic;">he</span> works for. (Cynicism is good for the soul.)


I like the way you put that all together lint. I learned alot from that post and now I have a better understanding of marketing ploys that are out there. Did I ever tell you about the Scotts mower manufactured by John Deer? And when you pulled up the model number on it, it came up as a Murray? Great Post!


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