Outdoor Power Equipment (Lawn Mowers, Snow Blowers, Chain Saws and more) Discussions

Here are the facts I can find:

 

Model	Toro	Craftsman
Price	$1,294	$1,190	(all taxes, extended warranties included)
Warranty	2 yrs	5 yrs	(both in-home / in-home pickup)
CR rated	# 1	# 4
Free wheel steering	Y	Y
Horsepower	8 hp	9 hp
Wheel Size	15 “	16 “

 

Everything else (clearing path, etc) seem equal.  Normally I would jump on the Toro, based on its superior rating, not only for this model, but for many of their other models that have consistently done well in CR ratings.  The only caveat is, in a big storm (15” or more) does anyone think the extra 1 hp of the Craftsman will make a difference.  Two people I work with have Ariens (hard to believe I don’t disclose everything about my life in one post so this fact might shock some people).  One loves his 8.5hp Ariens and says it is more than adequate even in 15” storms, the other disagreed and traded in the 8.5 hp Ariens for an 11hp Ariens.  The “end of the driveway” was the argument for the latter co-worker getting a bigger machine.  Both co-workers say their wives could not use their Ariens due to handling is difficult (especially getting it out and in the garage where the pavement is dry).  So for me, the Ariens is not a product I want to consider.

 

I’m curious as to your opinions specifically about the hp between the Toro and the Craftsman.  Is it necessary to get a bigger machine (I live in upstate NY, but not in Syracuse or Buffalo – near Albany, where we get about 60” year in total snowfall). 

Hi...


..."The only caveat is, in a big storm (15” or more) does anyone think the extra 1 hp of the Craftsman will make a difference.  "...

Can't say without using both side-by-side in the same snow...

It's not just the HP that affects performance... this is only one part of it...
A lot of the machine's design and components used can/do affect it a lot...

For example...
Quote from BCS AMERICA:

"WHY INVEST IN BCS
 I. PERFORMANCE In virtually all outdoor, walk behind, power equipment sold in the US, power is transferred from the engine to the transmission by a belt. At its best, a belt loses 15% of the engine’s power in the transfer. In reality, the percentage is much higher. Every BCS tractor, by contrast, utilizes a spring-loaded, double cone clutch to transfer the engine’s power. The clutch loses less than 3% of the engine’s power. Because it is self-adjusting, the clutch maintains this high degree of efficiency through decades of use. Many manufacturers couple their belt(s) to transmissions that are nothing more than more belts and/or chain drive mechanisms. BCS combines its clutch with super-efficient transmissions of shafts and gears. "...

Dave...

Dave_in_CT,

Does BCS make snow throwers for anyone?

   

I don't know if BCS manufactures for anyone else...
I really really doubt a standalone snowblower would be one if they did...

They make professional grade 2-wheel tractors that use a variety of attachments...
like...
rototiller...
snowthrower...
brush cutter...
chipper/shredder...
and lots more available from them & other manufacturers...

I have an older BCS 8 HP 2-wheel tractor...
...the single-stage snowthrower attachment... and other attachments...
Here it is in action...






Their website is www.bcsamerica.com

Be ready for "price sticker shock"...   


Dave...

Hmmmm.... the picture was here... gone now...

Buy the Toro and don't look back. My toro, with 8HP, threw more snow much further than a neighbor's Arien that had 11HP.

The Joystick alone is worth the difference in price not to mention the re sale if that ever becomes an issue.

Remember though, my opinion is worth what you paid for it.

Jerry

SnowRemover wrote:

The difference is quite literally nothing. They are the SAME Tecumseh engine. It is all marketing and stickers.

For example: The engine in question has a dyno rating of say 8.4 horsepower. So, Toro looks at it and says "let's call it 8 hp". Ariens says " close to 8.5 so that is what we will call it". Sears looks at it and says " well it is more than 8 hp and we know that horsepower sells so lets order the 9.0 hp stickers." Same engine. Different perspectives. Bottom line....... look at the other features NOT the horsepower rating of similar machines.

Ken
:)

I just called a local dealer who says he has two Toro 828LXE's in stock.  He assembles them as soon as he gets them to make sure they work and will drop the price to $1,250 (with tax it jumps past $1,340 - but the $50 is worth it to buy local).

That said, is there anything I should look at to make absolutely SURE it is not a used product.

Thanks!

This isn't completely reliable but look at the skid plates and other moving parts for paint chips. If he's a Toro dealer and it's this years model the chances of getting a used one are very slim. If it's been moved and tested chances are the skid plates will have a little paint scraped anyway. The rest should be pristine. Also give it the sniff test to see if it has that new snowblower smell.

You're going to love it!

Jerry

SnowRemover wrote

There are 2 basic ways of measuring horsepower.  At the crankshaft or flywheel and on the ground. I dont think one hp would present a noticible difference except possibly in conditions that max out a machine. even then with all the factors involved  there could be no noticable difference.  Weight of a machine, type of drive (belt, chain or gears) tire or track size. its entirely feasible that a higher horsepower machine would actually have less usable horsepower to propel the machine and power attachments.

a good example of this is some years ago i had 2 tractors rated at the same pto horsepower (a case and an allis chalmers) it would be a very long post if i went into specifics about each, but pulling identical tools behind them the case would work 10 to 15% more ground in the same time period using approximately the same amount of fuel. presumably the reason for this was more usable horsepower on the ground, therefore more horsepower available to work.

it would be interesting to take say 10 identical engines (10 hp briggs for instance) and dyno all of them to see how close to actual hp raitings they all were.i woudlnt be at all surprised if there was as much as 10% difference between all of them.

  SP,

         I totaly agree with you, it is Hp at the wheels that counts!!

                                                            Fred

When I read it earlier the freewheel steering fields were stars.

I can't give you the cold hard facts you seem to want. The only thing I can offer is a personal anecdote.

I own the track drive version of the Craftsman (888500) you are considering. I would not buy another one, or under most curcumstances, recommend it or one similar.
The machine is fine on our typicall snows but struggles more and more as the snow gets wetter and wetter to the point of operating better as a plow than a snowblower. I have owned and used other machines and for the most part the premium brands mentioned are far superior in difficut conditions. It is only my opinion, take it or leave it.