Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I was reading about the Clarence impeller improvement online today. It attaches a rubber gasket to each impeller blade ceiling it against impeller housing. Most who tried it seemed to report outstanding results especially with heavy wet snow. The only place where some reported it may not be effective were on units, such as the Honda, that reportedly have very tight clearances tween the impeller blades and the housing from the factory.

Ariens snowblowers are well-known for their high-capacity high capacity. Well most large snowblowers at 12 inch diameter impellers, the Ariens have 14 inch. That is over 16% faster speed at the end of the impeller blade. Does that give them a decisive edge?

So the question is: how important is the design of the impeller to the overall system performance? Are tight clearances between the impeller and it's housing critical? If so, which brands have the tightest ones? Is the diameter of the impeller critical? If so, did he Ariens and others with large impellers have a distinct advantage? The Clarence kit is inexpensive if you can install it yourself. Should everybody be installing these kits? TheToro has a unique impeller housing. Partially plastic, it has a return for excess snow to be returned to scoop. The effective Toro and edge or is it a disadvantage?

Toro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTAAaT_sFss

I have no idea how those would pair up. From the pictures it looks like the Honda has a 14" auger with 12" impeller. With similar size scoops and a slight power advantage to the Ariens, the Ariens would probably move a bit more snow.

 

 

Up to about 2005 the Honda in side by side distance and throughput tests beats all US machines, Toro, Ariens, Simplicity, Snapper, Murray and MTD.   Somewhere around 2005 or a bit later Ariens increased their auger and impeller speed to 1300. 

 

Your 10hp MTD was probably running at 1180 or 1200 on the impeller.

 

Current Toro’s have the following for auger and impeller speeds.  Note: the 3300 is their factory setting.

Numbers supplied by the factory:

Impeller speed (3300 X 3.000/8.062) = 1228 RPM

Impeller tip speed - 3893 ft/min.

Auger speed - 123 RPM

 

Last year Toro offered some models with the Subaru engine which run at 4000 RPM so will give a boost to the above numbers.

 

The units at the top of my list are the 28" Toro 1128, 30" Deere 1330SE, and the 30" Ariens Deluxe with Subaru engine

 

An Ariens runs at 1300 with the stock engine at 3600.  With a 4000 RPM Subaru it would get a boost. 

Given your clearing area and lifespan of the MTD you could get away with a basic HD Ariens which would probalby easily last you 20 years.  

DavidNJ wrote:
What's your point?? Are you saying that the mass flow rate is low?  How did you arrive at q dot?  Are you eyes calibrated to determine density, velocity, distance, and velocity decay through youtube videos?

Snowblowers are inherently slow by nature as a trade off to allow displacement of snow to another location.  You mentioned that you have been clearing your driveway with a MTD snowblower for 14 years, at least you would have a clue.

Even a snowblower attached to 90 hp PTO of a Deere tractor is crawling into a 3 foot drift.  If you want  to see things more snow fast, get a snowplow.  But I doubt any plow with equivalent 9hp engine will displace same amount of snow weight 50 feet in the same time period as a snowblower.

DavidNJ wrote:
Yes, there is a reason.  Three , actually.  They can afford it, they want it, and they have long driveways.

trouts2 wrote:
You are right, performance among modern snowblowers today are fairly even with similar bucket width and engine power.  Honda no longer dominates distance and throughput.  It is not difficult to reverse engineer and duplicate why Honda does so well.

trouts2 wrote:

The Ariens also has a 14" impeller, so at 1300 rpm that would be 4750fpm and if the Subaru is 10% faster it would be 5300fp@4000rpm. What is the Honda? MTD has a 16" impeller in some Club Cadet and Sears models.

The impeller issue is that snow removal has three qualities: how long does it take, how much effort it takes, and how good a job it does. The impeller is part of the first goal, as is scoop size and auger performance. Steering, is part of the second. Throw and scrapper technology part of the third. Adjusting the scoop can be part of all three.

The Honda 'advantage' may be the hydrostatic drive. Whey are a single unit that internally have a variable flow pump and a fixed flow motor. A lever adjusts a cam on the pump changing its output voume per input revolution. Excess flow uis bypassed internally. On friction disc models slippage is possible but unintentional. In both the impeller is run off  a fixed reduction from the engine. As a result, in a hydrostatic drive changes in resistance shouldn't affect impeller speed, but in a friction disc they may. The hydrostatic drive may also allow a greater reduction in speed, The slow movement of the Hondas may be part of their strength; reviewers praise them, usually tracked, for getting through big EDD piles or plowing up hills. Both could be the result of the slow movement speed and constant impeller speed.

Note: Husqvarna has a 30" hydrostatic drive model. However, the auguer and impeller are both 12". It has left/right free wheel 'power steering' and the B&S 342cc Max engine.

trouts2 wrote:

The Ariens also has a 14" impeller, so at 1300 rpm that would be 4750fpm and if the Subaru is 10% faster it would be 5300fp@4000rpm. What is the Honda? MTD has a 16" impeller in some Club Cadet and Sears models.

The impeller issue is that snow removal has three qualities: how long does it take, how much effort it takes, and how good a job it does. The impeller is part of the first goal, as is scoop size and auger performance. Steering, is part of the second. Throw and scrapper technology part of the third. Adjusting the scoop can be part of all three.

The Honda 'advantage' may be the hydrostatic drive. Whey are a single unit that internally have a variable flow pump and a fixed flow motor. A lever adjusts a cam on the pump changing its output voume per input revolution. Excess flow uis bypassed internally. On friction disc models slippage is possible but unintentional. In both the impeller is run off  a fixed reduction from the engine. As a result, in a hydrostatic drive changes in resistance shouldn't affect impeller speed, but in a friction disc they may. The hydrostatic drive may also allow a greater reduction in speed, The slow movement of the Hondas may be part of their strength; reviewers praise them, usually tracked, for getting through big EDD piles or plowing up hills. Both could be the result of the slow movement speed and constant impeller speed.

Note: Husqvarna has a 30" hydrostatic drive model. However, the auguer and impeller are both 12". It has left/right free wheel 'power steering' and the B&S 342cc Max engine.

trouts2 wrote:

The Ariens also has a 14" impeller, so at 1300 rpm that would be 4750fpm and if the Subaru is 10% faster it would be 5300fp@4000rpm. What is the Honda? MTD has a 16" impeller in some Club Cadet and Sears models.

The impeller issue is that snow removal has three qualities: how long does it take, how much effort it takes, and how good a job it does. The impeller is part of the first goal, as is scoop size and auger performance. Steering, is part of the second. Throw and scrapper technology part of the third. Adjusting the scoop can be part of all three.

Total mass or mass/volume movement is the limiting factor in speed. The Honda may be clearing, but is it clearing fast? When the snow is lighter, the wider scoops would also make it faster, as then the impeller isn't the limiting factor.

The Honda 'advantage' may be the hydrostatic drive. Whey are a single unit that internally have a variable flow pump and a fixed flow motor. A lever adjusts a cam on the pump changing its output voume per input revolution. Excess flow uis bypassed internally. On friction disc models slippage is possible but unintentional. In both the impeller is run off  a fixed reduction from the engine. As a result, in a hydrostatic drive changes in resistance shouldn't affect impeller speed, but in a friction disc they may. The hydrostatic drive may also allow a greater reduction in speed, The slow movement of the Hondas may be part of their strength; reviewers praise them, usually tracked, for getting through big EDD piles or plowing up hills. Both could be the result of the slow movement speed and constant impeller speed.

Note: Husqvarna has a 30" hydrostatic drive model. However, the auguer and impeller are both 12". It has left/right free wheel 'power steering' and the B&S 342cc Max engine.

We measured the John Deere today using a 480frame/sec exposure. It is nearly exactly 20 rev/sec, 1200 rpm.

DavidNJ wrote:

Who's we?

Wife and me. Did you think it was a CIA operation? Or in a ME laboratory in the basement of building 2 at MIT?