Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

I was reading about the Clarence impeller improvement online today. It attaches a rubber gasket to each impeller blade ceiling it against impeller housing. Most who tried it seemed to report outstanding results especially with heavy wet snow. The only place where some reported it may not be effective were on units, such as the Honda, that reportedly have very tight clearances tween the impeller blades and the housing from the factory.

Ariens snowblowers are well-known for their high-capacity high capacity. Well most large snowblowers at 12 inch diameter impellers, the Ariens have 14 inch. That is over 16% faster speed at the end of the impeller blade. Does that give them a decisive edge?

So the question is: how important is the design of the impeller to the overall system performance? Are tight clearances between the impeller and it's housing critical? If so, which brands have the tightest ones? Is the diameter of the impeller critical? If so, did he Ariens and others with large impellers have a distinct advantage? The Clarence kit is inexpensive if you can install it yourself. Should everybody be installing these kits? TheToro has a unique impeller housing. Partially plastic, it has a return for excess snow to be returned to scoop. The effective Toro and edge or is it a disadvantage?

Toro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTAAaT_sFss

DavidNJ wrote:
You are a fine example of an office engineer. You discount real world experience in favor of your text book knowledge. I've seen examples of this my whole life and as a result have a new found understanding of why so called 1st world countries are in so much trouble financially and from a practical standpoint. Someone attempts to inform you that you need to try it before making a judgement call but you refuse to listen and resort to insults.

DavidNJ:

This is a low volume high velocity flow, like a high velocity HVAC air handler like a Unico, SpacePak, or EPS

 

Is that estimate based on the videos?  How can you judge density?

 

I’ve done many –>many<- Honda side by side trials (same day, same conditions) with US machines i.e. Toro, Ariens, Murray and MTD.  The Honda easily beat all other brands of the same horsepower and generally beat machines of higher horsepower.  For similar hp machines the Honda generally beat them distance wise by 10-15 feet.  For throughput while doing this there was no contest.  The Honda could go at a much faster pace.  It easily beat other similar hp machines in throughput and distance.

 

Distance and throughput are not a sole function of impeller diameter.  Throughput and distance are a function of a number of things like, impeller diameter, chute shape, chute angle, intake housing output port size and shape, impeller arm shape, rotational speed of impeller and augers, auger shape & etc. 

 

The posts here are not peer reviewed but it is mostly accepted here and on other forum that Honda is taken as a great quality built high end machine (standard) even by those who see some of Honda’s features or lack of them as a detraction.   Most who believe or accept that unfortunately have not seen or used a Yamaha. 

 

Giocam:

I live in an area that gets hit hard with snow. Honda's are everywhere here and they are awesome machines! The best performance,quality and reliability in the business. Yamaha is the only thing that comes close.

 

Giocam seems to be in an area where he sees a lot of Hondas in use and impressed by them.  His estimate of Honda and Yamaha seems right on the money, although I’d give the edge to Yamaha. 

If horsepower was the measure of equivalence and throw was the measure of performance, who knows.

The Honda clearly is putting a lot of energy into what it throws. It is coming out of the chute fast and hard. However, what you are concerned with is volume/mass not velocity and throw. Throw is more of a safising condition.

The Honda clearly is putting a lot of energy into what it throws. It is coming out of the chute fast and hard. However, what you are concerned with is volume/mass not velocity and throw. Throw is more of a safising condition.

Horsepower is a bit nebulous, since the ratings are different. Displacement/price would be better indicators. Honda wheeled snow blowers are in the $2300-2800 dollar range for widths of 24-28" with the biggest motor being an 270cc OHV 8.5hp/14ft-lb. The closest equivalent in price/size from another manufacturer is maybe the $1900 Toro 1128OXE. Otherwise a 28-30" 305cc Briggs and Stratton.

I'd love to see a video of the 28" $2800 HS928WAS Honda against the $1299 Ariens Deluxe 30", either the 921013 305cc Briggs and Stratton or the 287cc OHC Subaru. It shouldn't even be close, not even counting the Ariens huge advantage in operator interface.

Just for the record, my driveway is 250'x16' circular with an additional 600-1000sqft (out of 1600sqft) of motor pad that is cleared. The plows leave huge, hard EOD piles, which must be cleared an additional 15' to allow mailbox access. The house and shrubbery require a decent throw. The arc puts a significant part of the driveway in a turn. For the past 14 years I've plowed it myself with a 28" MTD with 12" auger and impeller, 16x6.5 tires, and powered by an 11hp Tecumseh.

Although this area has one expensive community after another, and there are maybe nearly 20 dealers plus 3 Home Depots and 2 Lowes within 10 miles, the nearest Honda dealer is 15 miles away.

This Honda info has been moderately interesting; it shows the effect of a high speed impeller. It probably begs the question: what are the impeller speeds of the other models? An interestingly, does the Ariens Deluxe 30" with the Subaru engine (replacing a Techumseh) work differently because the engine runs 10% faster although the gearing is the same.

Like I said, the ariens model which you would want to compare to the hs928 is the st928dlet. They are the upper echelon class of walk behind snowblowers and are the sameish price.

The deluxe with the subaru engine is a good machine but its not in the same class as the honda and higher end ariens. It may better a better value for your money though. But if money is no issue and you want the absolute best, Honda and Yamaha is where its at.

Oh and as for the steering on the honda, its a bit overstated when people say its so hard. Its not. Any average man will handle it no problem, my 70 year old uncle has no issues with it in his driveway which has a pretty steep slope.

DavidNJ wrote:

You are gifted if you can evaluate an engine inferiority or superiority through the sounds of youtube. Or did you mean something else is inferior? I failed to see how there's a correlation between someone's political views/preferences has an influence on their likes or dislikes of a certain brand of snowblower. Enlighten me if you will.

DavidNJ wrote:

The transmission is the only hydrostatic in this class of snowblower. Other brands use friction disc transmission. I don't particularly glorify the hydrostatic transmission as special, but it is unique. It is an expensive $500 price difference compared to a simple and effective friction disc for snowblower application. However, Honda is one of the few snowblower that offer track drive, and their selection of a hydrostatic transmission becomes apparent.

I don't care to comment too much about the engine, as people who have owned GX series engines can chime in about their experiences. Modern B&S are quite good, but they are beginning to play catch up. They are good value and reliable.

You say that it looks SLOW, that's your perspective. Please show us videos where every other brands is faster so that we can calibrate to your perspective. From experience, I know a lot of us do go slower through deep snow to prevent spillover or to maintain decent throwing distance. Now, you seemed to alluded to knowledge in fluid dynamics from some to be disclosed university, then I think you may recall choked flow. People without knowledge to this textbook phenomenon miraculously adapt their snowblower speed to get the best performance out of their machine. Incredible!!!

I don't believe that Honda is under-designed nor they have misleading advertising, I could be wrong. Expensive, yes. Over priced, no. Take a trip to your local Honda OPE dealer and evaluate the design of the HS1132, and tell me where and how it is under-designed. We all can check MSRP and spec sheets online, but design evaluations needs to be seen in person.

That "17 year old" seemed to do pretty well handling that snowblower considering the snow conditions and his size. If the snowblower bucket is half in snow, guess which way the snowblower will turn towards? It doesn't matter which brand of snowblower, all of them will wander and not go straight. If your snowblower can continue going straight without intervention from the operator, then you must be sitting on an awesome machine.

DavidNJ wrote:

I speculate that Honda does not have "steering" due to the fact that the same frame has to accommodate both wheeled and track models. In addition, there also needs to be two separate hydrostatic motors to drive the wheels/track independently, and controller unit, similar to zero turn lawn mowers. This would drive up the cost and complexity that few of us can afford. Honda does make higher models available in Canada that does steer, battery start, and have electric chute direction and angle adjustment. But all of this comes at a price of over $9000.

I suggest you continue your posting without reverting to political, religious, and ethnic innuendos. I'm not trying to enforce your political correctness, but you will find your arguments will lends more credibility if you don't vent your views online.

giocam wrote:

You want to compare a track Ariens with a 342 against a wheeled Honda with a 270cc? A rather strange comparison; how many people are buying tracked snow throwers? In NJ they are as rare as an Obama supporter in a Glenn Beck audience.

Everything in the world is built to a price, even the most exotic Formula One car. Bob Gates has a cute term for defense systems that are great but too expensive, he calls them 'exquisite'. There is no reason for a home owner to buy a 'Professional' Ariens unless you wanted a larger width. Even the tracked models are available as a Deluxe or Platinum Deluxe.

I have no idea how those would pair up. From the pictures it looks like the Honda has a 14" auger with 12" impeller. With similar size scoops and a slight power advantage to the Ariens, the Ariens would probably move a bit more snow. The Ariens would have a price advantage and a huge ease of use advantage.

The better comparison, and the more relevant, would be between the 28" wheeled unit and a 30" Ariens or 28" Toro.

The 30" Deluxe would have a 305cc or last year's Subaru 287cc (better than the Honda in every conceivable way). Slightly wider auger. It would add a lever for free wheeling the left wheel to aid turning. And be $1500 less. It should match or exceed the Honda's snow removal.

The $1900 1128 Toro would be 28" with a smaller 12" impeller but a larger 342cc motor. However, the auger has a 'trick' housing to discharge residual snow back to the scoop. They say it reduces the load on the impeller allowing it to apply more force to the throw through the chute. The only way to really know would be lab tests. It has left and right freewheel levers that would let your 70 year old AUNT use it. The chute changes direction and deflection with an easy to use lever. It would probably match or slightly exceed the Honda in snow removal rate while being an order of magnitude easier to use.

I'm still trying to resolve some unknowns. The units at the top of my list are the 28" Toro 1128, 30" Deere 1330SE, and the 30" Ariens Deluxe with Subaru engine.

Who cares about impeller performance anyway. Overall machine performance is most important. My unit is a 10 year old Ariens 924108 . Iv cleared 4 - 5 blocks of snow in 2 feet plus conditions of heavy wet snow . Who cares if it doesn't throw snow 50 feet. I'm not trying to brake a window. 30 feet is plenty. All the guys on u tube with 3- 4 thousand dollar Hondas  throwing fluffy snow in the trees is crazy. My low dollar Ariens machine can do that. Show me a high dollar honda throw heavy wet snow 50 feet. I paid $800 for my Ariens- Save your money by ARIENS. My baby NEVER let me down